jpettit wroteQuick answer. i just edited the post so maybe it's more clear unfortunately i'm not sure paying more for the more advanced version is going to make the pretty bad tempo detect on just a small clip that is relatively spot on any better than the essentials version. if melodyne's intial tempo detect is way off it just means i have to do more work in melodyne vs doing it in S1 except that now i'm paying an extra $300 for the privilege of a more cumbersome workflow. i just realized i could have tried a trial version to confirm but i'm running out of time. it sounds like you're pretty busy but i guess i really only want to know if my "child clip" method as described in the last post is a valid way to work with melodyne (doesn't present any problems) and perhaps increases the accuracy of the tempo detect vs having it work on an entire audio file regardless of the melodyne version. logically it seems that it should work best as i describe but it in fact makes things worse. knowing that answer would narrow down whether the technique is not good or my way of preparing the audio for melodyne detection is missing some key ingredient! thx |
Don't know if but it sounds like more trouble than it's worth. I know working with others who have tried piece meal have found that the algorithm have anomalies when there is less data to analyze.
I can share my experiences of tempo mapping over a decade. Manually mapping a tyipical 3-5 minute song can be done in about 20 minutes once you get the hang of it. M4 tempo mapping is the best on the planet. You will find no better. It can be very accurate right out of the box for many songs. Other songs are work. In some cases equal to doing it manually. Watch my videos for the best manual methods. If you do this a lot then learn the techniques. Manually then try out Editor version and their method to see what it brings to the party. Watch my advance videos for ways to work out dozens of challenges.
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jpettit wroteDon't know if but it sounds like more trouble than it's worth. I know working with others who have tried piece meal have found that the algorithm have anomalies when there is less data to analyze. thx for all the kind and patient help in the end i wound up buying the m4 editor upgrade and rewatching your videos. i think i'm actually getting much closer to what i want using the melodyne method it just needs some cleanup. i've noticed that it's tempo mapping pretty accurately but often doubling the detected tempo which with m4 editor tempo edit i can fix pretty easily. the only other thing it's doing sometimes is not judging the bar downbeat accurately which throws off the rest of the bars in the detected audio track. it appears i can use m4 editor tempo edit to adjust this per your videos i just need to go back for the details and hopefully do this in a way that all following bars "slip" forward or backward so i can adjust the downbeats with one downbeat to bar edit operation vs many?! i think the only other thing that would help but not really explained clearly by melodyne documentation is this notion of lining the audio on the bar beat in the S1 arrangement before going into melodyne b/c it apparently effects the results. - can this S1 bar alignment be on *any* bar measure whether 2, 3, 4... 20th bar, etc or does it have to be first or 2nd bar measure for whatever reason? - once the start location / transient of the main waveform of the audio track is aligned to a bar per above, does it need to be trimmed if it is lead by silence or a pickup / intro or is melodyne smart enough to disregard the silence or pickup audio? - in one video you bounce the audio before sending it to m4 for tempo detect? per above is this to "hide" the initial silence or pickup audio because m4 isn't smart enough to even if it's trimmed in S1 or to help m4 work better in some way vs just using the original audio event? |
presobr010 wrotehey thanks jpetit. there were too many nested quotes so i'm posting a separate quick reply to your last post I hear ya..! I've also been look at all the info i can find on tempo mapping with Melodyne & there is no mention of what version....so i was thinking it could be done in essential. A LOT of confusion could be avoided if it was stated right from the start. I have since tried to tempo map the way i've seen it described with Melodyne & even the old fashioned way....as described on Studio One Expert & i have to say, i think there must be a missing step. I wont go into the issues here, i'll start another thread later on after i give it another try... |
mickedge wrote1) all the info i can find on tempo mapping with Melodyne & there is no mention of what version....so i was thinking it could be done in essential.1) Yes, Celemony could be clearer. I failed to mention it in my training as I do not have Essential installed because Celemony only allows one version of their product to be installed at once. Quick answer: Essential = Make the best guess at tempo map. You CANNOT edit. Editor = Make the best guess at tempo map. You can edit. Studio = Make the best guess at tempo map. You can edit. Standalone = Make the best guess at tempo map across multiple tracks. You can edit and redefine. 2) Not familiar with Studio One Expert video on manual tempo mapping but my series on manual tempo mapping has been on this forum for six years. viewtopic.php?f=376&t=26510&p=147284&hilit=tempo#p147284
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jpettit wrotemickedge wrote1) all the info i can find on tempo mapping with Melodyne & there is no mention of what version....so i was thinking it could be done in essential.1) Yes, Celemony could be clearer. I failed to mention it in my training as I do not have Essential installed because Celemony only allows one version of their product to be installed at once. I appreciate the effort you have put into the videos you've done, i've just watched one again, as well as the Studio One Expert one i mentioned....& i am still convinced there is a critical step missing. After watching your vid meticulously, i cannot get any tempo changes at all & i dont even see how it is possible by following the steps in the vid. The only thing i dont have the same, is the macro. Do i have to learn how to make macros first...? I dont know..? Even in the Studio One Expert vid, the tempo changes just seem to appear with no explanation of how to do it. The guy in the video is NOT manually inserting tempo changes..! I am a complete loss. Over the last few months i have been just looking into doing tempo mapping, & now that its something i want to incorporate into my workflow, i am more confused about how to do it....& thats AFTER watching several videos literally dozens of times... What exactly am i not getting..? Thanks in advance |
Please be more specific.
Are you trying the manuanul non Melodyne method? The macro I use in that video is on the Exchange. Have you tried the Melodyne approach with a non essential version? Tell me how far you get before getting lost.
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jpettit wrotePlease be more specific. I'm using the manual method as described in video 2a in your timing training series video. specifically at around 6:10, where you run the macro to insert tempo changes. i dont have the macro (the exchange is not there anymore). Even without the macro, it should be possible right..? Well thats where i come unstuck, if i insert a tempo change, i just get the same tempo..? I honestly cant even see how it is possible unless i just insert tempo changes based on a best guess & i'm pretty sure thats not right. I've just had another attempt, recorded a guitar part, followed the steps on the video & i am nowhere near being able to get it.. I only have the essential Melodyne right now & upgrading to Editor is not on the cards at the moment.. cheers |
scottyo7 wroteAh hah. Sorry for the confusion, everyone. No, I was not confused as to the sale price. I was concerned of the deadline. Anyway, I did manage to buy the upgrade to Melodyne Studio at sale price. Thanks a lot. This thread can close. EDIT: Oh wait, sorry, I didn't see that one other user had another inquiry. EDIT: In the future, it would be really helpful to tell us when sales offers like these are going to end so that I can better prepare for this kind of thing.
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