11 posts
Page 1 of 1
Good evening all,

I have recently purchased a Studio 1824 USB AI. I have everything working, but I'm having issues with the Blue Z workflow.

When I have my settings a certain way in the Studio One preferences, Blue Z mode becomes available. I have a cue mix setup so that the second headphone out is mirroring Out 3/4. I go over to my mixer view, engage Blue Z on the phones output, turn on the monitoring for the drum tracks coming in from the Pearl Mimic Pro, and put my headphones on.

I am definitely hearing latency. I am quite sensitive to it. It feels like I'm playing a sponge compared to when I play the drums with the phones connected directly to the module. It's not subtle. Feels like 11+ ms to me.

So - what do I need to do to get this to work the way it's supposed to?

Also - the headphones out is really weak on here. I donm't get much gain coming off the phones output, even with the knob turn full open. The same phones on the drum module itself at about 75% are way louder and more "transparent". It's almost like I'm listening to the old unit with the -10/+4 switch backwards and getting low level output from the phones.

These are two things that are bothering me. The purpose of getting the Presonus unit was to have the full integration with Studio One, to be able to use the headphones, and to use the Blue Z basically NO latency version of the recording workflow without having to switch a bunch of stuff around whenever I want to change what I'm recording.

My current workaround for this is to send the mix from Studio One to the Out 3/4, which I have sent to the Aux Input on the Mimic itself, where I can monitor the sound coming from the DAW on that Aix input and monitor the drums directly from the phones out on the Mimic. But this is how I had to do it on my old AI, so I would really like to resolve the Blue Z and the phones Output level if possible.

Looking for any assistance on getting this working. Even if I have to keep the routing for the drums working this way, I'd like to be able to use the Blue Z for vocals at least.

Drummer and Singer mostly with some limited Guitar/Bass/Keys and a love for tech.
My personal website, with some useful videos and other music related things: https://blades.technology

Using:
Self-built i5/16gb/all SSD, S1 4 Pro, Sonar Platinum/Cakewalk by Bandlab, Faderport 8, Tranzport, Edirol PCR-800, Pearl Mimic Pro and Roland V-Drums kit.
User avatar
by Blades on Tue May 15, 2018 6:51 pm
So... Am I the only one who is having issues such as this?

Drummer and Singer mostly with some limited Guitar/Bass/Keys and a love for tech.
My personal website, with some useful videos and other music related things: https://blades.technology

Using:
Self-built i5/16gb/all SSD, S1 4 Pro, Sonar Platinum/Cakewalk by Bandlab, Faderport 8, Tranzport, Edirol PCR-800, Pearl Mimic Pro and Roland V-Drums kit.
User avatar
by jpettit on Tue May 15, 2018 9:53 pm
The 1824 is fairly new so there might not be too many people with them.

You might want to do two things

1) show is picture of you audio processing page with the drop ou protection info on it and blue z numbers.

2) ask th question in the 192 forum which will have more people who can do Blue Z.

Please add your specs to your SIGNATURE.
OVERVIEW of how to get your issue fixed.
Search the ONLINE MANUAL, Create a SUPPORT TICKET and or Post Issue.
Needs to include: 1) One Sentence Description 2) Expected Results 3) Actual Results 4) Steps to Reproduce.


My Website, Free Studio One Advance Training
SPECS:Win 10 64-bit, 12 Core i7: 32Gb DDR4 ram, 40" 4K monitor, StudioLive 24, Quantum, Faderport16, Central Station Plus, Sceptre 6,Temblor T10, Eris 4.5, HP60, Studio One Pro 4.0, Reaper 5.9, Sonar Platinum
User avatar
by PreSonuSupt4 on Wed May 16, 2018 5:47 am
Blue Z should be direct hardware monitoring so if you're hearing latency you're not monitoring hardware direct or you're listening to a different signal path. If I correctly understand how hardware direct monitoring works, It's input AD->DA output directly, which should only involve converter round trip latency which is near zero.

Outside of user error, the only other explanation would be something wrong with the driver build or something where it's just simply not working correctly.
User avatar
by Blades on Wed May 16, 2018 2:12 pm
Hey supt4, I am open to it being user error with my newness to studio one and the interface, but everything I have read and seen says to turn the option to allow hardware direct monitoring In the options, then engage the blue z on the output you want to MOnitor through. There doesn't really seem to be anything I could muck up.

But I very clearly hear latency. I will give it another shot and see if I was just having a bad cognition day or something. Then I will TRY to capture a video showing the problem, which might be hard for me since I will be trying to getting routing set in a way that will show a routing problem using the very interface on which I am having it... :geek:

Drummer and Singer mostly with some limited Guitar/Bass/Keys and a love for tech.
My personal website, with some useful videos and other music related things: https://blades.technology

Using:
Self-built i5/16gb/all SSD, S1 4 Pro, Sonar Platinum/Cakewalk by Bandlab, Faderport 8, Tranzport, Edirol PCR-800, Pearl Mimic Pro and Roland V-Drums kit.
User avatar
by gottfriedbergmair on Wed May 16, 2018 4:13 pm
Please see this video:
https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/studio-one//studio-one-low-latency-monitoring-blue-z-vs-green-z

I own the Studio 192 mobile interface. Maybe I'm wrong, but the blue z workflow is used together with interfaces which have a built in DSP hardware chip. So, I'm not sure if you can use the 1824 AI with zero blue z monitoring.

Another good explanation how to use the blue z and the Fat Channel integration in S1:
"Studio 192 Hardware Integration In Studio One 3.1" from Studio One Experts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p2SgWWQTvY

Gottfried

Win 10 64 i7-7K 4x4,2 GHz 32GB, Presonus :D Studio One Pro 4.1 + Notion 6 + Studio 192 Mobile + Eris E8 + New Faderport 1; Mackie Big-Knob P, 402VLZ4; Akai MPD232, Some Arturia Equipment, Rode Mics, Roland VT-3, Zoom H5; SW: Arturia V Collection, Melodyne :D 4.2 STUDIO, iZotope RX
User avatar
by Blades on Wed May 16, 2018 7:41 pm
I saw both of those videos and watched several times. As I understood, if the blue z option were not available e at the driver level, the blue z wouldn't be shown as an option.

Interestingly, the blue z shows up as a choice in various different settings of latency in the two settings tabs but with other settings, the checkboxbfir hardware latency goes greed out.

I am still not convinced that it isn't a driver issue.

Drummer and Singer mostly with some limited Guitar/Bass/Keys and a love for tech.
My personal website, with some useful videos and other music related things: https://blades.technology

Using:
Self-built i5/16gb/all SSD, S1 4 Pro, Sonar Platinum/Cakewalk by Bandlab, Faderport 8, Tranzport, Edirol PCR-800, Pearl Mimic Pro and Roland V-Drums kit.
User avatar
by PreSonuSupt4 on Thu May 17, 2018 7:24 am
Hi Blades,

I didn't mean "user error" quite that literally, no offense was intended there so apology if you took it that way. Was more suggesting that even when using directly hardware monitoring it's still possible via other separate signal routing to inject a latent mult of that same signal into the monitor path.

You are correct (afaik, your earlier observation) that if you can turn on the blue Z that means that your audio device supports direct hardware monitoring.
User avatar
by jpettit on Thu May 17, 2018 7:55 am
Also, it is normal for it to be grayed out under certain buffer and protection settings.

Let focus on you exact monitoring path.
My theory is you are hearing a double signal.

Blades wrote
1) When I have my settings a certain way in the Studio One preferences, Blue Z mode becomes available.

2) I have a cue mix setup so that the second headphone out is mirroring Out 3/4.

3) I go over to my mixer view, engage Blue Z on the phones output, turn on the monitoring for the drum tracks coming in from the Pearl Mimic Pro, and put my headphones on.

I am definitely hearing latency. It's not subtle. Feels like 11+ ms to me.


4) Also - the headphones out is really weak on here. I don't get much gain coming off the phones output, even with the knob turn full open. The same phones on the drum module itself at about 75% are way louder and more "transparent". It's almost like I'm listening to the old unit with the -10/+4 switch backwards and getting low level output from the phones.


5) My current workaround for this is to send the mix from Studio One to the Out 3/4, which I have sent to the Aux Input on the Mimic itself, where I can monitor the sound coming from the DAW on that Aix input and monitor the drums directly from the phones out on the Mimic. But this is how I had to do it on my old AI, so I would really like to resolve the Blue Z and the phones Output level if possible.


1) normal but please start showing all details with pictures See details at end of post for tools.viewtopic.php?f=151&t=17142

3) We will need to see your routing. This can be done with videos, or by creating pictures of the flow ( even drawn with a pencil)

4) this is why I think we have a misguided signal path

5) this is called out of the box monitoring so let not go there yet.

Please add your specs to your SIGNATURE.
OVERVIEW of how to get your issue fixed.
Search the ONLINE MANUAL, Create a SUPPORT TICKET and or Post Issue.
Needs to include: 1) One Sentence Description 2) Expected Results 3) Actual Results 4) Steps to Reproduce.


My Website, Free Studio One Advance Training
SPECS:Win 10 64-bit, 12 Core i7: 32Gb DDR4 ram, 40" 4K monitor, StudioLive 24, Quantum, Faderport16, Central Station Plus, Sceptre 6,Temblor T10, Eris 4.5, HP60, Studio One Pro 4.0, Reaper 5.9, Sonar Platinum
User avatar
by Blades on Thu May 17, 2018 6:07 pm
Hey folks. Thanks for the input so far.

I'm not offended by suggesting it is user error on my part. I've been around the DAW usage for along time,. but I'm very new to Studio One and to this interface, so I could be missing something for sure.

Here is the basic physical signal path:

Pearl Mimic Pro -> Behringer ADA8200 -> Studio 1824 (via ADAT) - though I also have a few channels going straight to the analog inputs on the Studio 1824 for the hi-hats and ride, so it's not that the ada8200 is introducing some problem.

In Studio One, under Song Setup...Output, I have Main Out set to Line Out 1 and 2
I have (what I've named) Headphones set to Line Out 3/4 and have Cue Mix selected (and in the Universal Control I have the headphones 2 out set to mirror 3/4)
In the S1 options, I have the Audio device set to 64 Samples (44.1/32) and showing 2.95/2.49ms latency
In the same options under Processing, I have Dropout protection set to (whatever) and the checkbox for "use native low latency moniroting instead of hardware monitoring" UN-CHECKED

With all of this, I set one channel to Input Monitor on the S1 mixer, I click the Z under the Headphones Cuemix, and I hit the snare. I hear the latency.

I have found that as I change the Dropout Protection to different settings, the latency increases accordingly, as if I were using the "low latency monitoring" instead of hardware monitoring. In fact, if I change that checkbox and get the Green Z, there is no difference in the latency result. The reported roundtrip latency is what I'm hearing in Blue Z or Green Z mode.

So - from that much info, are you able to tell anything?

Drummer and Singer mostly with some limited Guitar/Bass/Keys and a love for tech.
My personal website, with some useful videos and other music related things: https://blades.technology

Using:
Self-built i5/16gb/all SSD, S1 4 Pro, Sonar Platinum/Cakewalk by Bandlab, Faderport 8, Tranzport, Edirol PCR-800, Pearl Mimic Pro and Roland V-Drums kit.
User avatar
by Blades on Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:53 pm
Good evening everyone. I hate when someone finds a fix to their problem and leaves a thread with no answer in it. So I am back to update this with what I found.

I solved the problem, but it was not anything that I was doing wrong, nor was it a flaw or defect in the Presonus gear or Studio One. This was one of those elusive fixes that happen here and again where you change something for no good, logical reason, and it causes a change.

In this case, that thing was a change in the setting of the Digital Sync between the Studio 1824 and the Behringer ADA8200, though I imagine it could have been any audio interface and any ADAT audio expander.

I suppose that the issue was a result of having originally had the ADA8200 attached to my Echo Layla 3G. It was set to 44.1kHz there and when I connected the 1824 to it, I set it for the same. The Behringer is set to be the Slave to the Audio Interface, so it should follow whatever is set there. I had restarted the PC and both the ADA8200 and the 1824, but still, the Blue Z didn't work right - specifically on the channels through the ADAT. Now, the original issue in this thread covered both the ADAT inputs and the Analog ones, but that was resolved through a series of changes - the one causing the fix in the case of the Analog inputs is kind of unknown but I think had to do with putting both the Output AND the headphone bus to which the channels were pointing in Blue Z mode (even though I wasn't really using the main out in that case - apparently it has an effect).

So - I randomly changed the Setting on the 18724 to 48kHz and things started to work. I checked the ADA8200 settings, and it really was set to Slave, so I set the 1824 Back to 44.1kHz and it STILL worked. So - that was the fix!

So - I know that everyone lost interest in this on the last post, but I wanted to add the details of the fix for the Studio One users and for Google food for future searches. I try to be a good community member! :D

Drummer and Singer mostly with some limited Guitar/Bass/Keys and a love for tech.
My personal website, with some useful videos and other music related things: https://blades.technology

Using:
Self-built i5/16gb/all SSD, S1 4 Pro, Sonar Platinum/Cakewalk by Bandlab, Faderport 8, Tranzport, Edirol PCR-800, Pearl Mimic Pro and Roland V-Drums kit.

11 posts
Page 1 of 1

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests