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Does anyone know if MIDI channel changes support CC dynamics in Notion 5?
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by notion_admin on Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:16 am
I am trying to get this into the support capabilities for Custom Rules. It is a necessity and I hope it gets in soon.

-Josh
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by phillipcartwright on Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:55 pm
Thanks for the reply. Dynamics control for other libraries is difficult if not possible across multiple techniques without this functionality.
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by phillipcartwright on Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:03 am
I have to ask, will this be addressed in version 5, or will I have to pay for a bug fix which was first identified in version 3?
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by craigsnoke on Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:27 pm
Hello, I've been looking at Notion 5 and was just about to pull the trigger and purchase. I want to understand this issue first because I believe it would affect me. I would be using Notion 5 with Miroslav Philharmonik, which uses instrument presets with different articulations spread across different channels in each VSTi instance. Does this issue mean that I wouldn't be able to control the dynamics/volume with MIDI CC data across channel changes for each instrument?

Notion 5 - Mac OS 10.13 - 2015 MacBook Pro 16gb RAM SSD - Miroslav Philharmonik 1/2 - SampleTank 3
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by fabiobiolcati1 on Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:20 pm
@ craigsnoke

You will be able to control the dynamics/volume with MIDI CC data across channel changes for each instrument.

Eg. Your Violins I will be spread on different channels into a single MP instance, one channel per articulation — up to 16.
Rules for MP will detect what articulation is in use and tell MP to switch to the slot that contains the appropriate patch.
Dynamics/volume data will be applied to the patch that is sounding at that moment.

If I am right, Phillip is asking for dynamic driven channel switching (I see LASS works this way, eg: sustain is 0 to 10, pizzicato 11 to 20 and so on…)

Hope it helps.

(Hope I'm right).

———————
Fabio Biolcati
Notion5
VSL SE 1 & 1+; 2 & 3 SE Strings
GPO4
2.4 GHz Intel Core Duo iMac
4GB RAM
10.11.4 El Capitan OSX
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by royelwooten on Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:29 pm
I am aware of the issue and the reason for wanting it.

-Admin
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by phillipcartwright on Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:36 pm
fabiobiolcati1 wrote@You will be able to control the dynamics/volume with MIDI CC data across channel changes for each instrument.


It kinda works. Kinda doesn't. See the attached picture. The MIDI activity is color coded based on channels. You'll see that there are blips in channel two when dynamics change, but it's not continues like channel 1 (instead, channel 1 keep getting the continuous MIDI information). Note that the bars on the bottom are for CC 01 (mod wheel).

ChannelTest.jpg


Here's my rules file:
Code: Select all
<rule-set version="1">

<rules>

<dynamic-map id="VELO">
     <dynamic dynamic="pppp" value="0"/>
     <dynamic dynamic="ppp" value="30"/>
     <dynamic dynamic="pp" value="40"/>
     <dynamic dynamic="p" value="60"/>
     <dynamic dynamic="mp" value="80"/>
     <dynamic dynamic="mf" value="90"/>
     <dynamic dynamic="f" value="100"/>
     <dynamic dynamic="ff" value="110"/>
     <dynamic dynamic="fff" value="120"/>
     <dynamic dynamic="ffff" value="127"/>
</dynamic-map>

<dynamic-map id="HAIR">
     <dynamic dynamic="pppp" value="0"/>
     <dynamic dynamic="ppp" value="30"/>
     <dynamic dynamic="pp" value="40"/>
     <dynamic dynamic="p" value="60"/>
     <dynamic dynamic="mp" value="80"/>
     <dynamic dynamic="mf" value="90"/>
     <dynamic dynamic="f" value="100"/>
     <dynamic dynamic="ff" value="110"/>
     <dynamic dynamic="fff" value="120"/>
     <dynamic dynamic="ffff" value="127"/>
</dynamic-map>

<setup>
     <velocity-map id="VELO"/>
     <hairpin-map id="HAIR"/>
     <hairpin-cc value="1"/>
</setup>

<rule remark="Edit Remark..." enabled="true">
     <if condition="under-slur"/>
     <channel-change channel="2"/>
</rule>

<rule remark="Edit Remark..." enabled="true">
     <if technique="norm"/>
     <channel-change channel="1"/>
</rule>

</rules>
</rule-set>
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by phillipcartwright on Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:21 am
I gather that Notion 5.1 was released to allow for the new Notion sounds to be bought and used. Regardless, is there any update on this feature request and others presented in this forum and the prior forum?

The issue detailed here was first documented in Notion 3 several years ago. I'm getting a little chapped about this one in particular.
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by lvarodelgado on Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:18 pm
I have the same issue, I think that this "limitation" must be considered a bug because CC data is closely related to program change and user rules.
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by shanecoombs on Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:22 pm
This is a problem that has existed since at least Notion 3, and upon returning to use after a few years I'm rather surprised it's not yet been fixed.

Essentially, Notion will send CC data over only the default channel for your stave (which is usually channel 1). This means that if you're using something like one of East West's keyswitch patches, you might not have too many problems since it's only one channel being used. On the other hand, if you set up a stave to send to a VST with different patches on different channels (like the EWQLSO "full" presets that Notion comes with) then when you have an articulation or technique change the channel, Notion will not send CC data to that new channel.

It can be a big problem.

In any case, there IS a workaround I've found which, depending on the libraries you use, can be fairly unobtrusive. When you get to a point where an articulation or technique sends over a different channel, hit Shift+I. To bring up the "Change Instrument" dialogue. You will see a pull down menu that says "Default Channel." Click this and choose the channel that your new articulation sends on, and then click OK. It will then let you enter this change on the stave just like any technique. When you switch back to the patch using channel one (or any other channel), repeat this and enter that channel.

For some libraries/setups, this may be very tedious and take away the whole convenience and purpose of Notion's auto articulation playback. However, in many cases you won't need to do it too often. For example, I have not really found it particularly annoying to have to deal with using East West libraries because the other than the default sustain patch, most other patches that are used with any frequency are short note articulations which respond only to velocity for dynamics.

So when I'm working with EWQLSO, I only really need to use the Shift+I method when I am using a hairpin over a lyrical or expressive sustain variant. Staccato, Marcato, Pizzicato, etc. don't need it. Tremolo and trills do, but these are much less frequently used articulations so although you'd need to use the Shift+I method for any hairpins over them, that doesn't happen often.

It's slightly worse when using the Hollywood Orchestra patches, because it's necessary to use Shift+I for any slurs because I use the main sustain patch on channel 1 and the legato patch on channel 2. However, it's ultimately not that bad and otherwise, there aren't too many more times when you need to do it.

They really do need to fix this problem so that it just works as it ought to, but this workaround does exist and it may work for you.
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by andrewpink on Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:19 pm
Hey that is such a useful post...thanks!
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by robertodicorato on Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:04 pm
Finale has the same issue: you can assign different channels to different articulations on a single staff, but any Midi CC will always be sent on a unique predefined channel (ch. #1 by default).

iMac Pro 27", Focusrite Scarlett Solo, OS X HighSierra, Logic Pro, Finale, Notion, VSL, Sonokinetic, LASS etc. 1 mate (Ines), two cats (Oliva and Spritz)
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by phillipcartwright on Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:16 am
Does anyone know if this is fixed in Notion 6?
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by johnnewberry on Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:22 pm
phillipcartwright wroteDoes anyone know if this is fixed in Notion 6?


No. But shanecoombs' workaround IMO does what's needed IMO.
By making an manual "Change instrument... >MIDI channel-change.
https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?p=99397#p99397

An extra step but it allows a method to use with VSTI's that use "multiple MIDI channels" for the various articulations and technique.
An reasonable workaround for me.

,Newberry

:arrow:
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by phillipcartwright on Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:38 am
The workaround is not sufficient as it requires varying sets of rules and tracks to setup. This is horse$#!%.
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by lvarodelgado on Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:53 am
phillipcartwright wroteThe workaround is not sufficient as it requires varying sets of rules and tracks to setup. This is horse$#!%.


I totally agree. It is very tedious, for example in orchestral works when you need to control with high degree the instruments dynamics (not only the note velocity), for small projects may work, but not for professional projects, its a lot of non necessary extra work,

Cheers
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by matthieudulong on Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:47 pm
Hello everyone,

At the moment this function still does not work in Notion on my computer, contrary to what is indicated here (see the last message of Chris): https://answers.presonus.com/3606/send- ... ht-channel.
According to this message this problem has been solved in Notion since February 2017 (Notion 6.1.1 (build 427)) but it does not work for me! It's sad because it prevents some virtual instruments from working better with Notion.

Does it work on your computers or is it just mine that has a problem?

Matthieu D

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by shanecoombs on Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:31 pm
matthieudulong wroteHello everyone,

At the moment this function still does not work in Notion on my computer, contrary to what is indicated here (see the last message of Chris): https://answers.presonus.com/3606/send- ... ht-channel.
According to this message this problem has been solved in Notion since February 2017 (Notion 6.1.1 (build 427)) but it does not work for me! It's sad because it prevents some virtual instruments from working better with Notion.

Does it work on your computers or is it just mine that has a problem?

Matthieu D


Based on my testing, it does work with techniques only. If the rule that triggers the channel change is an articulation or a slur, it does not work. I have tried to do what Christ said to do and let them know by posting here and by replying to the blog post on the build (http://blog.presonus.com/index.php/2019 ... hange-log/) but I have no idea if anyone is paying attention.

If you would also like to report it via whatever channel you think is appropriate that would probably be helpful.

I have for some time been using a workaround which in some ways give much improved functionality over even what it would be if Notion worked correctly, but I still think I'd rather just have Notion work and do it that way since the workaround is slightly clunky and takes at least minor tweaking of the rules for each project.

What I do is to run loopMIDI and set up a bunch of virtual MIDI ins and outs. Fortunately this only needs to be set up once. I load the patches in tracks in a DAW and from Notion set each stave to go to one of the virtual MIDI cables. The magic is this really fantastic, incredible little program called TransMIDIfier. (http://www.bewaryprods.com/software/pro ... sMIDIfier/) This hasn't been updated since 2013 and, at least when I got it a year or two ago cost a small $15 charge, although I can't find anything about that on the website now and it says that it is free so maybe that changed. This video shows a really nice look at the sorts of things it can do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etp8VP_KVBM

I send the Notion out ports to the TransMIDIfier in ports. Instead of channel changes, I have my Notion rules set to send MIDI CC2 and the different articulations and techniques and slurs and so forth each send a different value on CC2. For example, for my EW Hollywood basses Notion sends CC2 value 1 for the sustain patch, CC2 value 2 for the legato patch, CC2 value 3 for the spicatto patch, etc. TransMIDIfier lets you take just about any MIDI data and transform it to anything else, or to use just about any MIDI data to route MIDI data, so it takes CC2 value 1 and causes everything on that input to be sent out on the correct virtual MIDI cable to go to the correct track in the DAW.

Here is a sample of the setup: Image

On the left, you see that my basses are receiving data on port A, channel 1. This is a loopMIDI virtual cable that Notion's external MIDI output A, channel 1, is going to. Then it says that it will route the data based on CC2's value. On the right, you can see a "rule" for each value of CC2. If I sent CC2 value 1, it routes it to a loopMIDI cable called "AOut" on channel one. In my DAW, I have a track which receives data on cable AOut channel 1 and I load the sustain patch. I have a track for cable AOut channel 2 where I load the legato patch, etc.

It works very well, and has some really nice other features. For example, you'll notice the little icon to the right of the triangle on the spicatto patch. This is a "transform." In this case, it takes a CC value and turns it into a velocity. This lets me get around the problem of Notion rules treating dynamics only one way while EW has some patches which work on CC1 and some which work based on velocity. I use a similar feature to let me use some of Hollywood Orchestra's patches where the mod wheel the articulation (e.g., the Violin shorts patches). This helps with one of my method's shortcomings: that Notion has only a limited number of external MIDI outs and that there are only 16 MIDI channels, but sometimes you might have more articulations for a library than that permits.

In any case, as nice as this all is and as useful as a LOT of the other features in TransMIDIfier are, I'd still rather have Notion work as intended.
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by michaelmyers1 on Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You might check out Plogue Bidule. It has powerful MIDI transformation capabilities as well. The basic version is free. The paid version can be used as a VST plug-in, so it may be that it could be used within Notion to transform MIDI real time as it plays back; I can't say for sure, as I've never tried doing that.

iMac (Retina 5K 27", 2019) 3.6 ghz I9 8-core 64 gb RAM Fusion Drive
macOS Mojave 10.14
2 - 500 gb + 1 tb external SSD for sample libraries
Focusrite Forte audio interface
Nektar Panorama P1 control surface
Nektar Impact 49-key MIDI keyboard
Focal CMS40 near-field monitors
JBL LSR310S subwoofer
Notion 6 + Studio One 4 Pro

http://www.tensivity.com

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