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Say I use another DAW and want to mix individual channels on the SL3 16

PC DAW Channel 1..32 Output -> SL3 16 (EQ, Fatchannel, Mixing, ...) -> Master Output

How many Stereo channels can I utilize and mix over USB at the same time? 16? 32? 55?

I'm struggling to find an answer on the internets, users manual and even at a music shop that question couldn't be answered... an Australian Youtube Video claims it's 16 and that I could mix max. 32 channels in total, another source said 48 via ASIO + all the hardware inputs.

If I'd use then all available channels, what about performance? How will that ASIO driver behave when I have these channels loaded with Samples, Softsynths and Plugins? Comparable to regular (dedicated) audio interface, like from Focusrite or alike?
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by wahlerstudios on Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:17 pm
https://www.presonus.com/products/StudioLive-16/features

The StudioLive 16 is a "38x38 USB recording interface" with 32 mono/16 stereo channels, plus 3 stereo signals (buses). Physically the SL3 16 has 16 inputs preamps, the other 16 inputs are available via USB or AVB. I suppose you can use the plugins of the console like the "Fat Channel Collection", but all other processing needs to happen in your DAW.

Hope this helps.

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by BrentJammer on Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:28 pm
wahlerstudios wrotehttps://www.presonus.com/products/StudioLive-16/features
I suppose you can use the plugins of the console like the "Fat Channel Collection", but all other processing needs to happen in your DAW.

It's clear to me that I cannot use VSTs inside the SL3, that wasn't my intention. My question was more, how would the SL3 USB audio interface and it's ASIO driver behave if the DAW is loaded with VSTs and the CPU is already 50% going - latencies, dropouts, buffer size - will it be similar to a regular audio interface in the price range of say 300 USD?

I don't want to compare it to my RME, but it's gotta be like average at least and shouldn't choke on a regular song.

Do you own by any chance the SL3? It's kinda hard to get someone on the line who has actually tried that - I know, most people won't use their SL3 like that, but not only for Live (capital letter intended) gigs this is an interesting application that would e.g. off load EQs and Compressors from the DAW and CPU. On top it would give one crew member the opportunity to operate the mix while the other is performing.

Question is at what price, technically, it would come.

wahlerstudios wroteHope this helps.

Yes it does, thanks for your answer! :thumbup:
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by jpettit on Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:52 pm
All the people using it in DAW mode use the SIII in conjunction with S1.
I get <10 ms RTL response.

How many tracks and how many plugins do you consider normal?

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by BrentJammer on Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:08 pm
jpettit wroteAll the people using it in DAW mode use the SIII in conjunction with S1.
I get <10 ms RTL response.

How many tracks and how many plugins do you consider normal?


I would probably use all those 16 stereo channels and have loops, softsynths and effects plugins on every channel. It's not unusual that demanding softsynths are amongst those, like NI Kontour, Form or UVI Falcon and sometimes plugins that use lookahead (although I could cut that out if really necessary). I can play an arrangement like that with max. 512 samples buffer size on my laptop, resp. 256 on my PC with RME card. I would be ok with a buffer size up to 1024 but not more.

You could really help me with this, for me this means yes or no, it will be the main application for the SL3.

We have some budget but we`re small, so a "fail buy" in that price range would hurt us pretty hard, as always it`s "buy this or buy that"...
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by jpettit on Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:11 pm
BrentJammer wroteSay I use another DAW and want to mix individual channels on the SL3 16

So you don't want to use it as a Controller? Just a mixer to record in another application or in a live performance?
BrentJammer wroteHow many Stereo channels can I utilize and mix over USB at the same time? 16? 32? 55?
as mentioned 38
BrentJammer wrote1) how would the SL3 USB audio interface and it's ASIO driver behave if the DAW is loaded with VSTs and the CPU is already 50% going - latencies, dropouts, buffer size
2) - will it be similar to a regular audio interface in the price range of say 300 USD?
1) Same as any other 2.0 USB ASIO driver
2) Yes, but why are you comparing a $2000 mixer to a $300 USB Audio interface?
BrentJammer wrote1) I would probably use all those 16 stereo channels and have loops, softsynths and effects plugins

2) on every channel. It's not unusual that demanding softsynths are amongst those, like NI Kontour, Form or UVI Falcon and sometimes plugins that use lookahead (although I could cut that out if really necessary). I can play an arrangement like that with max.

3) 512 samples buffer size on my laptop, resp. 256 on my PC with RME card. I would be ok with a buffer size up to 1024 but not more.

4) You could really help me with this, for me this means yes or no, it will be the main application for the SL3.We have some budget but we`re small, so a "fail buy" in that price range would hurt us pretty hard, as always it`s "buy this or buy that"...
1,2) That is small. I was asking in context to using it as a DAW controller in S1 which has a practical limit now of approx ~ 64 channels

3) So you are asking playback performance only? ( that is handled by Drop out protection in S1. )

4) Understand but what is the context fo your questions?

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by BrentJammer on Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:49 am
jpettit wroteThat is small. I was asking in context to using it as a DAW controller in S1 which has a practical limit now of approx ~ 64 channels

3) So you are asking playback performance only? ( that is handled by Drop out protection in S1. )

4) Understand but what is the context fo your questions?


Not sure what you meant by "That is small" - if you're saying that buying potentially useless equipment for 2000-3000 USD doesn't hurt the average SMI or Studio.. well what can I say?

No, I wasn't asking about usage with Studio One, I said "Live" as an example or "another DAW". So "dropout protection" won't come into play here, and even if it would, it can't do magic and make track play on hardware that is too demanding for that hardware.

I'll explain it again: SL3 USB Audio Interface offers 16 Stereo channels as we have found out in this thread. I want to assign these 16 individual channels to individual tracks in e.g. Ableton Live and then mix on the SL3, add compressors and eq and receive a stereo output from the SL3. My question was, if that is possible at all, if there are any major downfalls, high latency, high CPU usage or dropouts to be expected, or if a high ASIO buffer size will be needed. Also I asked if anyone ever tried that.

Context I also gave before: Live performance with mainly digital audio sources and the possibility do make quick mixdowns at applications like Video production, where it's not intended to produce a finished "radio ready" high quality mix but where production speed matters.

Why compare a $2000 mixer to a $300 audio interface? Because one is a mixer where the audio interface is only part of it. Would it be a better to compare a $2000 mixer to a $2000 audio interface?
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by jpettit on Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:59 am
We just trying too help.
Maybe someone else can give you your answer.

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by matthewgorman on Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:21 am
Are you using Ableton for backing tracks to be combined in a live performance? Are you using any VST in Ableton or is all processing on the mixer?

I think I follow what you are asking, but want to make sure before we get into it. If the above describes your situation, then latency should not be an issue. If you are only using a daw for playback of backing tracks, that would put most of the processing load on the mixer, and it can most definitely handle your audio. Since you would be playing to those backing tracks, latency is not a factor.

As was said earlier, the mixer itself is 38/38.

Matt

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by BrentJammer on Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:38 am
matthewgorman wroteAre you using Ableton for backing tracks to be combined in a live performance? Are you using any VST in Ableton or is all processing on the mixer?

I think I follow what you are asking, but want to make sure before we get into it. If the above describes your situation, then latency should not be an issue. If you are only using a daw for playback of backing tracks, that would put most of the processing load on the mixer, and it can most definitely handle your audio. Since you would be playing to those backing tracks, latency is not a factor.

As was said earlier, the mixer itself is 38/38.


We'll definitely not only play audio on these 16 Tracks - like I said before, it will be what you'd consider a "full song". VSTi - also demanding ones - FX, and some processing (main part will be outsourced to the mixer).

But: We're not expecting to put external audio through Ableton and processed there. The main "interface" will only be the mixer as physical unit. Sure it would be great if we could keep buffer sizes as low as possible, that why my comparison with the $300 audio interface. If it's as good as that in the described scenario, consider it bought. But I have to know before, please understand, I have no actual idea what kind of audio interface is built into the SL3, if it's a more generic one just to transfer audio or whatever? I struggle to find that information too, so my best option would be someone to try it out. Just load 16 Softsynths on 16 tracks, add some plugins on top and route the channel outputs over SL3 USB Audio interface. How's it performing?
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by matthewgorman on Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:53 am
Well as far as the interface portion goes, it is anything but generic. Mic pres and converters are top notch. At this point in time, I am seeing similar RTL that I was getting on Firewire with the RM16 (5ms or so), however my projects are not like yours. I am almost 100% audio, but with track counts up 45-50 with average VST usage. Its always PC/Driver dependent, but if your last interface was acceptable, you will be in the same neighborhood.

If you have a test song I could run that for you. It would need to be S1 instruments and soundsets, but if you can get that to0 me I can test for you. Otherwise, purchase from a retailer with a good return policy as a safety net, however I don't think you will need it.

Matt

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Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bit, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor
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S1Pro V2 , Melodyne Studio 4, Nomad Factory Studio Bundle, Waves , RM16, Studio 192, DP88, Faderport, Central Station Plus, Yamaha HS50 Monitors, Sceptre 6-8 Monitors, Temblor 10.
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by BrentJammer on Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:25 am
matthewgorman wroteWell as far as the interface portion goes, it is anything but generic. Mic pres and converters are top notch. At this point in time, I am seeing similar RTL that I was getting on Firewire with the RM16 (5ms or so), however my projects are not like yours. I am almost 100% audio, but with track counts up 45-50 with average VST usage. Its always PC/Driver dependent, but if your last interface was acceptable, you will be in the same neighborhood.

If you have a test song I could run that for you. It would need to be S1 instruments and soundsets, but if you can get that to0 me I can test for you. Otherwise, purchase from a retailer with a good return policy as a safety net, however I don't think you will need it.


Thanks mate. My current audio interface is from RME so I'm generally speaking very happy on that front.

I didn't find the time yet to make "S1-only" song but would really like to take your offer. Maybe you could just slam Mai Tai with a preset loaded, a midi clip and some plugins on a single channel and clone that 15 times? Would be good enough for me and you'd receive my eternal gratitude. :)
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by matthewgorman on Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:58 am
Let me see if I can scare something up. Did I mention that I don't do much midi? :oops: :oops:

Matt

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Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bit, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor
StarTech EC13942 34mm Expresscard
S1Pro V2 , Melodyne Studio 4, Nomad Factory Studio Bundle, Waves , RM16, Studio 192, DP88, Faderport, Central Station Plus, Yamaha HS50 Monitors, Sceptre 6-8 Monitors, Temblor 10.
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by fripholm on Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:51 am
When I got my SL24SIII and had to learn the workflow and its ins and outs (it is my first digital console), I streamed about 20 channels of audio from Reaper to the mixer over ASIO. I did all the mixing, compression, EQ etc. on the board - no effects in Reaper.

As I wanted the lowest possible latency, I did all the testing at a buffer size of 32 and 64 samples (6~7ms roundtrip latency @ 64 samples). At both of those settings audio clicks and crackles about 3~5 times a minute with the current drivers on my machine (Win10, i7-7700K, 16GB RAM, audio and system drives are SSDs). At 128 samples it's less but still there. It's slightly better on my laptop - maybe because there's less hardware to handle.

When I play the same practice projects on the same machine through my Fireface UFX+ (over Thunderbolt) at those latencies, there are no clicks at all. But we're talking RME here. So there's still room for improvement regarding the drivers for the SLIII mixers but I think at the latencies you intend to use yours with you should be fine - if a tiny click here or there is acceptable.

Hope this helps.
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by BrentJammer on Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:19 pm
matthewgorman wroteLet me see if I can scare something up. Did I mention that I don't do much midi? :oops: :oops:


You could just drop in some random notes. It doesn't really matter, it's more about the performance.

fripholm wroteWhen I got my SL24SIII and had to learn the workflow and its ins and outs (it is my first digital console), I streamed about 20 channels of audio from Reaper to the mixer over ASIO. I did all the mixing, compression, EQ etc. on the board - no effects in Reaper.

As I wanted the lowest possible latency, I did all the testing at a buffer size of 32 and 64 samples (6~7ms roundtrip latency @ 64 samples). At both of those settings audio clicks and crackles about 3~5 times a minute with the current drivers on my machine (Win10, i7-7700K, 16GB RAM, audio and system drives are SSDs). At 128 samples it's less but still there. It's slightly better on my laptop - maybe because there's less hardware to handle.

When I play the same practice projects on the same machine through my Fireface UFX+ (over Thunderbolt) at those latencies, there are no clicks at all. But we're talking RME here. So there's still room for improvement regarding the drivers for the SLIII mixers but I think at the latencies you intend to use yours with you should be fine - if a tiny click here or there is acceptable.

Hope this helps.


Yes, this was exactly the info I was after and pretty much what I expected. No, pops and clicks aren't acceptable to me, call me special. ;) But you were talking about buffer sizes I expect neither to go that low. May I ask what was running in that project, Reaper wise? Couple of softsynths, some audio tracks?

Thanks very much to both of you!
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by fripholm on Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:50 am
BrentJammer wrote May I ask what was running in that project, Reaper wise? Couple of softsynths, some audio tracks?



Those were different projects, each with 16~20 tracks of audio. No effects, softsynths etc. in Reaper - just pure audio streaming to the mixer on different USB audio channels. Any processing was done on the SL24III. I was trying to simulate live mixing to learn the console. Admittedly I was pushing the board by using extremely low latency.

As I said before, at the latencies you are intending to use it, you should be fine if your computer can handle it.

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