StudioLive RM32Ai and RM16Ai Mixers & UC Surface with QMix Ai
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It's not nice to read this sentence, but it was to be expected for some months already. "Active Integration" and the SLAI, RMAI and CSAI products are legacy now. This means that support has stopped (in "Answers" already since the beginnning of December 2018) and with it any further development of firmware and software. Unfortunately the in 2018 released and really long expected firmware version has brought more problems than it has solved. It works fine for the CS18AI, but it's mostly unusable for the RM and RML rack mixers (Firewire and Smaart display lag, cascading). If you want your RM/RML to work, you need to use the older firmware.

I have been using a SL 2442AI, a RM32AI, a RM16AI and a CS18AI in any possible configuration (MOTU AVB switch) and they all have worked fine for me/my jobs. I could live with the limitations of AVB I and what I have learnt over the years helps me a lot to get along with the (not so) new Series III products and understand the networking/patching subjects. There would have been more possible in the development of the RM/RML mixers and the CS controller, but I understand that some (as many as possible) features had be be reserved for the Series III family in order to support the sales of the new products.

What I am still really angry about is, that the Beta Testing of the new firmware was a fake. Several people spent a lot of time to "help" by testing and reporting, but literally nothing was done on the several bugs we found and documented. Without any change, the beta firmware was then released as "new" firmware. I still have the beta files, so I can prove what I am saying. I don't think I will ever participate in a beta test any more. A company needs to show some "love" to its clients and supporters. I know, things change. We're not welcome as supporters any more.

Another "legacy" (I read the term "contaminated land" as alternative in leo.org...) is the "StudioLive-Power-up-Trade-in-Program", which ended on December 31, 2018. Several European countries were not allowed to participate in this program, because "PreSonus Europe" (Ireland) has resigned all national distributors and service centers and is trying to build up a new structure. I have no idea how many PreSonus mixers were sold in Europe, but I know that the customers of these countries which are still waiting for a chance to trade in their old mixers:

Austria
Belgium
England
Estonia
Germany
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Northern Irland
Scotland
Wales

And as a last thought: I have made the suggestion of a UC Surface 1.8.3 as the final version for the AI products and I want to renew this suggestion. People want to work with their mixers and they don't want to fight with problems. If a company wants to keep their clients, thy should avoid frustration with legacy equipment. It's easy, but you need to want to do it...

Good bye, Active Integration. It's been a great ("interesting"...) time.

SL16 | 32R | 16R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Docks | Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | LD Systems Curv 500 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Artist 4.5.4 & Pro 3.5.6
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by sjc193 on Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:22 am
No surprise here.

My worry is that a UC Surface 2.x (or 3.x) for iPad will come out that just simply will not work for Firmware version 1.8.3. The iPad apps are a pain in the ... because you can't test them and fall back to previous versions easily, it's just plain scary. And at this point I don't know that they are obligated to make new versions work with 1.8.3. So I could get stuck fairly easily. I don't use the iPad app, but I do rely on it as a backup to mix with if my computer does not work properly, there was only one gig all last year where I lost FireWire connection, I was dorking with my rack and the FW cable came unplugged during the show, I just opened the iPad app and was good to mix all night, none the wiser. It would be nice if they release a UC Surface iPad app by a different name that currently works with both the latest AI firmware and 1.8.3, something were we know it will work forever and nothing will change for years to come, I think that'd be great. Then they could do whatever they want with UC Surface for series iii and it would never screw up the AI stuff. But I'm not counting on that happening, all my money is on it breaking at some point. . . I mean, why change now?

That all said, I can run circles around a lot of people with my RM32, it's an awesome piece! I did sound for autoharp hall of famer Bryan Bowers Band last night and everything went perfect. So, it's tough to complain, but I still really wish I could use UC Surface 2 over Firewire, kind of broke my heart too when it didn't work properly and they never fixed it.

Steve

StudioLive RM32AI
Rackmount Windows 8.1 PC Quad core 8G ram
ASUS RT-N66U Dual Band Router
IPad2, IPad Air 2, Studio One 3 Pro, 1 DBX Driverack 260
2 QSC KW 153's, 2 Turbosound TMS-1's
2 OHM MR450D Subs with Kilomax 18inch drivers
4 EV ZLX-12P's, 1 TurboSound iX15, 2 Yamaha S115V's
1 Crest Pro-Lite 7.5 (7500 watts) amp, 2 Behringer EP4000 amps
10 58/57 mics, 1 SM86, 1 sE8, 1 sE2200, 1 AT2020, 2 AT2021
1 beta52 kick mic, 2 e609, 2 Radial J48 DI's, 1 PRO48 DI
2 4Bar lights, 1 4Play, 1 6Spot, 1 fog machine
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by gijsvandegeijn on Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:12 pm
Last weekend I opened a ticket, just to know what 'legacy' really means.
Presonus Support answered:

"The StudioLive RM32AI and the StudioLive CS18AI are now discontinued meaning that they are not longer available to purchase.
We are still working on new firmware for the mixers and they are still fully supported by technical support and for servicing and parts etc"

So, are they really going to solve (all) those bugs?

Last weekend, it was a farce.
A year of preparation for this show, many people have made their effort into it.
And guess what: NO (decent) recording because of the Flaky firmware (previously that worked as a charm).
I still do have to tell them...........

Fortunately Allen & Heath has the new SQ series, as "I heard from a friend".
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by manuelayala on Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:43 pm
for sure selling my rm 16. never was happy with it. pain to operate technical support here is harder then locating president trump now. is ludacris
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by samfisher1 on Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:46 am
I’d be fascinated to understand the global legal position of this situation. Effectively a trusted company has introduced software which has all but broken its own product, which should still be serviceable.

Simply not good enough Presonus.

This company has appalled me. There is simply no integrity and I now actively discourage people from buying Presonus products.

Sam
Desperately amateur, hopelessly passionate.

MacBook Pro - Mid 2017 - OS 10.13.6
3.1GHz Intel Core i7
16GB 2133 MHz RAM

StudioLive RML16AI
UC 2.8.0.48221 (Jul 5 2018)
UC Surface 2.9.0.49213 (Sep 10 2018)
Firmware v13731

Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Apple MainStage 3.0
IO configured as Aggregate Device
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by kylebennett on Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:03 pm
The word discontinued as it applies to the AI/RM mixers means that they are no longer for sale.


They have promised that development and support for these mixers will continue for the next few years.
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by samfisher1 on Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:32 am
I think we understand the ‘discontinued’ definition. What we have seen, however, is;

1) A firmware update and series of software updates that don’t work as well as previous versions

2) Ongoing software ‘issues’ that remain unfixed for over a year (metering over FireWire)

3) Features that were sold but never implemented (midi integration)

I have no doubt that RM will be ‘supported’ but there is no evidence to suggest that it will be to the level that many of us disgruntled users deserve.

RM series and Active Integration was once the Trophy Wife of Presonus. We’ve all been ditched for the hot younger model.

Sam
Desperately amateur, hopelessly passionate.

MacBook Pro - Mid 2017 - OS 10.13.6
3.1GHz Intel Core i7
16GB 2133 MHz RAM

StudioLive RML16AI
UC 2.8.0.48221 (Jul 5 2018)
UC Surface 2.9.0.49213 (Sep 10 2018)
Firmware v13731

Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Apple MainStage 3.0
IO configured as Aggregate Device
User avatar
by kylebennett on Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:27 am
While I definitely agree it feels that way, the metering issue, while not as severe with the SL3 mixers, happens over USB. On the facebook group, Ray has said getting the firewire lag fixed with both types of mixers is a high priority for them.
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by wahlerstudios on Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:46 am
I read somewhere that Facebook is known for fake news, but as I am not am member there and never will be, I can't evaluate what the term "high priority" means. Probably it means "within the next 5 years". But I know that you are asked to keep things confident, because the Facebook group is non public, so there is no new news and no new perspective for AI users. No company works on something that is now officially discontinued...

There seems to be a basic conflict between Firewire and UC Surface 2.x, which can not be solved. Just have a look how many steps there were between the current and the previous firmware. Probably this was not because of developing new features (which were then "routed" to the Series III family), but because of trying to solve the Firewire problem. The current firmware is good for the CS18AI, but bad for all other AI products.

I really think it would be wise to go back to UC 1.8.x and - why not - make it look like UC 2.x. It would be a self-contained version of UC, like UC 1.7.6 for the "classic" mixers. Nobody of the AI users is interested in compatibility to other PreSonus products, so this "universality" can be skipped for the sake of a finally fully working firmware for the AI products (Firewire display lag, cascading, Smaart).

And where is the trade-in program for Europe?

SL16 | 32R | 16R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Docks | Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | LD Systems Curv 500 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Artist 4.5.4 & Pro 3.5.6
User avatar
by sjc193 on Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:49 am
kylebennett wrote Ray has said getting the firewire lag fixed with both types of mixers is a high priority for them.


Gosh I hope so. . .

StudioLive RM32AI
Rackmount Windows 8.1 PC Quad core 8G ram
ASUS RT-N66U Dual Band Router
IPad2, IPad Air 2, Studio One 3 Pro, 1 DBX Driverack 260
2 QSC KW 153's, 2 Turbosound TMS-1's
2 OHM MR450D Subs with Kilomax 18inch drivers
4 EV ZLX-12P's, 1 TurboSound iX15, 2 Yamaha S115V's
1 Crest Pro-Lite 7.5 (7500 watts) amp, 2 Behringer EP4000 amps
10 58/57 mics, 1 SM86, 1 sE8, 1 sE2200, 1 AT2020, 2 AT2021
1 beta52 kick mic, 2 e609, 2 Radial J48 DI's, 1 PRO48 DI
2 4Bar lights, 1 4Play, 1 6Spot, 1 fog machine
User avatar
by kylebennett on Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:42 pm
wahlerstudios wroteProbably it means "within the next 5 years".


This year is what was said.
User avatar
by peterbenson1 on Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:52 pm
Hello, all.
I'm one of the disgusted owners of PreSonus CS18AI which I purchased at the $1899.USD price a few years ago.

I foolishly did so primarily because I supposed it would constitute an elegant surface controller for PreSonus StudioOne v3 -- and I ignorantly presumed the simple operation known industry-wide as "jog/shuttle" might miraculously be enabled for StudioOne from CS18AI's transport section.

Moreover, the PreSonus CS18AI's non-intuitive, non-userfriendliness in operation with PreSonus Studio One v3 -- despite its having been marketed as if the two are a perfect match, came as an utter shock to me. It's as if the StudioOne DAW controller function of CS18AI was more or less an afterthought -- with no plastic silkscreen sheets on offer (to my knowledge), for properly labeling the CS18AI for Studio One use.


And to think that after all these many, many months, CS18AI to my knowledge, never enjoyed the ability to control other DAWs' or video editing applications' channel faders, pan, mute, transport and other functions as does my Mackie MCU Pro, which I had hoped CS18AI would have replaced! I perhaps I erroneously presumed PreSonus has had their customers' best interests at heart, in the design of their hardware.

But PreSonus was shortsighted if not impossibly gullible, having designed the CS18AI to accommodate a daughter board which sported an immature, non-upgradable variant of AVB (having been designed and supplied by a 3rd-party company), without protecting their own interest, as well as us customers -- in ensuring that they and we aren't left holding the bag, should that little 3rd party company go out of business -- or, eh, get bought out by some possibly sinister entity desirous of throwing a monkey wrench into PreSonus' AVB and AI mixer ecosystem!

Why on earth didn't PreSonus better safeguard the life of their AI series gear by including some slots for swapping out an offending AVB board or even a Firewire daughter card, etc., etc., with a replacement card that actually fixed known issues?

PreSonus has not Emailed me, to advise me of their trade-up program which just ended in December 2018 either. I only discovered it existed via several message posts ahead of my entry here.

I'm perturbed, with little sense of hope that PreSonus has any program in the works, for CS18AI owners like myself, who simply wanted a cutting-edge surface controller for Studio One.

I hate to leave the realm of PreSonus software and hardware ownership but I'm having difficulty with this mess, as it reminds me of nightmarish AVID/Digidesign/M-Audio shenanigans against their very own customer base.

If anyone has some useful info to guide me here on out, please, do let me know here; and if PreSonus is listening I really wish they'd send me an encouraging note here, or via Email.

Peter B.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Last edited by peterbenson1 on Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.

PreSonus Studio One 3.2 Professional | 3.2GHz iMac i5 quad, 24GB, 1GB nVidia GT 755M | MOTU 8M (Thunderbolt) | MOTU micro lite (MIDI) | AKAI Advance 61 | MACKIE Control Universal | ARTURIA Spark Creative Drum Machine | ROLAND TB-3 | ROLAND MV-8800 :roll: | KRK Rokit 8 Gen 3 | JBL Monitor 4206 on PIONEER VSX-1124 with VELODYNE SPL 10" sub |
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by sziebe on Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:02 am
If you sell unfinished products with the notion that you will update them later, you commit to having an ethical contract with the customer based on confidence.
We as customers agreed to enter this contract by giving them our money – placing our trust and confidence in the promises from Presonus.

Presonus didn’t fulfill their part of the agreement. And now they ignore us after happily accepting our money. Now our trust and confidence are answered with discontinuation and total radio silence.

Being willing to treat your customers this way really defines a company. If they are willing to break such a “contract of confidence” with their customeres once they may do it again.
New customers should be aware of this!
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by davedunbar3 on Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:13 am
I really like presonus products. I mix mainly in studio one. I don’t record loads of instruments and have a few keyboards and drum machines. I am by no means loaded with cash. I have an rm16ai rack mixer. I thought the cs18ai would be the perfect fit for my small setup. I bought the hype. I also feel like I was mugged by presonus for the £1800 it cost me. My confidence in the company disappeared overnight. I really would like to get shot of the cs18ai and buy a series 3 but would also rather shoot myself in the head than give them any more of my money...if you are reading this presonus, you have let a lot of loyal customers down big time.
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by wahlerstudios on Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:47 am
May I ask what you think a Series III console can do different? Besides that it is a mixer and not a controller, I don't see too many differences. The DAW (Studio One) integration in both "worlds" is very similar, if not the same. I could easily adopt what I had arranged for my CS18AI and transfer it to the SL16 I use now.

What you need is an AVB switch (doesn't need to be the PreSonus switch) and a router, because UCNET can find Studio One only via WLAN. Once set, the network will always find the connected items, including Studio One.

It's really fun to use DAW mode. Studio One can be the "second heart" of your RM16AI. You can and should use the latest firmware on the CS18AI (because of Sync Select and some major bug fixes), but you should stick to the former firmware of the RM16AI.

SL16 | 32R | 16R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Docks | Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | LD Systems Curv 500 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Artist 4.5.4 & Pro 3.5.6
User avatar
by christhomas15 on Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:09 pm
I use the CS18ai and the studio 1810 it's like having a series 3 for studio one 4 . If I need to have Hui support for reason 10 I use the behringer bcf2000 good enough for me

Presonus Audiobox USB
Presonus Studio1810
presonus Atom
StudioLive CS18AI
Presonus SW5E
Studio one artist
Studio one 4 Professional
Behringer BCF2000
Reason 10
M Audio Keyrig49
M Audio AV40
Presonus Eris E5
Presonus Temblor T10
Akai XR20
CAD Audio GXL 2200
Shure SRH 840
EX 29 Extreme Isolation
OS Windows 10
24Gb Ram
Amd 8320
Sapphire RX 580 Nitro +

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