StudioLive RM32Ai and RM16Ai Mixers & UC Surface with QMix Ai
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For me, the regret is for being so thoroughly left behind by the manufacturer is so short a time. It's called churning customers and it is an extremely bad business practice.

That being said, I have no need currently for something new, and I continue to use my Presonus gear, a SL2442AI and an RM16AI.

The problem, maybe, for Presonus is that I will never buy another piece of their gear, ever.

They probably don't care, though.

Doug
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by gbam55 on Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:11 am
Hi Ray,

December 29, poste. Where are we since ? My understanding no where. Would be nice to have an update even if its to tell us that you have a new mixer series now, faderport 16 and so hard luck guys, you backed the wrong horse!

Sorry to be blunt, but if we are advised features and fixes are coming we are reasonable to expect some delivery.

Thanks for listening & hopefully replying.

Cheers

Presonus StudioLive 16.4.2, 16.0.2 (x2), Studiolive mobile, Mac mini i7 Quad core, 16GB, MacBook Pro 2012 (1T Ssd & with all the Ports you need) Studio One Professionnal. Mélodine editor, Fader Port, StudioLive RM32-AI, CS18-ai, KRK VTX4 monitors and KRK 10s.
KRK 10 3 monitors. Yamaha O1v, KRK rokit 10 3 monitors. RCF 725-II PA and RCF 325 stage monitors. Turbosound TQ425/455 DP PA.
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by gppresonus on Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:55 am
Another thread seems to cross this - "RM & CS18 Updates, new Series III rack mixers, and what does it all mean" - Ray said on 27/9/17
"Hi everyone, I want to take a moment to share a few things that will hopefully answer some questions you may have.

•What's up with the updates for the RM and CS18?
•Will AVB be updated on the AI/RM mixers?
•Will we ever see MIDI implemented on the RM mixers?
•With the new rack mixers announced, is PreSonus done with the RM mixers?

What's up with the updates for the RM and CS18?
We have an update that's been waiting in the wings but it can't be released due to some bugs. The short story is we implemented some new things, fixed a bunch of stuff, and in the process some things broke. Due to resource and project conflicts, we haven't been able to complete those fixes to release the update. Basically, the work took longer than planned/scheduled and we ran out of time and had to make the hard decision to wait on this release so we wouldn't miss other deadlines and commitments. We have been continuing to finish up the work squeezing in time on it when we can. We'll soon be at a place where we can go back to dedicating full resources to getting this update out.

This update will fix the bugs with cascaded RM mixers, add the go remote functionality for Smaart, add the select sync functionality with UC Surface, and a couple other smaller items. This also won't be the last update for the RM and CS18. We're in the process of planning and scheduling another update to come after this one.

Will AVB be updated on the AI/RM mixers?
The AVB implementation on the StudioLive AI platform (AI console and RM/RML rack mixers) does not include the full 1722.1 implementation required for interoperability with other AVB devices. The chipset used was developed by a third-party provider using the 1722 specification before the clocking requirements were ratified in 1722.1. The supplier of this solution never completed the 1722.1 implementation before their development was suspended. After researching and trying several methods to complete the implementation, we’ve been unable to solve this issue.

AVB networking on the AI platform will continue to work as a solution for connecting an AI console with an RM/RML rack mixer as a stage box, as well as cascading two RM/RML mixers to create a 64-channel system. Interoperability beyond this, such as use with Apple computers or third party AVB products, will not be possible unless you are using Series III mixers with our new AVB solutions.

Will we ever see MIDI implemented on the RM mixers?
This has been a hot topic around the office. We've made some progress in Engineering on the back end infrastructure needed to support this. There's still some work to do. I've learned the hard way not to make promises or provide date estimates so I'll just leave it at this is something we want to deliver for you.

With the new rack mixers announced, is PreSonus done with the RM mixers?
No, we are not done with the RM mixers. The new rack mixers are a necessary part of the Series III platform and ecosystem. The RM mixers are still being sold and supported. We still have updates planned for the RM mixers."
RayT
Sr Product Manager
PreSonus
User avatar
by gbam55 on Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:36 am
gppresonus wroteAnother thread seems to cross this - "RM & CS18 Updates, new Series III rack mixers, and what does it all mean" - Ray said on 27/9/17
"Hi everyone, I want to take a moment to share a few things that will hopefully answer some questions you may have.

•What's up with the updates for the RM and CS18?
•Will AVB be updated on the AI/RM mixers?
•Will we ever see MIDI implemented on the RM mixers?
•With the new rack mixers announced, is PreSonus done with the RM mixers?

What's up with the updates for the RM and CS18?
We have an update that's been waiting in the wings but it can't be released due to some bugs. The short story is we implemented some new things, fixed a bunch of stuff, and in the process some things broke. Due to resource and project conflicts, we haven't been able to complete those fixes to release the update. Basically, the work took longer than planned/scheduled and we ran out of time and had to make the hard decision to wait on this release so we wouldn't miss other deadlines and commitments. We have been continuing to finish up the work squeezing in time on it when we can. We'll soon be at a place where we can go back to dedicating full resources to getting this update out.

This update will fix the bugs with cascaded RM mixers, add the go remote functionality for Smaart, add the select sync functionality with UC Surface, and a couple other smaller items. This also won't be the last update for the RM and CS18. We're in the process of planning and scheduling another update to come after this one.

Will AVB be updated on the AI/RM mixers?
The AVB implementation on the StudioLive AI platform (AI console and RM/RML rack mixers) does not include the full 1722.1 implementation required for interoperability with other AVB devices. The chipset used was developed by a third-party provider using the 1722 specification before the clocking requirements were ratified in 1722.1. The supplier of this solution never completed the 1722.1 implementation before their development was suspended. After researching and trying several methods to complete the implementation, we’ve been unable to solve this issue.

AVB networking on the AI platform will continue to work as a solution for connecting an AI console with an RM/RML rack mixer as a stage box, as well as cascading two RM/RML mixers to create a 64-channel system. Interoperability beyond this, such as use with Apple computers or third party AVB products, will not be possible unless you are using Series III mixers with our new AVB solutions.

Will we ever see MIDI implemented on the RM mixers?
This has been a hot topic around the office. We've made some progress in Engineering on the back end infrastructure needed to support this. There's still some work to do. I've learned the hard way not to make promises or provide date estimates so I'll just leave it at this is something we want to deliver for you.

With the new rack mixers announced, is PreSonus done with the RM mixers?
No, we are not done with the RM mixers. The new rack mixers are a necessary part of the Series III platform and ecosystem. The RM mixers are still being sold and supported. We still have updates planned for the RM mixers."
RayT
Sr Product Manager
PreSonus


Thank you very much for stansmitying Ray's reply.

Could you please ask forum admin to cross reference the threads or group them together & send out the link. That way we only have to follow one thread.

Thanks

Presonus StudioLive 16.4.2, 16.0.2 (x2), Studiolive mobile, Mac mini i7 Quad core, 16GB, MacBook Pro 2012 (1T Ssd & with all the Ports you need) Studio One Professionnal. Mélodine editor, Fader Port, StudioLive RM32-AI, CS18-ai, KRK VTX4 monitors and KRK 10s.
KRK 10 3 monitors. Yamaha O1v, KRK rokit 10 3 monitors. RCF 725-II PA and RCF 325 stage monitors. Turbosound TQ425/455 DP PA.
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by lancelyons on Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:53 pm
Ray,

Hope you and the team are doing well. You had posted

'We're also planning to offer some promotions on Dante option cards for those who can address their needs by going that route. I'm trying to finalize those deals now so we can roll them out ASAP. Once they are rolled out, registered users will get an email about it and I'll also post it here.'

I initially wanted the AVB solution to work. Since it cannot, I am interested in seeing what you might have in mind on a promotion for a Dante card solution.

What would be the bees knees is if the Dante solution had firmware options to allow 96k, and a home run for me if AES67 is in the mix...

You see - I appreciate the heck out of my CS\RM system. It sounds great, it works flawlessly. Since we know AVB recording isn't in the cards anymore - I am certainly ready to put something into place that will work so that the PC stays at FOH with the CS.

Looking forward to hearing back soon.

CS18ai, RM32ai+ MOTU AVB switch, MOTU 1248 AVB
DAWs - Sonar Platinum, Studio One
PC - home built
WIN 10
Intel i7- 6700K
Gigabyte Z170 UD5
Thunderbolt, USB C, Ethernet AVB ready, Firewire 400 and 800
32 gig Corsair DDR4
2 HD, 1 TB each
27" PLANAR touch screen
Buncha WAVES V9.2 64bit
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by wahlerstudios on Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:14 pm
The post of Ray Tantzen, mentioned by gppresonus, is the final word about AVB I. We know now that there will be no further development and no new features coming. The plan of bringing back features of AVB II to AVB I will not work. The settings of 44.1 and 48 kHz for both network systems (AVB and Dante) are long-term fact. 88.2 and 96 kHz have been cancelled already years ago.

Dante will not bring Smaart and UC Surface to FOH, but Dante makes you enjoy the integration of Studio One with your CS18AI. An alternative is to use a second RM mixer at FOH, cascaded as "Master" via AVB (a RM16AI does the job). I have posted a photo of this setting here: https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?p=151348#p151348. What you see on the photo is Studio One connected via FireWire, running plug-ins. The DAW button of the CS18AI allows full control. Additionally Smaart RTA is running in UC Surface.

You would need only one Dante option card for 32 input channels (cascading of two RM mixers for 64 input channels is not possible via Dante), so even if all Dante cards are expensive, they get you going. A second RM mixer will probably be more expensive.

SL16 | 32R | 16R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Artist 4.5.4 & Pro 3.5.6
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by lancelyons on Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:22 am
Wahler Studios...

I hope all is well. I'm assuming that your post may have tried to help answer mine. If not, please forgive me.

I appreciate that AVB recording is not going to happen, or that Dante doesn't support 96k, and that smaart will not work. Even that another RM unit could provide what I am looking for - and believe me, your option is certainly do-able IF there was a special price break on an RM16ai.

My note is to find out if there is an answer from Ray concerning the statement a few months ago about a Dante option for registered RM owners. I believe it was possibly a reduced price on that card.

I appreciate all of your comments and suggestions, you are an asset to this forum..

Take care,

LL

CS18ai, RM32ai+ MOTU AVB switch, MOTU 1248 AVB
DAWs - Sonar Platinum, Studio One
PC - home built
WIN 10
Intel i7- 6700K
Gigabyte Z170 UD5
Thunderbolt, USB C, Ethernet AVB ready, Firewire 400 and 800
32 gig Corsair DDR4
2 HD, 1 TB each
27" PLANAR touch screen
Buncha WAVES V9.2 64bit
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by mwatzal on Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:37 pm
The additional RM Mixer is at this Moment the best way to get the most features. I would prefer a „Bridgebox“ like a small RM Mixer with 4 Audio in/out, Firewire for Audiorecording and 3 AVB Ethernet connection ( to RM on Stage, to CS18, to Macbook/PC for StudioOne Control).
It would be a good solution for all CS18 user and for engineers who use TouchPC at FOH. They have Inputs for Talkback and Playback Music ....

... Presonus have all knowhow to do this.

greetings Michael
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by robgrigg on Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:42 am
wahlerstudios wrote
DSCN7211_800.jpg
Regretting my purchase...? Is AVB recording the most important thing? Or Midi? I do know what was promised and never came true and I remember how long we had to wait for some features, but I think there are a lot of people like me, who use the RM/CS stuff every day and are happy with it. Let me show you a picture, taken on Sunday evening shortly before a concert with several choirs and a vocal group. Next to the CS18AI you see Studio One on the computer screen with a plug-in of the "Studio Magic Plug-In Suite" (which I used exclusively for the vocal group). Stage and FOH are part of an AVB network, there is only one CAT5 cable transporting all inputs and outputs to and from stage. The AVB switch and the router are located at FOH, as well as the second RM mixer. My Mac mini is connected via FireWire, which makes all Smaart features available at FOH. I also had an iPad at FOH and another iPad on stage.

What would I need more? The Studio One integration is phantastic; I can use the new Fat Channel with the vintage EQs and compressors, I can use literally any plug-in, I can replace the four FX of the RM mixers with any effect I want, I can use any flex mix for bus processing, I can record up to 64 tracks, I can use the AVB audio features of the CS18AI at FOH or any input and output of the RM mixer at FOH...

No, I do not regret my purchase and I don't need anything "new". There is not much that the Series III products offer more. The DAW button on the CS18AI makes this system unique. The RM mixers and Studio One are well integrated and it is the CS18AI, which brings it all together.


Hi. Thanks for the post. Whilst I am disappointed in the AVB 1 situation I too believe that this is still very flexible gear.

I guess you had the RML on stage connected to a MOTU switch FOH and the cascaded RML and Mac connected to the same Switch?

If this were a RML32 on stage and am RML16 at FOH, if the Stage 32 is the master then it would utilise those 16 output channels and the output channels on the slave FOH16 would be unusable?
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by wahlerstudios on Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:57 pm
Yes, the RM32AI (Slave) was on stage, at FOH I had RM16AI (Master) and CS18AI, the Motu AVB switch and the router. It is important to understand AVB-cascaded mixers are ONE BIG 64 CHANNEL MIXER. "Master" and "Slave" has to do with the input channels. The "Master" mixer hosts input channels 1 to 32 into the 64 channel network, the "Slave" mixer channels 33 to 64. Any of the mixers can be Master or Slave and it doesn't matter where the mixers are located. One can also be in another room or three floors higher...

What I do is to internally "re-route" the Slave's input channels 33 to 64 to the Master's channels 1 to 32 (setting inputs sources to network), because I want to use them as channels 1 to 32 on banks A and B on the CS18AI and as tracks 1 to 32 in Capture. I never need more than 32 channels, therefore I can use the AVB network in its "digital split" function, allowing me to process channels separately for PA and aux mixes. Channels 1 to 32 are used for the PA mix and channels 33 to 64 for the 16 aux mixes.

The PA mixes (L/R and mono) and aux mixes are shared on both mixers, so I have aux 1 to 8 and the main mixes physically available on my RM16AI at FOH. This is perfect for additional recording (e.g. press/radio/TV) or for feeding a separate PA. A RM32AI at FOH would allow the use of auxes 9 to 16 for delay lines (built-in delay option).

Of course the RM mixer at FOH can also feed inputs into the network. AVB audio (the two combo inputs on the CS18AI) uses channels 31+32 in the network, "Tape In" and cue mix (headphone and control room outputs) use two additional/separate channels in the network.

There is a lot of flexibility in this system, but cascading does have its limits. There are simply not more than 64 input channels, 16 aux mixes and 4 FX mixes...

Attachments
DSCN6051_800.jpg

SL16 | 32R | 16R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Artist 4.5.4 & Pro 3.5.6
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by robgrigg on Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:44 am
Thanks, that makes sense.

I am looking to expand my RML16 and CS18 with the RML32

One point of clarity, so you have to connect your PC or Mac to the Firewire on the Master or could it be the slave? (Is this why you have the master at FOH)

R.
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by robgrigg on Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:47 am
mwatzal wroteThe additional RM Mixer is at this Moment the best way to get the most features. I would prefer a „Bridgebox“ like a small RM Mixer with 4 Audio in/out, Firewire for Audiorecording and 3 AVB Ethernet connection ( to RM on Stage, to CS18, to Macbook/PC for StudioOne Control).
It would be a good solution for all CS18 user and for engineers who use TouchPC at FOH. They have Inputs for Talkback and Playback Music ....

... Presonus have all knowhow to do this.

greetings Michael


Maybe a version of the Presonus network AVB switch with a firewire port?
User avatar
by wahlerstudios on Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:13 am
With two AVB cascaded mixers the "Slave" has no FireWire functionality any more. All processing seems to happen on the "Master" mixer, at least there is no way to control or use the processing happening on the "Slave" mixer. The computer needs to be at FOH, which is the intention of this "construction". I want Smaart, UC Surface, Capture and Studio One with Plugins at FOH, not on stage...!

The "bridge-box" is a suggestion I made a few months ago, but I would not recommend waiting for it. Get a second RM/RML mixer and enjoy the beauty of the RM/CS system!

SL16 | 32R | 16R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Artist 4.5.4 & Pro 3.5.6
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by brianyoung3 on Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:20 pm
One issue I've been trying to figure out. I have a computer attached to an RM32ai via firewire, and I've been using ableton on it, mainly as a Virtual sampler but also for some fx processing, no tracks. I have 12 channels routed into the RM via Firewire. I had intended on piping those in via AVB when I was originally sold the RM, but that's clearly not happening. In theory it should still work but it doesn't.

I can record all XLR inputs in Capture, but not the Firewire inputs.....I need to record the Firewire channels in order to capture a complete performance. Would those firewire inputs be transmitted via AVB to another RM so they could be recorded in capture on another computer connected to the second RM?
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by wahlerstudios on Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:10 pm
I can record all XLR inputs in Capture, but not the Firewire inputs.....I

This is correct with the RM/RML mixers, because their construction is based on a 1:1 routing (channel 1 to channel 1, channel 32 to channel 32). This means that your computer and your DAW (or Capture) can EITHER send OR receive data. There would be lots of streaming conflicts if you would add a second computer and a second DAW. AVB I+II does not change this basic routing and the 4 additional audio streams, meant for the CS18AI, can not be used separately.

There are different possibilites, if you involve a second RM/RML mixer and cascade them via AVB, expanding the channel count up to 64. This allows a re-routing of channels, e.g. play track 64 into channel 64, re-route it to channel 32 internally (select "Network" as input source), mix it and record the processed signal on track 32.

But using 64 tracks and 64 channels is not very handy, especially in a live situation, therefore I would recommend to separate musical input (Ableton) and recording. I would see a sampler as an instrument and handle it like an instrument. For that you don't need AVB at all.

SL16 | 32R | 16R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Artist 4.5.4 & Pro 3.5.6
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by metegok on Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:37 am
Hi...

Sorry if I missed the proceedings.

The context that Ray indicated for AVB is totally useless, since I will not be able to integrate with other AVB compliant systems. On my side, it comes to that I do not have any AVB capability in my mixer at all, and I believe that I am not the only one feeling like that.

Has Presonus declared a proposal for a solution for AVB yet? What is the make-up/alternative? When is the proposal coming? Presonus owes us that. We have given more than adequate time to Presonus to devise a "viable" solution. Now is the time for Presonus to act.

Regards,
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by wahlerstudios on Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:41 am
You might want to read what Ray Tantzen wrote on Sept 27, 2017 in this thread: "RM & CS18 Updates, new Series III rack mixers, and what does it all mean" (https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?f=222&t=27094). This thread has given a clear picture about what to expect from PreSonus in regard to the RM/CS family.

SL16 | 32R | 16R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Artist 4.5.4 & Pro 3.5.6
User avatar
by lancelyons on Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:17 pm
Ray,

Any word yet on the Dante option?

‘We're also planning to offer some promotions on Dante option cards for those who can address their needs by going that route. I'm trying to finalize those deals now so we can roll them out ASAP. Once they are rolled out, registered users will get an email about it and I'll also post it here.’

Take care,

LL

CS18ai, RM32ai+ MOTU AVB switch, MOTU 1248 AVB
DAWs - Sonar Platinum, Studio One
PC - home built
WIN 10
Intel i7- 6700K
Gigabyte Z170 UD5
Thunderbolt, USB C, Ethernet AVB ready, Firewire 400 and 800
32 gig Corsair DDR4
2 HD, 1 TB each
27" PLANAR touch screen
Buncha WAVES V9.2 64bit
User avatar
by dominickabbatielloiii on Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:01 pm
I can't say how disappointed I am at long it is taking for MIDI to be implemented. That is the main feature that I purchased the RM16 mixer for.

I convinced the board for our small community theatre with our very limited budget to purchase this system so, for most shows, we can use one operator to run the show. The plan is (was as it seems, since the MIDI implementation will never come) to have our lighting board or sound program send MIDI commands to fire cues on the RM16 mixer.

Now I have major egg on my face as other options were much less expensive.

How do I go back to them and say we spent $1,000.00 on a mixer that does not work as advertised?

Don't say 'Well if it was't working when you bought it shame on you". The mixer was advertised as having MIDI and there are jacks on it for MIDI so, we had an expectation that MIDI would work.

$1,000.00 isn't much to some people but that is a major investment for our 99 seat converted two room school house. Every penny counts to us so we can keep the doors open.

Major disappointment. I can't in good coincidence recommend a company that leaves customers out to dry without any recourse except to buy new equipment.

I guess our neighboring community theatre made the right decision not going with the RM series and using a conventional mixer board.
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by peterkellett on Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:46 am
The above option card on page 2 I would most definatly agree with, this option card is something that is needed and I would buy.

Image

I also think it's about time presonus gave us an update on where the firmware is going. Obviously there are some issues with series 3 and the rm so why not just branch them off at this point? Ray has said we will maybe get 1 or 2 updates at most, fix the issues of lag etc. Give us an option to control foh away from the limitation of a 4 meter fw cable, and i think most would be happy...
But give us an update...please....

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