I have been trying to figure out how to do this for a few weeks now, and I have given up trying to figure it out on my own. I have gone through the forums, and there was one person that asked about it... But to this newbie the way they talk about doing it is way over my head. So what I am asking is... Is there anybody that can explain in layman's terms how to do it? I would greatly appreciate the help!
From a few years back but still applicable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVc6Z-i28sU
Indeed, what lucky67 wrote is true. Studio One does not route the signal back to the original channel. You need to send the processed signal to another channel on the mixer, which makes the whole thing useless. It does not work as promised.
The Series III mixers seem to have a bug...
Using plugins live on the mixer with a DAW is doable. How it works depends on your setup.
If you are using the mixer as a standalone it will work just fine. Please following this,
To use plugins live you need to do the following,
Please ensure that you version of Studio One is fully up to date.
Connect a mic to channel 1 on the mixer and correctly gain stage the mic.
Launch Studio One and ensure that you have selected the mixer as the interface and create a new song using the template for the mixer. This is important as it will automatically create all the correct inputs and outputs on a 1:1 basis, which is perfect for using plugins live
You need to ensure that the digital send source for the channel is set to "Analog"
Now set Ch1 in Studio One to record, you should have a signal being sent from the mixer into Studio One
Insert the plugin onto the channel in Studio One
On the mixer, change the channels input source to USB, this will now pickup the signal from Studio One
Set up the plugin to your desired setting and you will be good to go.
Now, if you have a console and a rack mixer for inputs. This changes the setup and 1:1 plugin usage is not going to be possible. For example, if you say have a kick drum on Ch1 from the stage box. The main mixer's Ch1 is set to "Network" to accept that signal from the stagebox. If you then have Studio One open, and on Ch1 you can see the kick, you can not send that channel back out on Ch1 as on the main mixer you would need to have that source set to USB to get that signal, and this can not be as it needs to be "Network" to get the audio from the stagebox.
This would explain this for you.
"...change the channels input source to USB, this will..."
No, it will not. Pressing the USB button leads to an immense internal feedback in Studio One, and simply disconnects the channel of the SL mixer from audio. Only if you route the processed channel to any other channel, you can hear the processed signal. If you want to use a Studio One plug-in, you have to sacrifice two channels. This makes no sense, especially because it used to be different (with the AI products and Firewire).
The network problem of Studio One is a traditional problem. We had it already in the AI family and the workarounds are known. This is NOT the problem and bug I have described.
"You need to ensure that the digital send source for the channel is set to 'Analog'"
I was reading your text again and compared it with my latest & greatest UC Surface on iPad. There is no "digital send source", only input sources (Analog, Network, USB, SC Card). The "Digital Send Options" on the second page deal with pre and post processing, which has no influcence on Studio One and/or DAW mode.
"On the mixer, change the channels input source to USB, this will now pickup the signal from Studio One".
This cuts off the input signal and causes a heavy feedback within Studio One. The processed signal does not find a way back to its channel on the StudioLive mixer. I have no idea if this has ever worked on Series III mixers (never checked it because I don't need processing per channel). It did work on the AI mixers and FireWire…
Great, I'm looking forward to your video! Then I will see what I made wrong...
I was checking the rest of the whole subject today and I don't see any difference to the integration of Studio One as we had in the times of Active Integration aka SL and RM mixers. I loaded a Studio One song I had created for the purpose of using plugins live in channels and buses and I only had to change four routing settings in inputs and two settings in outputs of Studio One. Everything works exactly as it worked with my RM32AI and my CS18AI - except the inserting of plugins to individual channels.
Thís song (it could also be called template) makes it possible to replace the effects of the Series III mixer by effects of Studio One like Room Reverb or MPX-i reverb (FX A), Beat Delay (FX B), Chorus (FX C) and Flanger (FX D). Additionally I am using Mix 15 and 16 as "effect chains" for purposes like adding special effects to drums or vocals. The four effects of the Series III mixer are also available (the returns are muted), so in this "song" I can use 10 effects for mixing live. All effects of Studio One come back to the livemix via Tape In (Digital In).
It's fun to hear really good effects and to be able to add some special processing to each of them like Binaural Pan set to 200 %. Suddenly the effects start shining... I think I will complete my "template" for the Series III mixers and hope for the miracle of getting the inserting of plugins back. Recording is now possible via SD card, so this is tempting...
Digital Send Source option ONLY shows up when you have selected one of the 3 Digital Input Source Types (Network, USB, SD Card).
By default, Analog Input source automatically routes the channels signal into the USB Send (DAW Input).
When you select USB, you MUST change the digital send source back to Analog to avoid the feedback loop. This will tell the mixer to route the Analog signal, not USB input, to the computer.
You are so quick to point fingers before learning the equipment.
Yes, this is what I figured out today thanks to Jonny Doyle. The Digital Send Source option is available AFTER one of the digital input sources is selected and USB needs the Digital Send Source set to Analog. Then you really have to be fast to prevent the feedback loop... Or you take a different approach.
I have suggested some changes to the "how-to" description above, which can help to understand things better.
I hope your question finds its answer now. Based on the text of Jonny Doyle (Feb 02, 2019), some information was added, which will make inserting of plugins possible and usable. Remember that this works with analog inputs only. "Mic 1" stands for all physical inputs of your console or rack mixer.
1) General Remarks
* Ensure that your mixer is running the latest firmware, v1.10.
* Ensure that your version of Studio One is fully up to date (Studio One 3.5.6 or 4.1.3).
2) Prepare The Mixer
* Launch UC Surface.
* Zero Out the mixer; this will also reset all internal routings.
* Connect a microphone to channel 1 on the mixer and correctly gain stage the mic. The input of channel 1 must be set to Analog.
3) Prepare Studio One
* Launch Studio One and ensure that you have selected the StudioLive III console or rack mixer as the interface.
* Create a new song using the template for your specific mixer (e.g. SL16). This will automatically create all the correct inputs and outputs on a 1:1 basis.
* Press the blue Listen Button on track 1. Now you see a signal coming from your mixer to Studio One.
4) Change Routing And Add Effect/Plugin
!!!!! * Mute track 1 in Studio One or set fader 1 to infinite (no signal passing through). By default all faders are set to 0 dB, which will immediatley cause feedback when you change routing.
* In UC Surface (or the mixer's touchscreen) go to the settings page of channel 1 and change the input of channel 1 from Analog to USB.
* Press the Routing button and set "Digital Send Source" to "Analog" (see picture in previous post)
* Insert an effect/plugin to track 1 in Studio One and raise the fader of track 1 to 0 dB. Now you can hear the effect routed back into the track1/channel 1.
Enjoy using your plugins...
As mentioned before, inserting plugins to single channels is possible only when the physical inputs of the console or rack mixer are used. In a network setup (rack mixer = stagebox or monitor mixer, console = FOH) processing has to use buses, which come back to the console via Tape In with USB selected as input source. There is no template available in Studio One for this kind of setup, but it is easy to make changes to existing templates. Here is a short "how to", the console and Studio One should already be connected and running:
1) Create a new song with the template of your mixer (I have used "StudioLive 16 Session").
2) Disarm all tracks.
3) Go to songs settings (Audio I/O), rename Main L/R to "From SL"; apply/confirm the setting.
StudioLive Mixer (preferably via UC Surface):
4) Link Mix 15 and 16, select the mix master, go to settings, select Post; go to the next page -> Routing -> USB -> Send and select USB 37 as left send and USB 38 as right send. Set panning if needed, raise the fader(s).
5) Go to Main mix level, find the return channel "Tape In" and select USB as input source.
6) Select track "Main L/R" and add a bus; the input source should already be "From SL"
7) Insert an effect to the bus (e.g. Chorus); the bus is already routed to "2TrackIn L/R".
8) Activate the "Listen function" (blue button) on track 17.
When you now raise the "Tape In" fader on your mixer, you should be able to hear the effect and be able to add Chorus to the mix you send to Studio One. I would recommend to add "Binaural Pan" as insert and set Width to 200 %, because this makes the effect more distinguishable.
I think this is the easiest and fastest way to add additional processing to your live mix. Why a stereo send? Because all plugins work in stereo and a lot of instruments or instrument groups and even vocals use stereo panning. It's nice to hear gated reverb on panned toms or the rotor plugin on an electric guitar... Of course, you can also use a mono send (e.g. Mix 16), like FX A-D are also mono sends with their own stereo returns.
This is a basic setup, but it allows you to add any (!) effect and plugin available in your Studio One. Basically you would probably choose Chorus and/or Flanger and Mixverb for gated reverb. Mix 15+16 is your "stereo send" and Tape In your "stereo return". Whatever you want to add to your mix, this is the way to do it.
There is (much) more possible, but it is important to understand the basics. The next step would be to replace/bypass the built-in effects of your mixer (reverbs, delays) and use effects of Studio One. You can also add more sends (stereo and/or mono). You can also make DAW mode part of this concept, because your console shows what is happening in Studio One. If you want to see a plugin on your computer screen, simply select it on the touchscreen of your console. The plugin shows up right away...
Basically this also works for a rack mixer, but using Studio One with a console and DAW mode is the "dream team".
As mentioned before, inserting plugins to single channels is possible only when the physical inputs of the console or rack mixer can be used. In a network setup (rack mixer = stagebox or monitor mixer, console = FOH) processing has to use buses, which are routed to the console via "Tape In" with USB selected as input source. For this kind of setup there is no template available in Studio One. Actually it doesn't need one, because the setup is not really difficult. Make sure that your console/rack mixer and Studio One are connected (USB + UCNET) and running. It makes sense to zero out the mixer.
1) Create a new "empty" song without a template.
2) Add four mono tracks, add one stereo track. Give the 5 tracks a common color.
3) Add a bus to each track. Color the buses in another common color.
4) Go to songs settings (Audio I/O), inputs. Create a new mono input, rename it to FX A and set USB to 33.
5) Add three more mono inputs (the USB channels to automatically set to 34, 35 and 36), rename the inputs to FX B, FX C and FX D.
6) Add a stereo input (USB 37+38), rename the input to 15+16.
7) Deselect USB settings for inputs L+R.
8) Go to the output page, rename "Main" to "S1 OUT" and set USB to 37+38.
9) Apply and confirm the settings.
10) Select "FX A" as input for track 1, rename track to "FX A IN".
11) Select "FX B" as input for track 2, rename track to "FX B IN".
12) Select "FX C" as input for track 3, rename track to "FX C IN".
13) Select "FX D" as input for track 4, rename track to "FX D IN".
14) Select "15+16" as input for stereo track 5, rename track to "15+16 IN". All characters will displayed correctly in DAW mode.
15) Activate the blue listen button on tracks 1 to 5.
StudioLive Mixer (preferably via UC Surface):
16) Link Mix 15 and 16, select the mix master, go to settings, select Post. Go to the next page -> Routing -> Send -> USB and select USB 37 as left send and USB 38 as right send. Set panning if needed, raise the fader(s).
17) Select FX A (settings page remains open), select 33 as USB send.
18) Select FX B, select 34 as USB send.
19) Select FX C, select 35 as USB send.
20) Select FX D, select 36 as USB send.
21) Go to Main mix level, find the four FX return channels and deselect "Main" (on first page) on each of them (A-D). This will disconnect the mixer's effect returns from Main L/R.
22) Change input source of "Tape In" to USB.
Now you should see signals coming in and going out everywhere, when you raise faders. Remember that all sends are set to postfade, which means that you have to raise the faders of the Main mix level first. The next step is to add effects as inserts to the buses.
23) Insert "Room Reverb" and "Binaural Pan" to Bus 1. Set pan to 200 %.
24) Insert "Beat Delay" to Bus 2.
25 Insert "Chorus" to Bus 3.
26) Insert "Flanger" to Bus 4.
28) Insert "Mixverb" to Bus 5.
29) Copy/drag "Binaural Pan" to Buses 2, 3, 4 and 5. Pan should always be the last insert.
30) Rename Bus 1 to "FXAOUT"
31) Rename Bus 2 to "FXBOUT"
32) Rename Bus 3 to "FXCOUT"
33) Rename Bus 4 to "FXDOUT"
34) Rename Bus 5 to "1516OUT". Seven characters can be displayed correctly in DAW mode.
Everything is now ready to be checked and adjusted. The goal of this approach is to replace the mixer's effects by Studio One plugins, or any plugin you might want to use. Mix 15+16 is an additional stereo FX send, which can be used for drums/keyboards/sub mixes (any non-mono signal). FX A-D are mono sends, which leads to a different result. Of course you can add more mono and/or stereo sends and additional processing in "S1 OUT".
It's worth to activate DAW mode some time, because you can adjust most of the things via the console's touchscreen and scribble scripts. In "Mix/FX Masters" the faders of insert buses are available, in "User" mode the tracks are added.
Enjoy the great sounds of Studio One!
Wow! Talk about leaving out a critical step. I have been messing with this for 2 days, only to discover this thread.
1. Once I have switched to USB on the SL 32s, where is the "Digital Send Source" control located on the Studio Live. I can find it in UC Surface (and that does indeed get me thru put from Studio One back into my source channel), but is "Digital Send Source" someplace on the console?
2. Now that I actually have pass thru from the source (a mic routed in to the SL 32s via XLR input on channel 8) to Studio One and back to Channel 8 on the Mixer console, When I toggle between Analog and Digital (USB from Studio One), I am hearing what sounds like a second slightly delayed or doubled voice in the mic input as it comes from Studio One
- I have no effects on in studio one or on the console in the Fat Channel. Just raw
- So analog and USB digital pass thru from S1 should sound the same yes?
- But the digital audio as it comes from Studio One sounds like it has an effect on it. Odd.
My guess is it is the Block Size setting on the UC home page? If I set it from 512 - 16 the mic sounds basically the same, kinda doubled (like delay with a really fast single delay time). If I set it to 1024 and above the doubling spreads out and gets really dramatic. Not repeating, just more time delay.
So is this latency / lag? Is it my computer CPU or some other setting? Is the Block size in UC on the home page where i am supposed to set the "Buffer Size" to decrease latency or is there some other place for the setting?
I currently have the StudioLive 32, Universal Control, and Studio One 3 Pro up to date as of this writing.
My processor is a Core i5-2500 3.3GHz 4 core
8 gb of RAM
Win 7 home premium 64 bit
Trying to get into the theme again...
1) There is no Digital Send Source" control on the mixer/touchscreen, for whatever reason. You need UC Surface to use this function.
2) This is a normal behavior. There is always a small lag between the direct signal and the signal which goes through the DAW (unprocessed). You simply have to decide which one you want to "listen" to. It's not a good idea to use both signals simultaneoulsy. When using effects like reverb or chorus, this does not matter at all. It gets critical with percussive sounds, but also real fast computers will never get the lag/latency away completely.
You can play with the block size, the 512 is just a figure which should work with any computer. You can also chanmge settings in Studio One.
Hope this helps.
wahlerstudios wroteTrying to get into the theme again...
Yes it does help, thanks for allowing me to resurrect an old-ish thread. It is a very helpful thread though. Might even be worthy of sticky status if this forum allows such.
1. With having to use UC that is no problem.
2. What I an needing to do is use the pass thru from the Studiolive to Studio One and back to use in a Live performance application so I can use other effects on vocals live that are not available in the Studiolive.
So the delayed or doubled voice I'm hearing coming from Studio One back into the Studiolive that sounds like it has a delay effect on it, is that Lag/Latency?
I have worked out the issues I was having finding no difference between 512-16 block sizes. Now I can hear differences, So right now I am using 64 as a block size and it is pretty tight, almost no difference when I toggle (on the SL) between Analog and USB input. But I have a acquired an occasional click / pop. I assume due to the low Block size I am using. So I am going to try 128 or 256 and see if I can live with that.
Currently need to use Waves Tune Real-Time on 6 vocal mics as well as better reverbs than what is in the Studiolive (even with all upgrades and reverb plugins).
Is there a better way to do this than what I am doing other than purchasing the Waves SoundGrid? (can't do that). Do Live shows just put up with the slight Lag / Latency?
My plan is to upgrade my Quad core i5 to an i7 quad with hyperthreading and go from 8gb to 16gb. But would this even help if you are saying this is somewhat "normal behavior"?
The forum would allow this, but a moderator or an administrator has to do this. I don't think there is anybody of that group of persons active and/or available here anymore. PreSonus has no real interest to support their own forums. They were officially handed over to the users...
What you hear from the delayed signal coming back from Studio One is called lag or latency and describes the (mostly short) time the signal needs to pass through the computer. There is more latency when there is are additional A/D (analog/digital) or D/A conversions necessary. A fast computer will have less latency and experimenting with block size also helps to improve everything to work together, but "zero latency" is nothing else than a fairytale. It's simply not possible, regardless how much money you spend.
I have heard the wish for "better reverbs" not only related to PreSonus equipment. It's no doubt that there are plugins with superb reverb emulations, but they do cost their money. As a user of PreSonus hardware you have access to a Lexicon "teaser" reverb, which is quite usable. It's part of the "Studio Magic Plug-In Suite" and it has several presets and a "mix" (dry/wet) function. All other controls are deactivated. Try this reverb and compare it with the two reverbs of Studio One and the several reverbs which are part of the mixer's firmware. You will find out that the Lexicon reverb has a "Dual Pan" built in, which simply expands the stereo image and makes the reverb sound "better". Studio One has that plug-in available. Add it AFTER one the of the reverbs and listen. Suddenly there is not so much difference between Lexicon and PreSonus...
And one more thing, which is easily forgotten: No reverb and delay sounds "good" without equalization. Add 2 dB at 5 kHz on the send and on the return and listen. Suddenly everything starts shining...
Yes, there could and should be some improvements for the available reverbs, but they do NOT sound "bad". They just need a little more "treble" and "pan".
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