StudioLive RM32Ai and RM16Ai Mixers & UC Surface with QMix Ai
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dominickabbatielloiii wroteI can't say how disappointed I am at long it is taking for MIDI to be implemented. That is the main feature that I purchased the RM16 mixer for.

I convinced the board for our small community theatre with our very limited budget to purchase this system so, for most shows, we can use one operator to run the show. The plan is (was as it seems, since the MIDI implementation will never come) to have our lighting board or sound program send MIDI commands to fire cues on the RM16 mixer.

Now I have major egg on my face as other options were much less expensive.

How do I go back to them and say we spent $1,000.00 on a mixer that does not work as advertised?

Don't say 'Well if it was't working when you bought it shame on you". The mixer was advertised as having MIDI and there are jacks on it for MIDI so, we had an expectation that MIDI would work.

$1,000.00 isn't much to some people but that is a major investment for our 99 seat converted two room school house. Every penny counts to us so we can keep the doors open.

Major disappointment. I can't in good coincidence recommend a company that leaves customers out to dry without any recourse except to buy new equipment.

I guess our neighboring community theatre made the right decision not going with the RM series and using a conventional mixer board.


It's a real disappointment indeed... I've been waiting, since 2014 when I bought the RM32AI, for MIDI implementation. It's almost halfway through 2018 already! I was hoping to use QLab to trigger scene changes as well.
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by alexandrgorscov on Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:57 pm
Why not write an official letter from the community to require them to publish at least an SDK or sources if they don't want to work on it anymore?
We could raise funds and develop needed firmware ourselves
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by allendotson on Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:27 am
alexandrgorscov wroteWhy not write an official letter from the community to require them to publish at least an SDK or sources if they don't want to work on it anymore?
We could raise funds and develop needed firmware ourselves


This! Allowing the community to continue development on a system that is more capable than the series 3 system would be a very good thing. As a programmer, I would love this.
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by alexandrgorscov on Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:00 am
Anyway, it is almost discontinued and mot going to be manufactured anymore. Who cares if the software/firmware would be developed by the community and shared by the community. Even, I think, it would be better - because the hardware may become very popular
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by roblof on Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:10 am
Since the mixers and speakers are based on Linux it should be possible to request the gnu/gpl-related stuff, installer plus the additional propetiary binaries from Presonus to build a complete system.

In addition to this I’m still saddened to see that presonus still doesn’t comply to the gnu/gpl license in general, even though I’ve brought it to their attention several years ago.

alexandrgorscov wroteAnyway, it is almost discontinued and mot going to be manufactured anymore. Who cares if the software/firmware would be developed by the community and shared by the community. Even, I think, it would be better - because the hardware may become very popular

iMac late 2015, Behringer X-Touch, X-Touch ONE, M-Air mr18, X-Air xr18, x32 with Dante/aes67, x32-rack with Dante/aes67, s16 and sd16 stageboxes, p16 monitor system, TurboSound iQ-speakers, Waves x-wsg with SoundGrid server, Motör 61, BCR-2000, StudioLive 24, FirePod 10, Apogee Ensemble, Alesis HD24, Studio One Pro v4.1.1, Notion 6, NI Komplete 11 Ultimate, Halion 6, Nuendo 8.2, Ableton Live 8 Suite, Reaper 4, misc Line6 gear/software, True Temperament Frets on basses and guitars, Korg Kronos, Roland vk-7, Behringer Deepmind 12, Behringer Neutron, Yamaha 02r.....
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by alexandrgorscov on Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:25 am
roblof wroteSince the mixers and speakers are based on Linux it should be possible to request the gnu/gpl-related stuff, installer plus the additional propetiary binaries from Presonus to build a complete system.

In addition to this I’m still saddened to see that presonus still doesn’t comply to the gnu/gpl license in general, even though I’ve brought it to their attention several years ago.

alexandrgorscov wroteAnyway, it is almost discontinued and mot going to be manufactured anymore. Who cares if the software/firmware would be developed by the community and shared by the community. Even, I think, it would be better - because the hardware may become very popular


Once they don't put it to attention we could start a project by ourselves which would be rude enough and more difficult, but possible.
May be we have a lawyer here who could bring them to attention officially?

It is still possible to run an independent firmware project. The trouble is that if they get angry, we may lose any official support and updates .
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by gothink1 on Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:01 am
Hi everyone. This seems to be the place to mention some thoughts on this. I am a current mix system owner and I have contacted Presonus as well as several prominent AVB component manufacturers about how this problem could be solved.

Of course the PreSonus answer is always the same given one, actually copy paste : (

I realize PreSonus has made several statements on this and basically it looks like there will never be support between the two eco-systems. However I would like to add some information for consideration:

I have spent time researching 1722 and 1722.1 inter-oprability or conversion. I then contacted a number of AVB developers about this subject. (One of them even knows someone at PreSonus and called them regarding it) Three of the companies: AudioScience, Attero Tech, and XMOS.

Each one told me basically the same thing: I would have get PreSonus on-board to share code and issues to make any progress. BUT each one of them indicated that they felt it was purely a software/mapping issue. But of course no one will ever know or get a chance to do anything unless PreSonus releases the code and makes it open to us.

This led me to the next question which involves the SW5e switch which I purchased. How is it possible for this device to work in BOTH eco systems but yet neither one can communicate with one another while connected to it!? AudioScience makes a Custom Hono AVB device AND Hono AVB controller software which DO exactly that between 1722 and 1722.1 devices (including clock support) Unfortunately the AVB software does not see the my RM32ai or RM16ai, but it does see my AVB enabled Mac. (The device is made to work with thier own components at the moment and only 1722.1 AVB 3rd party devices)

One explanation from PreSonus is the developer closed its doors and did not complete the coding. Even if this is the case, why not develop a new card? If you are worried that everyone owner will want one for free, then stipulate that there is a cost, set that cost at the level at which is sensible but pays for the production and development.

I truly believe that PreSonus has everything to gain by trying to solve this problem of the "two eco-systems cannot work together". It doesnt need to be FULL support, but at least some usabillity between the two systems. In this way people can upgrade piece by piece, adding mixers when they actually want or need the lastest greatest features. As it is now they are forcing people to choose between them, and even worse forcing current loyal customers to basically abandon the old for the new which leaves a bit of a sour feeling. Not to mention the "future" promises that still havent happened.

If resources are the main issue, I am willing to spearhead a kick-starter style campaign to help solve the problem. Maybe its basically a new RM/AI thunderbolt or USB card, maybe its a converter box, maybe its actually retrofitting with a new board if necessary -- Some of us will pay to keep our systems out of legacy.

I think there are viable solutions which could be:
    1. Open source code release for 3rd party development
    2. Funding for a new card by a kick-starter campaign
    3. Manufacture of new card (the networking is in the card as evidence by the fact there is a Dante card)
    4. Turn the series into the "Presonus Dante" solution exclusively and actually build up on that with new products (this would mean simply dropping the old AVB and letting the series be only Dante -- with some functionalities reworked)
    5. A simple rebate exchange AVB for Dante card program (with some cost incurred by customers and some by PreSonus)

Thats my 2 cents... would love to hear what others think....

I will keep my system in the end but it is shame to see such a versatile system that currently has features unavailable in the series III go to waste. I am currently beta testing the new firmware and still have some hopes to see what will happen, but I am not holding my breath.

StudioLive AVB 16_32_48 AI Mix System

CS18AI | RM32AI | RM16AI | SW5E Switch
Huawei WS322 5Ghz Router | Static Manual IPs
3x iPad | Mac mini | Apple FW to Thunderbolt Adapter
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Previously owned: SL 16.4.2 | 1818VSL
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by dirkalexander on Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:54 am
Any updates ?? When will we get MIDI ?
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by wahlerstudios on Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:02 am
We can celebrate our RM's fourth birthday soon. On September 1, 2014 PreSonus introduced the "StudioLive RM-series Rack-Mount Digital Mixers", and the " MIDI I/O" was mentioned. On June 8, 2016 PreSonus introduced the second generation of the rack mixers, the RML series, with added line inputs. Interestingly there is no mention of MIDI in the 2016 press release. Half a year later (January 19, 2017) a press release says "PreSonus Unveils Third-Generation StudioLive Consoles"...

I does not look like that there is any development going on for the RM/RML rack mixers and the CS18AI controller. The new firmware (beta phase since April) does not bring "new" features, at least I haven't discovered any. The Series III mixers have no MIDI at all.

Just saying...

SL16 | 32R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Pro 3.5.6
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by wahlerstudios on Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:32 am
"It looks like there will never be support between the two eco-systems" (post of gothink1 on June 26, 2018)

I just wanted to add this photo to the brillant post of gothink1. The photo shows where everything is ending. Both mixers show up in UC Surface and you can toggle between the riders, but the mixers stay separate, they share no functionality. The AVB switch used in this constellation was a SW5E. Next time I will try the MOTU AVB switch, but I don't expect a different result.

It's very interesting to see UC Surface following to the mixer selected and to compare the two generations of rack mixers in all details...

Attachments
DSCN8585_800.jpg

SL16 | 32R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Pro 3.5.6
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by wahlerstudios on Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:34 pm
The photo says it all...

Attachments
DSCN8579_800.jpg

SL16 | 32R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Pro 3.5.6
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by slamecka on Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:04 am
I just purchased an RML16AI and I like the suggestion made a couple posts ago about Presonus offering a discount on the Dante interface card to RM/RML owners. For those of us that have no interest in the CS18i, the AVB function is useless since it's not compatible with the 1722.1 specification. Essentially we have a non-networkable mixer sold as a networkable mixer.

This seems like a reasonable request since Presonus is apparently not planning to develop a new AVB interface card for the RM series. The cost of the current Dante card is pretty high at $599US in relation to the cost of a new RML. Sure, other manufacturers' Dante interface cards are more expensive but they are going into mixers costing 2x - 5x the cost of an RM series mixer. I also note that Yamaha only charge $399 for the Dante card that goes into their TF series which is a direct competitor to Studiolive Series III mixers.

I'm baffled by Presonus apparently foregoing Dante as a future option. There's is frankly no way AVB will catch Dante in the marketplace and today's consumer values flexibility. AVB - despite being an open-standard - looks like a lock-in move by vendors as there are so few AVB solutions on the market.

So come on Presonus - if you're abandoning Dante at least throw a bone to the people who bought into AVB in the RM/CS18i by giving half of that solution a cost effective off-ramp to Dante. It will at least give you the oppty to keep half of those buyers as future Presonus customers once AES67 becomes prevalent in the market (provided you have a future AES67-compliant Dante interface to replace the current one). Less money today is more money in your pocket tomorrow and more satisfied customers. You won't be able to ignore Dante at the rate of adoption in the industry.
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by deonstassen on Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:50 pm
Can Presonus at least update firmware to allow the CS18AI to also be used as a control surface for other DAW's than Studio One (i.e. Pro Tools, Cubase, etc.)? At least that could also help soften the blow of feeling I now own a brick.
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by jackflash1 on Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:02 pm
...muble...muble...I read a bit of forum ... in your opinion if i connect two RM32 in cascade through the AVB what type of signals goes from tue AVB? the channels or the mixs?
And if you connect them by AVB but not activate the cascade mode and in one mr32 selects all networks inputs, do channels arrive to the second mr32?
is the protocol the same for both?
Considering exist the function stage box, this means that the channels via AVB come out.
What do you think about this?
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by wahlerstudios on Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:00 pm
Cascading two RM/RML mixers is only possible via AVB. There is no other option. Cascading means that the channels of both mixers are added to one 64 channel mixer. The outputs will NOT get cascaded, but merged. Both mixers share the same signals on all 19 outputs (16 Auxes, L/R, Mono).

No cascading leaves both mixers as they are. They have no connection and share no signals. They show up as separate mixers in UC Surface and the UCNET page of a CS18AI.

The only way to "split" input signals is to cascade the mixers and de-cascade them immediately. Now 32 inputs are shared (can't be routed), but unfortunately the outputs get separated... This makes the second RM/RML (the Slave) simply useless.

There is no dedicated "stage box function" or mode, but if you place one RM (Master) at FOH and one RM (Slave) on stage, cascade them and select "Network" as input of all channels on the Master, the Slave on stage works as stagebox. This reduces the amount of input channels to 32 (minus the two AVB channels 31 and 32), but you can use one "set" of channels for PA mix and the other set for monitor mix with separate processing.

It's a pity that the new versions of firmware and UC Control/Surface make cascading a Russian roulette experience...

There are some interesting threads in the CS18Ai Control Surface forum (viewforum.php?f=233) and this one might be especially interesting: "cs18ai with rm32ai and rm16ai" (viewtopic.php?f=233&t=31674).

SL16 | 32R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Pro 3.5.6
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by colinbart on Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:12 am
slamecka wrote So come on Presonus - if you're abandoning Dante at least throw a bone to the people who bought into AVB in the RM/CS18i by giving half of that solution a cost effective off-ramp to Dante. It will at least give you the oppty to keep half of those buyers as future Presonus customers once AES67 becomes prevalent in the market (provided you have a future AES67-compliant Dante interface to replace the current one). Less money today is more money in your pocket tomorrow and more satisfied customers. You won't be able to ignore Dante at the rate of adoption in the industry.


In order to implement AES67, Presonus doesn't even have to design and manufacturer a new card. Audinate provides the framework for Dante interface upgrades. It is the responsibility of the manufacturer to implement it in the form of firmware updates for the cards. AES67 framework has been available from Audinate for two years now. Every other manufacturer jumped on it and upgraded the firmware for their Dante option cards immediately. It should take a couple weeks to a couple months at most to implement, given the resources Audinate provides to manufacturers. This would allow both ecosystems to communicate with one another. It's a no brainer.
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by Karyn on Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:57 am
The Dante card is about the only thing in the entire AI/RM range that actually works as advertised. I'd hate for them to screw it up as well trying to implement AES67 that most people wouldn't use..

Karyn

-------------------------------------------------------
SL32ai, RM32ai, SL328AI x2, SL18sAI x2, all Dante.
Studio 192, Digimax FS, Faderport,
Sonar Platinum, Studio One.
http://refer.waves.com/dzDVn
Dante Level2 certified.
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by christhomas15 on Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:52 am
deonstassen wroteCan Presonus at least update firmware to allow the CS18AI to also be used as a control surface for other DAW's than Studio One (i.e. Pro Tools, Cubase, etc.)? At least that could also help soften the blow of feeling I now own a brick.


To be honest if every cs18ai owner and rm owner would vote in the studiolive series feature request for Mcu and Hui support we may have a chance but we all have to vote. I would love to use the cs18ai with the SSL mixer in reason 10 rewired In studio one 4 pro. But we have to vote

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