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When I rename a song it it appears in my recent songs list but not in my song folder. It still appears in the folder under the previous name. What happens when and if my Recent Songs list gets cleared?
By example I have an EP that I’m working on and eventually before I master them I would like to replace all of the “working titles”.

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by roland1 on Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:34 am
Perhaps a developer could chime in here [See what I did there?] :D

From my own experience, I think you can rename the song file and folder only while working on the original file. After that, I think the file system is designed not to get overly complicated with different names attached to different generations of that file within the same folder.

Again, just my own speculation. But now such changes become a sub-activity of the file you're working on. Hence, recent file name.

What I do is when saving a file such as this—a major name change or a re-orienting of the file's purpose or content—I create a new folder with the "save as" command and store that new song project parallel to the old one I'm working on.

Then, I move the old folder into the new folder, into an archive folder within a folder called "Resources" because then I know that this older file and other content (lyrics, digital recorder files, presets, Reason files, etc.) can all be easily found in that Resources folder.

I know I've veered off the path here, but maybe someone will need this info, like I did, once.

So to answer your question, I think organic peanut butter is better for you.

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by Lokeyfly on Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:06 am
I'm joining this thread due to seeing the same issue where the full on naming changes depending on the complexity of the song.

Roland1 wrote: From my own experience, I think you can rename the song file and folder only while working on the original file. After that, I think the file system is designed not to get overly complicated with different names attached to different generations of that file within the same folder.


Yeah, I agree. Not with the original file part though, because it seems to be a little further up the road. There's something to renaming at an early state which changes the whole folder, and all previous song file names, within the same respected song folder. A good thing!

What I am seeing though is the full on renaming is not limited within the original song file. It will work with other song renames within the same song folder (like for example songs with a different suffix added). I'll see like 5+ renamed song files now containing the new song name and the song folder name is completely changed as well.
However, I discovered the lack of full on renaming such as keeping the original song, and the rename resides within the old folder name, when I added audio files (or event bounce or something). I still have to verify, but it's happened twice to me on to different occasions, so ill probably keep a closer eye on it. 

There seems to be some point where file rename changes but keeps and resides within the older song folder. My suspicion is its when the audio folder gets established by either recording, or an audio bounce. It would be nice if the rename structure were always the same. I do get the complexity part though. The simple fact is there is some point where this changes.

Yes, you can save as to a new location, but that needs to be treated carefully, as older files could lose file association if the old song is deleted.

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by frank.crow on Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:33 am
Thank you sir

I usually start with a working title but at some point perhaps due to some moment of inspiration I figure out what I really want to call the song and I’d really like that name change to be universal. I seem to remember that this was actually how it used to be.

I really respect the points you made

On a side note though I do like the incremental suffix added to new versions

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by jBranam on Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:03 am
i lost a song (sorta) not long ago... i started a project and just left the name the date as the title (default)... later i changed the name of the work then played hell finding it in windows explorer 'cos the folder remained named the original date of initial creation lol

would be nice if you rename the .song name it change the folder name too :thumbup: if that is possible

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by Lokeyfly on Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:39 am
Exactly!. The song name can change quite naturally with how the song evolves. It therefore should be a universal and easy change.

I just got done writing something I'm really excited about, but the name needed to be better than the clueless intro name I started with. Once I added a few guitar tracks to the keyboard tracks, the rename was needed. Only, I'm stuck with the rename residing within the old song name. You have to be really careful with archiving, as Frank mentioned. Typically, I just stay loyal to the folder I originated with. The rename will reside there. Even sending the song to the Project page or by mixdown is fine, because the file contents are all good, and the final mix and master, are all good with the new name. I'd just prefer the whole folder contents everywhere carry the name during more development of the song.

Let's try and see where the occurence happens, in the coming days or weeks, and once we know when that exists. We can FR this. I'm currently trying to catch up some songs for a next release. It's still a few months out, so I can't really track this now. I will during some days ahead.
Glad it's just not me that caught this. Is n it a show stopper? No (shhhh, don't say that). Would full on renaming be beneficial? Absolutely, you betcha.

I think you're correct Frank about in the past, this was possible. I just forget the way to do that.

Yeah Jay, renaming to the song folder itself can be a real show stopper. I'll find this really great video that goes deeply into proper song saving with S1.
Talk later.
Jim

P.s. when I rename early and the whole song folder changes, and all song versions within, it's Awsome! Need that to happen all of the time.

We can use this as a sort of reference. There are times saving to a new folder would work. I just get a bit too careful perhaps, in what I might use again, but I could see where knowing everything you have necessary in a song could be saved to a new folder.
https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/articles/360013508792-Exploring-the-Save-Options-of-Studio-One
Last edited by Lokeyfly on Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by jBranam on Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:31 am
well i normally name things at least a 'working' name/title... i was just lazy. got an idea and ran with it only to regret it later lol (being lazy that is) :roll:

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by roland1 on Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:41 am
Lokeyfly wroteExactly!. The song name can change quite naturally with how the song evolves. It therefore should be a universal and easy change....


Remember how we JUST learned that MIDI import into a song file doesn't work if the MIDI file is over a certain size? ("Yay!")

Well, maybe a similar logic is at play here. Perhaps when the song file amasses a certain number of internal links to files, it goes into a lock down mode in regards to renaming to prevent any of those links from being messed up by that process.

It's a thought. I have more. Well, one more. And then I'll be all out of thoughts. :D

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by IanM5 on Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:03 am
I've used quite a few different DAWs over the years and all my stuff had working titles right through until the final mixdown. The final mixdown file gets named with the real song title. Everything else stays with the working title. I've been bitten badly in the past with renaming stuff. I've spent too long staring at progress bars in progs like Cakewalk as it attempts to "find my missing audio" because I fiddled with folders or filenames.

Because I don't trust DAWs to be around in 5, 10, 20 years I archive each song in a variety of ways. First, I zip up the entire project folder, including and samples any stuff (easier in some DAWs than others). Then I export each track as a stem in 16 bit, 44kHz WAV format. I figure that will be the most universal format in future. Those stems get zipped up. Finally I store a number of mixes of the finished song: final master, pre-master, no drums, no vocals etc (depends on the song). These also get zipped up. I usually add a text file describing the project, the DAW used and version and anything else that may be handy. Then the whole lot gets zipped up again into one large file with the song name in it which is then deposited in the cloud, in my car glovebox, at my work, round a mate's house etc.

But for me the lesson is: don't try to force renames on files and folders. Just keep a record of the working title vs the final name. I have loads of "song146" type folders, which is fine.

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by roland1 on Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:09 am
IanM5 wrote...Then I export each track as a stem in 16 bit, 44kHz WAV format. I figure that will be the most universal format in future. ...


The future. :)

I had this vision I'd like to share with you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7GERh0sQzY

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by IanM5 on Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:24 am
roland1 wrote
IanM5 wrote...Then I export each track as a stem in 16 bit, 44kHz WAV format. I figure that will be the most universal format in future. ...


The future. :)

I had this vision I'd like to share with you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7GERh0sQzY


Hehe. Now there's a blast from my past. I bought the album the day it came out. Still a great song with a great intro. I didn't see that video until years later - no such thing as MTV round my way.

The point about the stems is that I have midi files from songs I did 25 years ago but no longer own the synth or the sampler that the song was done with and no record or recollection of what some of the tracks sounded like. The tracks have unhelpful names like "tinkle" or "squee". :+1

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by Lokeyfly on Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:04 pm
IanM5 wroteI've used quite a few different DAWs over the years and all my stuff had working titles right through until the final mixdown. The final mixdown file gets named with the real song title. Everything else stays with the working title..

Same here. I thought the rename would be a good alternative, because on a basic front it works.

Worth seeing where the problem actually starts, and hopefully they can improve on it.

My master has a Readme file that sources the filenames. Anything up to the master with the final name gets that name sent for copyright.

Just a heads up, even if you keep the same name all the way through the Project page, you can name it right in the master tracks songname field. Would be nice to have rename work though.

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by bruceqld on Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:56 pm
Maybe I am missing something but why not just use the 'save to new folder' command to save your song with it's new name and the audio will be copied to a new folder with the new song name?

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by Lokeyfly on Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:12 am
bruceqld wroteMaybe I am missing something but why not just use the 'save to new folder' command to save your song with it's new name and the audio will be copied to a new folder with the new song name?

If you know everything in your song is to be finalized,, or perhaps you're sharing a song with another, then great. Then Save to new folder is fine. It's when you need to resort to other older or unused parts that can cause headaches. It's described in the Presonus link.

The question still remanes, Studio One provides a "Rename" option in its menu. The conditions of rename change, depending on the complexity of the song. Be it audio files, or whatever. It doesn't always fully rename to a new folder, with all song titles, within. At some point, the process leaves the old folder name, acting only as a Save As, within the old folder. That's the question. Why that inconsistancy?

Simply Saving to a new folder is a solution for certain conditions, but comes with its own things a user should be aware of.

Funny, when you read what's in the link, the rename portion is very short, and leads one to think that renaming works the same at any time of a song. It doesn't. It bails. :)

Link provided again.
To others, with respect to the OPs question, and those reading or asking, let's please try to stay on topic and not link other stuff.. Thx.
https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/articles/360013508792-Exploring-the-Save-Options-of-Studio-One

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by Jemusic on Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:51 am
How did you rename the song?

While the song is open under the old name, why can't you just do a Save As and give it a new title then. The new title should appear in your song folder. (old one will be in there too but you could even erase that)

Saving as a version won't change the name of the original song. Versions are something that live under the original song title.

I have even gone right into the song folder (not with the song open) and just renamed it there and it appears under the new name from that point on. Everywhere.

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by Lawrence on Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:16 am
I'm not seeing that behavior at all. When I use File > Rename it renames both the song file and the song folder that it's in.

It's easy enough to verify. Do that and then go to menu Song > Show Media Folder and you'll notice that the song file and the song folder names have both changed.



..
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by jBranam on Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:02 am
maybe it is a case of permissions? i remember a while back... i think it was v3... i tried to drag and drop from windows explorer to the time line and it kept failing. turns out because of the old preset saving problem in the past i had S1 in "Run As Admin" in it's .exe properties... once i removed that check box in .exe properties i could drag and drop from outside of S1. who knows? win10 got real picky about what can do what :( i DO know it had no problem renaming the .song file but did not change the folder name. i had went to grab some bounces from the project so i was not even in S1 at the time... i was in windows explorer and had to go through a bunch of folders until i found the correct .song file name then i knew i had the right dumps lol it was a pain in the button :roll:

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by Lokeyfly on Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:10 am
Lawrence wroteI'm not seeing that behavior at all. When I use File > Rename it renames both the song file and the song folder that it's in.

It's easy enough to verify. Do that and then go to menu Song > Show Media Folder and you'll notice that the song file and the song folder names have both changed.



..

It works to a point. The issue really is about at which point it stops working, and could that be fixed.

The above goes into that stuff, so I won't repeat it here my friend.

It's really sort of a conundrum that if you rename early, the rename is seamless (renamed folder, song, etc). If you rename late, like you know all the parts are perfect to proceed with and basically clean house, the choice then is "Save to new folder". The problem or better description "inconsistancy" is choosing to rename at some point of let's say 30% into a song. You now have audio files, or renders to audio, etc. that cause the Rename feature to not create a new folder. Yes, the song will rename within the old song folder. It would be nice to have Rename handle this in between stage of working with a song.
It's cropped up in my last few songs, so apologies for not pin pointing that place where Rename doesn't rename the song folder. Might even be when I bounce, edit in Melodyne, renounce or something that way. I'm hoping to see where this occurs.

I guess the scientific approach would be to keep renaming a song from its infancy, while performing different tasks, that create files that I suspect can't be changed.

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by Lokeyfly on Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:24 am
jBranam wrotemaybe it is a case of permissions?

I believe you're right, Bubba!

It would just be nice to rename a song that started as "Scratch my ____", and later at 40% the feel tends to go to "Saints and Sinners".

It would be great to continue, and have all of the "scratch my" parts intact, because let's face it, the song is still in work.

A lot of us tend to work like Brian Eno, where we don't even know how the song will change up, or we re create the song from some alternate groove within. Thereby changing the whole songs theme. Still, you want to keep the mixed bag of stuff. Renaming would just be that much nicer to have the consistency we'd hope for.

If we know where the stick enters the spokes, maybe we can get an FR to take this further for songs that are midway developed.
Last edited by Lokeyfly on Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by Lawrence on Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:33 am
Lokeyfly wroteIt works to a point. The issue really is about at which point it stops working, and could that be fixed.

The above goes into that stuff, so I won't repeat it here my friend.


I hear you. The only issue I've personally ever seen with it is when a user renames a song after using it in a mastering project. Then the mastering project can't find it anymore because the folder it's looking for no longer exists.

But sure, if there's another way to make song rename fail that's certainly something that should be documented and reported, if anyone can reliably recreate it.

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