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Hello all,
Is it possible to put a plug-ins EQ or Compressor on bus or subgroup in a SL Series iii mixer?

Thanks,
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by wahlerstudios on Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:46 am
No, it is not possible to use plug-ins on buses (auxes, subgroups, matrixes, effects). You would need to involve Studio One more additional processing.

Obviously the new plug-ins are integrated to the Fat Channel of all input channels, while the Fat Channel of the buses now feature a 6-band parametric equalizer. Interestingly the Fat Channels of Aux In 1, Aux In 2 and Digital Return also have the plug-in option now, so there might be something developing in the AVB network field. For single mixers (consoles, rack mixers) there is nothing new. Plug-ins can only be used in the Fat Channel of the 32 inputs.

SL16 | 32R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
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by golishevsky on Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:25 am
wahlerstudios wroteNo, it is not possible to use plug-ins on buses (auxes, subgroups, matrixes, effects). You would need to involve Studio One more additional processing.

Obviously the new plug-ins are integrated to the Fat Channel of all input channels, while the Fat Channel of the buses now feature a 6-band parametric equalizer. Interestingly the Fat Channels of Aux In 1, Aux In 2 and Digital Return also have the plug-in option now, so there might be something developing in the AVB network field. For single mixers (consoles, rack mixers) there is nothing new. Plug-ins can only be used in the Fat Channel of the 32 inputs.



that's bad. it would be cool to use some plugins in subgroups. I would be very happy for example to connect some sort of britcomp drums mix.
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by wahlerstudios on Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:24 am
I think it's great to be able to use plug-ins in individual channels (we are talking about 32 equalizers and 32 compressors available "on board"!), because this supports my approach to mixing live. Buses (subgroups) with sound processing might be "faster" sometimes, but are the results better?

You mentioned drums as subgroup, which is a very good example to evaluate the pros and cons. We all know that drums are not drums. We need to consider the genre, the style, the drumset, the drummer, the band, the room... By choosing the right microphones and placing them properly, the drumset should sound "good" already. Corrections can easily be done via equalizer, so what do I need plug-ins for?

It might be that I have a certain image in mind, how I want a drumset or parts of it to sound, which means that I want to "form" the sound within the whole "picture". I have always got where I wanted by using the standard equalizer, but I can see now that plug-ins can do a much better job because they add their own color to the sound. Obviously, what is good for the kick, must not be good for cymbals or snare. Individual processing is needed and will definitely lead to better results than just adding some overall sound shaping. It will serve the music and the musician(s) better.

Now that PreSonus is lavishing us with tons of equalizers and compressors with impressive features (paper doesn't blush...), we are asked to "listen" to the plug-ins and find out, what they serve best, when and why. At the moment my favorite is the "Vintage 3-band EQ", especially for drums and percussion instruments. With this plug-in you can make a drumset sound great within seconds - well, maybe one minute... ;-)

Listen to the plug-ins and do not read their "history". The originals will sound better anyway, so take the plug-ins as they are and start listening to them. If they do what you want and need, it's all fine. It's indredible to listen to recordings made with previous generations of PreSonus mixers sound great just by a selective use of plug-ins.

SL16 | 32R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Studio One Pro 3.5
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by tamha on Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:27 pm
Thanks wahlerstudios for your insights.
The ability to use plug-ins compressor and eq on buses and subgroups, will allow me to shape the color of a certain instruments group, for example drum. To fit certain gene of music with one compressor or eq, instead of having to go through 10 plug-ins on 10 separate channels... I know there's a "Scenes" function in UC for this kind of stuff, but plug-ins on subgroups would put this mixer ahead of all competition. Well, actually Behringer already done that for a long time now, on all of their x mixers.

Oh and the funny thing is, most of the demo video for these plug-ins, they were using them on bus in S1 too :D

I really hope that a firmware update in the future will change this.
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by matthewgorman on Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:50 pm
Not sure if the proccessing has the headroom to do it. The best thing to do is put in a feature request in answers, and post the link back to this thread so folks can vote on it. Most features are being sourced from here, where possible.

answers.presonus.com

Matt

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by tamha on Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:57 pm
Thanks Matt,
Can I also put in a feature request for...... free "Classic Studio Bundle" with the next firmware update? :P

Almost missed the vintage bundle this time.
Thanks.
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by wahlerstudios on Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:49 am
Now that the Fat Channels of Aux In 1, Aux In 2 and Digital Return have the plug-in option, it will be interesting to see if PreSonus will be able to add the highly demanded plug-ins for buses (flex mixes). This means the mixers (consoles and rack mixers) need to have the "horse power" for 32 additional plug-ins OR there must be possiblity to choose where to use the available and "maxed out" plug-in, like this was done with the graphic equalizers. Why not using plug-ins on flex mixes if you don't need them in the channels?

This whole plug-in thing is new for PreSonus mixers. For 10 years (the StudioLive 16.4.2 was introduced late 2008) we are living with equalizers, compressors, limiters and gates. Chorus and flangers are still literally mentioned in the Series III manual and they were listed as features when the world heard about SL 32 the first time, but they disappeared somehow and quite fast. But there IS hope for more, whenever this will be.

PreSonus has always pointed to Studio One for "additional processing" and actually this works the same way since ten years: Route your input channels to Studio One, in Studio One send the channels you want to process to a bus, add the effect there and route the bus send via "Digital Return" (DigRet) back to the mixer. You can create unlimited buses in Studio One, but normally they arrive at the mixer as one common stereo return. You can also use flex mixes/auxes as returns for Studio One. This has always worked and latency is not a theme if you have enough processing power, but Studio One and a computer need to be involved.

Up to now there is no special processing for flex mixes "on board". Everybody wants plug-ins and multitrack recording on board, so we will see if the Series III hardware can deliver...

SL16 | 32R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Studio One Pro 3.5
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by tamha on Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:54 pm
I don't think the new SL mixers have the same processing power as the older one. Remember Presonus used to use the line "You’ll never run out of signal processors"? They no longer use that line on the series III mixers.

I find it weird that they have plug-ins on the fat channel for aux in. I will have to take a look at that when I get home tonight.
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by tamha on Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:50 pm
Everyone,
If you would like Presonus to work on this feature, please go to the link below and vote. Thanks!

https://answers.presonus.com/31679/buse ... 842#a32842
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by BrentJammer on Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:58 am
In the meantime, I can tell you my 2 workarounds, which may or may not be applicable for your situation:

1.) While you cannot use FatChannel on a Bus inside SL3 nothing can stop you to bus some tracks before going into the mixer (granted you need to be able to do that) and then use the FatChannel there

2.) If it's about parallel compression, try this: E.g. on Input (Analog, Digital, doesn't matter) 1+2 you have Synth 1 Stereo which you want to compress parallel with Fat Channel. Just assign Input 1+2 to Fader 1+2 and again to Fader 3+4 - this essentially cuts your mix channel count in half but now you can do that parallel compression and whatever you like.

But I also voted for this feature.

Cheers.
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by wahlerstudios on Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:45 am
May I correct this statement a little bit? All Series III mixers have 4 subgroups on board plus 16 flex mixes, which can also be used as subgroups. All 20 mono / 10 stereo subgroups and flex mixes have Fat Channels, including RTA. What might be missing is the possibility to use plug-ins on subgroups/flex mixes. The question is, if this option is really needed and my answer is NO, because the "normal" Fat Channel with Gate, Compressor/Expander, Limiter and 6-band (!) fully parametric Equalizer does everything. You can even use up to 8 Graphic Equalizers on flex mixes.

Using a computer and Studio One is no option, because there is the demand to have everything on board, which PreSonus strongly supports by adding SD-card recording and mixer plug-ins. I support the "no computer" vision, because it makes live mixing easier.

SL16 | 32R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Studio One Pro 3.5
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by tamha on Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:55 pm
wahlerstudios,
Thank you for the information.
I still remember a few years ago, during SL 1 & 2 era... I've seen so many Presonus's fans arguing with others about how they "don't need" recallable preamps, trashing on board effects like what Behringer have... we all know what happened. :)

Not only Presonus did exactly what they been sitting on for years, but they also brag about it as if it's a break through..... for example, you would see "recallable XMAX preamps" everywhere... LOL

Another thing I hope Presonus improve on the SL rack mixer is the scene and preset interface. It's a pain in the butt to use. Something like Waves plugins is ideal for live sound.
User avatar
by wahlerstudios on Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:15 pm
There is an interesting video from NAMM 2017 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kPMOz5maQw) about StudioLive 32 and you might be especially interested in the part starting around 5:20. There is somebody talking about Waves SoundGrid for Series III and showing the prototype.

We got the PreSonus Fat Channel mono plug-ins instead. I suppose this indicates a decision of general principle.

:?

SL16 | 32R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Studio One Pro 3.5
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by tamha on Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:52 pm
I was referring to the way Waves plugins recall presets, and not about running Waves plugins in PreSonus mixer.

I think in the video, they're running Presonus to MOTU via AVB, the MOTU interface then connected to the Waves SoundGrid. Personally, I would never go with such setup, especially for live sound.
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by PreSonus Seth on Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:58 am
Sorry to bust your bubbles, but the Series 3 will never have the same plugins on Busses without sacrificing DSP from other places. Just like 88.1 and 96 kHz modes on the AI (Removes all Bus Processing).

Don't complicate your setups. Live Sound should be about necessity, not mixing like your in the Studio. :)
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by tamha on Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:59 pm
If that's the case, then you should be using a first generation SL mixer.

Sometimes it's important to get out of that "bubble" and try new things... bringing studio sound quality to live show is reality, not a dream anymore. :thumbup:


PreSonus Seth wroteSorry to bust your bubbles, but the Series 3 will never have the same plugins on Busses without sacrificing DSP from other places. Just like 88.1 and 96 kHz modes on the AI (Removes all Bus Processing).

Don't complicate your setups. Live Sound should be about necessity, not mixing like your in the Studio. :)
User avatar
by wahlerstudios on Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:45 pm
"Bringing studio sound quality to live show is reality, not a dream anymore."

Well, yes and no... ;-) If you have to mix a band in a room/venue with lots of reflections or in a small pub with lots of "wash" from the stage, you will literally feel like being thousands of miles away from your studio... Over the years you will learn to appreciate and follow the K.I.S.S. principle, which says KEEP IT STUPID SIMPLE! This principle helps you to survive on the road and stay away from things that might go wrong.

There is nothing to say against being creative and trying new things. The equipment we use nowadays can indeed open new horizons and even though studio and live are different worlds, there is a lot of interaction. It's just that what works in studio does not necessarily work in a live environment - and vice versa. To give you an example: In a studio you should use the best microphones you can get. On a stage the "best" most probably is overkill and even 'cheap' microphones can do a good job. It always depends.

There is one important information in the reply of PreSonus Seth. He says that Series III is already maxed out and there is no plan and probably no possibilty to design things different like introducing the option to 'delegate' processing power (take 10 plugins away from the inputs and use them on buses). Experienced StudioLive users know immediately, what 'maxed out' means. But it's not the time yet to speak about the next generation of mixers, so let us go back to the theme "plugins on buses".

The Fat Channel on buses is not a new invention. It's a good PreSonus tradition. New is the 6 band parametric equalizer (instead of 4 band) on all flex mixes and Mains, which can be used to 'shape' the sound. Also changing auxes to subgroups is nothing new, but REALLY NEW is that the rack mixer on stage can now be used as COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT monitor mixer, including own gain settings and processing. If you want so, you can use all 16 flex mixes of the Series III console as subgroups for further processing!

This was not possible up to now. The AI consoles and rack mixers could not work completely separated, because AVB I could not handle that kind of constellations. Series III and AVB II have brought some creative features like being able to use up to 16 subgroups solely for sound processing. This solution is K.I.S.S. compatible... ;-)

By the way: I was listening to several recordings lately, which I had made via Series I mixers. It's amazing to hear how good the recordings sound on a Series III mixer, even with no sound processing!

SL16 | 32R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Studio One Pro 3.5
User avatar
by tamha on Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:58 pm
Well... all I'm going to say is; if one want to keep it simple and stupid, it's their choice! But don't act like their way is the golden rule... especially when it's not!

When people looking for certain features like; recallable preamps, motorized faders, high quality on board effects, USB connection.... they have a reason or needs for it.

I'm listing those, because I remember not so long ago, some of the old folks would say something like.... you don't need recallable preamps analog is superior...... or you don't need motorized faders because it will wear out.... or firewire is better then USB... blah blah blah... :roll:



wahlerstudios wrote"Bringing studio sound quality to live show is reality, not a dream anymore."

Well, yes and no... ;-) If you have to mix a band in a room/venue with lots of reflections or in a small pub with lots of "wash" from the stage, you will literally feel like being thousands of miles away from your studio... Over the years you will learn to appreciate and follow the K.I.S.S. principle, which says KEEP IT STUPID SIMPLE! This principle helps you to survive on the road and stay away from things that might go wrong.

There is nothing to say against being creative and trying new things. The equipment we use nowadays can indeed open new horizons and even though studio and live are different worlds, there is a lot of interaction. It's just that what works in studio does not necessarily work in a live environment - and vice versa. To give you an example: In a studio you should use the best microphones you can get. On a stage the "best" most probably is overkill and even 'cheap' microphones can do a good job. It always depends.

There is one important information in the reply of PreSonus Seth. He says that Series III is already maxed out and there is no plan and probably no possibilty to design things different like introducing the option to 'delegate' processing power (take 10 plugins away from the inputs and use them on buses). Experienced StudioLive users know immediately, what 'maxed out' means. But it's not the time yet to speak about the next generation of mixers, so let us go back to the theme "plugins on buses".

The Fat Channel on buses is not a new invention. It's a good PreSonus tradition. New is the 6 band parametric equalizer (instead of 4 band) on all flex mixes and Mains, which can be used to 'shape' the sound. Also changing auxes to subgroups is nothing new, but REALLY NEW is that the rack mixer on stage can now be used as COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT monitor mixer, including own gain settings and processing. If you want so, you can use all 16 flex mixes of the Series III console as subgroups for further processing!

This was not possible up to now. The AI consoles and rack mixers could not work completely separated, because AVB I could not handle that kind of constellations. Series III and AVB II have brought some creative features like being able to use up to 16 subgroups solely for sound processing. This solution is K.I.S.S. compatible... ;-)

By the way: I was listening to several recordings lately, which I had made via Series I mixers. It's amazing to hear how good the recordings sound on a Series III mixer, even with no sound processing!

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