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Why when I import an XML file with notes with articulations, Notion places them on the opposite side to the heads of these notes?
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by andrescamposaguilar on Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:32 pm
Sorry here is the image

Articulation.JPG
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by Surf.Whammy on Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:10 pm
I have no idea why importing MusicXML causes articulations to be arranged one way or another, but so what . . . :shock:

THOUGHTS

You can select the affected notes and then use the "Notes" context menu to change the way note articulations are positioned--either as a set of selected notes or one-at-a-time individually . . .

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[NOTE: This is the Default Articulation Side positioning style--context menu and the actual notes . . . ]

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My perspective is that it looks better and is easier to read when articulations are next to notes rather than at the tops of stems, especially for the smaller, not so easy to see types of articulations . . .

The engraving aspect--stylizing and preparing music notation for print--is different from using NOTION to play music in real-time on the fly . . .

If you have specific engraving needs, then for some requirements there are easy context menu options and other tools, but for other requirements it either (a) requires additional work or (b) cannot be done . . .

It's not my fault! :roll:

P. S. My focus is on using NOTION to play music; and toward the goal of keeping everything as simple and realistic as possible, I do not use articulations and dynamics . . .

The reason is that there are two ways that articulations and dynamics are handled by NOTION with respect to natively hosted VSTi virtual instruments and remotely hosted VSTi virtual instruments, where "remotely hosted" in this context refers to using ReWire MIDI staves in NOTION and having the VSTi virtual instruments hosted in Studio One Professional . . .

The key bit of information is that when a set of sampled sounds for a specific instrument were not played in the particular combination of articulation and dynamics when the sampled sound library was created, these articulations and dynamics computed . . .

The problem with computed sounds is that they are computed rather than being actually played by a musician as part of the sampling process, which maps generally to computed sounds being less than realistic and in the worst case scenario sounding like a 1960s Farfisa Combo Organ or Vox Continental Organ . . .

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Instead, I select the specific set of sampled sounds that match the articulations and dynamics I need . . .

This ensures that the music is played the way I want it to be played, and this does not require computing articulations and dynamics arbitrarily . . .

Additionally, I use chromatically sampled sound libraries where each note is sampled rather than every other note . . .

Chromatically sampled sound libraries cost more, but they are the most realistic . . .

Non-chromatically sampled sound libraries map approximately to half the notes being computed using logarithmic extrapolation or whatever, where in particular for sample sound sets that have dynamic-based and pitch-based playing styles (for example tremolo and vibrato, respectively), the computed notes will be inconsistent with the sampled notes due to the way the "in-between" notes are computed . . .

For example, if a non-chromatically set of sampled notes have embedded tremolo, then when a note must be computed--which is done starting with a lower or higher note and then adjusting it algorithmically to create an "in-between" note--the pitch will be correct but the tremolo will be faster or slower than the notes which actually were played, recorded, and digitized to create the sampled sound library; and the more intense the motion-based or pitch-based effect, the more obvious the inconsistencies become . . .

Hence, if you want consistent tremolo but are using a non-chromatically sampled sound library, then select a dry set of sampled notes and use a tremolo VST effect plug-in to do the tremolo, in which case the tremolo depth, intensity, rate, and so forth will be consistent for all the notes, which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous! :+1

The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!
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by andrescamposaguilar on Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:36 am
You can select the affected notes and then use the "Notes" context menu to change the way note articulations are positioned--either as a set of selected notes or one-at-a-time individually . . .


Thanks but the problem is that the context menu "Notes / Articulation default" does not work for me, does not do anything.
Please can you tell me if it works for you correctly? If yes, I will contact the technical service because I would have the problem in my Notion 6.5.

Thanks Surf.Whammy for your P.S. I use NOTION for notation and to play music, but I'm not a sound engineer and I can only use the options provided by a music notation program like Notion

I use Notion 6.5 (470) and Windows 10
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by Surf.Whammy on Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:44 pm
andrescamposaguilar wrote
Thanks but the problem is that the context menu "Notes / Articulation default" does not work for me, does not do anything.

Please can you tell me if it works for you correctly? If yes, I will contact the technical service because I would have the problem in my Notion 6.5.

Thanks Surf.Whammy for your P.S. I use NOTION for notation and to play music, but I'm not a sound engineer and I can only use the options provided by a music notation program like Notion

I use Notion 6.5 (470) and Windows 10


It works nicely here in the sound isolation studio . . . :)

THOUGHTS

I do everything on the Mac, which might be a significant difference . . .

On the Windows side there is a restriction, which is that "Notion is not compatible with i9 or dual Xeon processors on Windows" . . .

If your Windows computer has i9 or dual Xeon processors, then this can explain the problem . . .

Other than the processor restriction, all that comes to mind is that you are not actually selecting the notes or perhaps are selecting only some of the notes . . .

If you can post the link to a sample NOTION score that has the problem, then I can try it here in the sound isolation studio and see what happens . . .

By "sample NOTION score", I am referring to a few measures of piano or other instrument that is a native NOTION instrument--nothing complex and not something that is a signature phrase or whatever, just a few notes . . .

If you have been working on something like the "Pink Panther Theme" or the "Peter Gunn Theme", then find another phrase to put in the sample score . . . :P

[NOTE: Henry Mancini is a personal favorite, and I frequently "borrow" a few of his ideas . . . ]

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[NOTE: Listen to the lead guitar in the bridge or whatever it's called, and observe that it's real guitar, since while these are simple phrases it's virtually impossible to do it with music notation and a virtual lead guitar, so I played it on the Stratocaster here in the sound isolation studio. Mostly it's a matter of the glissandi and whammying. All the other instruments are virtual and are done in NOTION. The singing is real, and it was done when I was in Pretend Justin Bieber mode. The fact of the matter is that Justin Bieber should record this song, since among other things he doesn't have a signature song like Elvis ("Hound Dog") and Keith Urban ("Blue Ain't Your Color"). Although it should be obvious, I am a songwriter, not a singer, which is fine with me. I'm working on discovering a signature vocal sound, and I have a few ideas, but so far it's an ongoing effort. "Feel Me" is a great song, and it's easy to sing. For reference, "Feel Me" is a parody on "Who Owns My Heart" (Miley Cyrus), which I did because she stole my idea for wearing a Venetian mask in a music video, hence she needed to be spanked . . . ]

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Lots of FUN! :)

P. S. Regarding the "Venetian mask", the first complete song I did in NOTION was done using virtual instruments because (a) it has a custom Flamingo rhythm and (b) while I play drums, it was beyond my drumming capabilities at the time . . .

The musical Interlude in the middle of the song has a custom 36-beat rhythm pattern that I devised after studying Bulería rhythm patterns; and the idea for the music video during the Interlude is that I would do a creative dance interpretation of the Mayan story of "The Creation of the World" while wearing fluffy bunny slippers, polyester tights, impressive codpiece, and a Venetian mask during which I would be juggling unshucked ears of corn . . .

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This is well-documented on the web; and it has been well-documented since sometime in 2010, nearly a decade ago, which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous! :+1

The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!
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by andrescamposaguilar on Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:01 am
I send you a sample Notion score.
My Windows computer has i5 and windos 10
There are two problems:
1. When I import an XLM file with articulations on the notes, Notion changes them to the tops of the stems.
2. To solve this I want to use the context menu Notes / Articulation Default for the whole score, but it does nothing.
Greetings.

Attachments
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by Surf.Whammy on Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:34 am
andrescamposaguilar wroteI send you a sample Notion score.
My Windows computer has i5 and windos 10
There are two problems:
1. When I import an XLM file with articulations on the notes, Notion changes them to the tops of the stems.
2. To solve this I want to use the context menu Notes / Articulation Default for the whole score, but it does nothing.
Greetings.


It does the same thing on the Mac . . . :cry:

THOUGHTS

I can position the articulations near the notes rather than the tops of stems, but I have to do it selectively rather than for the entire score . . .

Whether this is a "bug" or is expected behavior is another matter . . .

On the one hand, it appears intuitive to want articulation marks positioned near note rather than stems, but I am not certain what the standard notation rule on this is . . .

If the standard notation rule is that articulations should be next to notes, then this is not working correctly and either is (a) a "bug" or (b) has been overlooked and is a programming mistake . . .

DETAILS

It does not appear possible to position articulations en masse for the entire score such that articulations are near notes rather than at the top of stems or in some other pattern . . .

You can do the articulation positioning in subsets, but it takes longer . . .

From a logical perspective, I think the choices for articulation position (above, below, default) are not focused correctly . . .

Instead of being focused on {above, below, default}, the better focus might be {near note, near stem} or simply {note, stem} . . .

I think it looks better when the articulations are next or near to the notes, not the tops or bottoms of stems; but I don't know what the standard is for this aspect of music notation . . .

After doing some research on articulation marks, it appears that most or all of the examples have the articulation marks near the notes rather then near the ends of stems . . .

Based on this, I think the standard rule is that articulation marks by default should be near notes rather than at the ends of stems . . .

It took a while to locate what appears to be a consistent set of standards, and the key was using the term "typesetting" when searching . . .

This is a matter of typesetting . . .

The "Music Notation Style Guide" (Jacobs School of Music, Indiana University) suggests the following:

"Articulations should be placed on the note head side, and with the exception of the staccato mark should be placed outside the staff."
[SOURCE: "Music Notation Style Guide" (Jacobs School of Music, Indiana University) ]


These are the two standard references for music notation typesetting (listed alphabetically by author):

+ "Behind Bars: The Definitive Guide to Music Notation" (Elaine Gould)

+ "Music Notation: A Manual of Modern Practice" (Gardener Read)

Amazon sells them for about $60 (US) each, but I don't have these books; so at present all I can do is guess based primarily on common sense and logic . . .

At present, I don't have $120 (US) to pursue this, but I recall a post from several years ago where one of the NOTION folks referred to using a specific music notation typesetting reference when making these types of typesetting decisions; and it probably was one of these books (or perhaps a combination of both books) . . .

In this regard, I think the aforementioned and linked set of simple music notation typesetting rules from the Jacobs School of Music is a good guide, but as with everything associated with music notation, there are several ways to read the information . . .

Specifically, how does one interpret the phrase "on the note head side"? :roll:

One might presume there are two sides, which requires a somewhat non-standard use of the word "side", but so what:

(a) note head side

(b) stem head side

[NOTE: Since the stem for a note can be oriented upward or downward, using "top" and "bottom" or "up" or "down" is confusing, hence the strategy of using "side" . . . ]

This is the way I interpret the phrase "on the note head side". . .

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Based on this, I think the NOTION typesetting algorithm for the position of articulation marks is incorrect . . .

In another bit of searching, I found a set of symbols for everything involved in music notation, and the articulation marks appeared in two forms {above, below}; so this might be the source of what one might call "algorithmic confusion" . . .

Explained another way, based on my research so far, I think the typesetting rule for articulation marks is "on the note head side" rather than arbitrarily above or below the note, where in this context "note" refers to the combination of note head and stem . . .

It looks better when articulations are on the note head side, but there are additional rules in this regard, where one rule refers to {"on the staff", "below the staff, "above the staff"} . . .

The aforementioned rule (see above) indicates that staccato marks always are on the note side but that other articulation marks are outside the staff (above or below, based on the location of the note head), which probably is done to avoid crossing lines and the visual confusion it creates . . .

Accidentals are placed near the note heads, which makes sense . . .

Whether it makes sense to treat staccato differently from other articulations is another matter, but after doing a quick experiment, I think NOTION follows the rule regarding the other articulations being placed below the staff rather than on the note head side, which makes a bit of sense . . .

CONCLUSION

I think "on the note head side" is the correct typesetting rule for staccato articulation marks, hence NOTION is not doing this correctly . . .

On the other hand, since I don't use articulations and dynamics, for me it's not a problem . . .

It's not my fault! :ugeek:

P. S. In the interest of fairness, let's consider this from a different perspective . . .

When I did my initial experiments, I created the music notation in NOTION; and there were no problems . . .

What about the scenario where the music notation you imported via MusicXML was not correctly typeset?

Is it reasonable to expect NOTION to be able to correct typesetting problems as part of importing MusicXML?

Or should NOTION follow the rule of importing MusicXML as accurately as possible, without making arbitrary changes?

If I compose a sentence that has grammatical errors and then copy and paste it into a Word (Mac, Windows) or Pages (Mac) document, should the word processing software make arbitrary corrections?

Or do I use an application like Grammarly to review grammar, spelling, writing style, and so forth?

In this regard, one might suggest that the prevailing rule in software engineering is that "If it's not broken, then do not fix it!" . . .

On the other hand, if it's clearly broken, then it probably should be fixed but maybe not, which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous! :)
Last edited by Surf.Whammy on Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:40 pm, edited 5 times in total.

The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!
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by andrescamposaguilar on Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:51 pm
Is it reasonable to expect NOTION to be able to correct typesetting problems as part of importing MusicXML?
Or should NOTION follow the rule of importing MusicXML as accurately as possible, without making arbitrary changes?
If I compose a sentence that has grammatical errors and then copy and paste it into a Word (Mac, Windows) or Pages (Mac) document, should the word processing software make arbitrary corrections?
Or do I use an application like Grammarly to review grammar, spelling, writing style, and so forth?
In this regard, one might suggest that the prevailing rule in software engineering is that "If it's not broken, then do not fix it!" . . .
On the other hand, if it's clearly broken, then it probably should be fixed but maybe not, which is fabulous


The XLM files created with Sibelius 2018 and with Musescore versions 2 and 3 are correctly created with the articulations on the note heads. But Notion 6.5 when importing changes them on the plicas.
However, the XLM file created by Sibelius 6, Notion opens correctly with the articulations on the heads of the notes.
On the other hand, the Notess / Articulation Default command still does not work.

But now I know it's not my exclusive problem

I will submitt a ticket to support

Thanks for your interest

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