50 postsPage 1 of 3
1, 2, 3
NB: Make sure you read the whole text and not just look at the results in the picture. There are some important findings in my testing that is not visible in the attached picture.


Hi,

I have had some time off these past few days, and I've dedicated some of it to a little test. I've based it on a little test that is available for download from http://www.dawbench.com/benchmarks.htm

I'm in the market for a new computer, and I decided to test my current system so I can have something to compare the alternatives to. I also decided to compare the performance of Studio One to Reaper.

Apple macOS has hyperthreading enabled by default. By downloading a package of developer tools for macOS, I've been able to turn off hyperthreading on the OS level. I wanted to check the performance of the DAW both with hyperthreading enabled and with hyperthreading disabled. Studio One has the ability to switch off virtual cores on a DAW level. I decided to test this as well, i.e. with hyperthreading enabled in the OS and with 4 cores disabled in the DAW.

The computer used is a 2012 Apple MacBook Pro 15" retina 2.6 GHz with 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD running Studio One 3.3.3 on Mac OS X 10.9.5 (Mavericks). The audio interface is a Lynx Hilo connected via USB 2.0.

Basically, I've done two different tests.

1. One is the standard DAW Bench test made for Studio One and Waves Kramer Tape. The test consists of 4 x stereo tracks of audio content, 1 x stereo track called Sine Monitor, 40 x stereo tracks of sine waves and 320 x inactive Kramer Tape insert plugins (8 per sine wave track) to be turned on one at a time until the session is overloaded and clicks and pops occur.

2. The other test is based on test no. 1, except I decided to load several instances of Cytomic's The Glue (with 2X over sampling) and all of them onto the same Channel, from the track called Sine Monitor. The reason for this, is because Studio One is unable to distribute the load of a single channel across multiple cores, so I wanted to test how many instances I could load onto a single Channel with and without hyperthreading. I also wanted to compare Studio One's behavior to Reaper's.

Here are the results (the numbers indicate the number of instances of the plugin I could run without hearing any pops or clicks; f.i. I could run 62 instances of The Glue on one single-channel in Studio One when using a 4096 buffer and with hyperthreading disabled in macOS):

Test results S1 and Reaper.jpg


As you can see, some of my findings are quite surprising. Especially the buffer of 2048 seems to act weird in Studio One on my system. Also, Reaper gives very, very different numbers on lower buffer settings compared to Studio One, but on higher buffer settings the performance seems closer and closer until Studio One actually marginally outperforms Reaper in certain situations (single-channel performance with the two highest buffer settings and hyperthreading disabled on OS level). I chose to write 0 plugins instances for the 32 buffer, but none of these DAWs could play back the project without clicks and pops when running my system on a 32 samples buffer, even though I didn't load any plugins. Another thing to notice, is that disabling cores in Studio One's options is not the same as disabling hyperthreading on an OS level. The latter seems to be a lot more efficient on my system when comparing the two; however, none of them can match having hyperthreading enabled when confronted with the multi-channel test. Reaper behaves differently. Studio One seems to be a lot more "picky" as to what settings I use, while Reaper's performance results are surprisingly consistent, no matter what settings I use. In Reaper, the differences between the different buffer settings and between the two hyperthreading settings are remarkably small compared to Studio One, but also here hyperthreading is more efficient for the multi-channel test, while disabling hyperthreading can be marginally more efficient also in Reaper when using smaller buffer settings in the single-channel test. All in all, when it comes to number of plugin instances, Reaper is quite a bit more efficient than Studio One on my system, especially when using lower buffer settings.

However, this was only the beginning of my testing. I also decided to test other behaviors of these DAWs. Here are some other very interesting findings:


Core distribution for heavily loaded single-channels:
Reaper seems to be able to spread all the plugins of that single track across multiple cores. In the OS's Activity Monitor (set to refresh displayed info every second) it shows an interesting behavior, where the load seems to alternate between the cores. One second it is perhaps 60% taxing core 1 and just around 10% for the other cores. And then, a second later, it is core 2 that is taxed 60% and the rest is around 10 %, and the next second it is core 1 and 3 that both are taxed around 30-40% each and the other two are around 10%, and the next second it is core 4 being taxed 70% and the rest around 10% and so on. It alternates. In Studio One it is pretty much all on core 1 when dealing with that single track.

Core distribution for heavily loaded busses:
One might think that a workaround for having more plugins on one track could be to route the track/channel to an intermediate bus and putting the required plugins there. Apple suggests this workaround for Logic in this article: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201838. This does not work in Studio One nor in Reaper. A continuation of the signal in this way will, as far as processing distribution, make it behave like it is the same track, and there is no difference in how many plugins you can load doing it this way compared to having it all on one track/channel. (Reaper might give you a mere 0.5% more efficiency routing it via such an intermediate bus, but my test was not really conclusive here and it was, if any, next to nothing in difference.)

Core distribution for heavily loaded master bus:
Interestingly, Studio One treats the master bus the same way as it does regular busses. This means that if the core is maxed out in the track/channel, you can not expect to load anything extra on the master bus. Reaper, however, behaves very differently. It seems to treat the master bus as an entirely separate thing and even though I had fully maxed out the single track, I could load an extraordinary amount of additional instances of the plugin onto the master track. Very different behavior compared to Studio One and one of the most interesting findings in this test.

Sends:
Studio One appears to put the signal going to a send on the same core as the track I’m sending from. This means that if I have a track/channel loaded to the max, I will not be able to send from this track to a bus/FX channel with a plugin on it. I could send other tracks to the bus/FX channel, but not the maxed out track/channel. It uses the same CPU core. Reaper behaves similarly in that you cannot expect to send from an already maxed out single-channel. However, and this is a very, very interesting point, in Studio One, setting up a send from your maxed out track/channel and muting it still acts as if I’m actually sending signal to the bus/FX channel. That button is apparently not an on/off switch but a simple mute, so even though I’m "switching off” the send (f.i. on the maxed out single track) and no audible signal is routed to the corresponding bus/FX channel, the CPU core still behaves as if it’s on. This is very important to know about: This is a mute, not an on/off switch. If you want to save CPU power by not sending to your reverbs f.i., it is not enough to turn off the send by pressing the blue button to its right, you actually have to remove the whole send (I’m not talking about removing the return, i.e. the bus/FX channel and its plugins, but I’m talking about removing the send instance from the track/channel you’re sending from). Muting it won’t help you save CPU power for your maxed out core. (And … I don’t know if any of you work like this … but if you use an old school approach where you have a template to mimic how an analog console workflow used to be, where you had sends for every track on the console and they were always set up to the same rack FX, then you can imagine how much extra cpu you’re using for having those unenabled sends just sitting there waiting for you to dial them in, audible idle, but still engaged CPU-wise.) Oh, and by the way, Reaper does not do this when it comes to muting the sends. The M-button for Reaper's sends looks like a mute, but actually is an on/off switch.

Latency:
Studio One feels responsive also when loaded heavily. Reaper, on the other hand, behaves quite differently. With higher buffer settings it takes a while before it starts up after pressing play. This feels really weird after having used Studio One for a long time now. This latency can be very annoying also when mixing. With my most extreme loads we’re talking up to several seconds of latency before playing back (depending on what’s on the tracks and the master bus). This lack of responsiveness also goes for stopping the Reaper project. The playback cursor and the time/bar counter stops immediately after pressing stop, but the tracks in Reaper continue to play after you’ve stopped. And, even more interesting, the track with the heavy load of plugins is naturally more delay compensated, so in Reaper (at least in my test) this makes the normal audio tracks have one amount of latency while the single heavily taxed track has a longer latency. In other words, the test track with a lot of plugins continues to sound out of the speakers relatively long after the other tracks have stopped. With a heavy load on the master channel and a heavy load on one single channel but nothing on the others, I got some results with huge latencies where start of playback was delayed by 4 seconds, stopping of unprocessed single tracks were delayed by around 3-4 seconds and stopping of the single heavily loaded track was delayed by around 7 seconds (an additional 3-4 seconds compared to the other tracks). It sounds really weird hearing that single track playing all by itself for some seconds after the others have stopped. In total, this is an annoying behavior and even though the above settings are quite extreme and highly unlikely in a real world scenario, it kind of tells me why Reaper will let you tax it more heavily, but if you do, it still comes at a cost of responsiveness and latency if the plugins need their own buffer (f.i. for look-ahead, linear phase or over-sampling etc.).



Requests:
I kind of like Reaper, nothing really wrong with it, but nothing compares to Studio One's workflow, which I love. In the next revision of Studio One, I hope there will be some options where we can choose what kind of core distribution behavior we want for intermediate busses and the master bus. Oh, and I hope that the send mute button changes into a true send on/off button.

Final thoughts:
Back in the day, audio engineers used to test their equipment with test signals and what not. Understanding how your tools work and how to use them used to be important. Nowadays, many of us just assume that things work, and if they don’t we want someone else to fix them. No wonder, since the consumer is only provided with closed systems and no one really understands (or cares?) what is actually happening behind the scenes. This goes for pretty much any part of modern life and modern civilisation. If something happens to your modern car, good luck fixing it yourself. And there doesn't seem to be much to do about it, at least I don’t have the time for all that. Even as an audio engineer I don't have the time to be a in-depth computer tech, but a minimum of knowledge of some of my system's inner workings is still needed. These past couple of days I found some time to test my system. I’m glad I did. Now I know more about the tools I use 12 hours a day 6 days a week. Thought I'd share my findings with you guys. Hope you also got something from this.
Last edited by Skaperverket on Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
by Robert Johnson III on Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:31 am
Thanks so much for checking this out Skaperverket! Amazing detailed and informative post! I hope Presonus is listening....

MacMini M2 Pro
Memory: 16 GB
OS X latest version
Apollo X6 Thunderbolt
Studio One Pro latest version

https://open.spotify.com/album/5DQ0uQnTPGAQH4rmaNboE8?si=DH54HeplSO2hVxPFLmUVNQ
User avatar
by irvingomez on Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:32 am
Not to in any way diminish the importance of your test, but it has been a well-known truth for a long time: Studio One is not very good at CPU consumption. Reapers is much better under similar loads.
User avatar
by Skaperverket on Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:32 pm
Robert Johnson III wroteThanks so much for checking this out Skaperverket! Amazing detailed and informative post! I hope Presonus is listening....


Thanks, Robert.

irvingomez wroteNot to in any way diminish the importance of your test, but it has been a well-known truth for a long time: Studio One is not very good at CPU consumption. Reapers is much better under similar loads.


I know, irvingomez. I have read and posted in several of those other threads concerning CPU and core use. This test was specifically for my current system, and also with latest version of S1 for Mac. Even though I know a lot about S1, I still learned something new, and I thought it was interesting enough to share with those who might be interested. Especially as I documented the details for different settings, and even found a couple where S1 outperformed Reaper, instead of just writing that everything is black and white and not providing any specifics. At least the unpredictable (i.e. non-linear) performance on my system when using one specific buffer setting and the send button being a mute were things I found to be very interesting. And Reaper's weird latency bahavior. Cheers.
User avatar
by Robert Johnson III on Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:55 pm
Yes, seeing the facts displayed so clearly is quite revealing... and I really hope Presonus will start to prioritize this "issue". Studio One has the best workflow, performance improvements would make it an even better DAW.

MacMini M2 Pro
Memory: 16 GB
OS X latest version
Apollo X6 Thunderbolt
Studio One Pro latest version

https://open.spotify.com/album/5DQ0uQnTPGAQH4rmaNboE8?si=DH54HeplSO2hVxPFLmUVNQ
User avatar
by Jeffrey Kung on Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:53 pm
Thank you for doing this comprehensive test. The Studio One has the worst CPU efficiency of any modern daw.

Every time a CPU usage thread comes onto the forums, presonus decides to delete it instead of address the issue.

Let's see what they do this time. Sweep it under the rug again or offer an explanation.
User avatar
by wdkbeats on Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:15 pm
Great post @Skaperverket! It just confirms what most of us - Studio One users - already know. Too bad it's going to be deleted soon.

I went back to Reaper as well.

PC: AMD Ryzen 3900X, 32GB RAM DDR4 3600MHz CL16, ASUS ROG Strix X570-F, Gigabyte Radeon RX 570 8GB, SSD CORSAIR SSD MP510 960GB M.2 NVMe (OS)
OS: Windows 10 Pro x64
DAW: Studio One Professional x64
Gear: RME Fireface 802 + RME Advanced Remote, Prometheus Acoustics monitors, Avantone Mixcubes, JBL 305p, Softube Console 1, Presonus Faderport, AKAI Advance 61, Presonus Faderport, Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pro
User avatar
by nikolaospitloglou on Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:20 pm
@Skaperverket thanks for taking the time to do and share your tests.
I love S1 and very soon I'm going to upgrade my old 2009 mac pro to a 12core 3.33, in order to get better performance.
Hopefully, Presonus will find the way to address the cpu thing for better performance as well and everyone will stay happy. :)

Studio One 6 - AMD Ryzen 3950, 32gb ram, Windows 10, UAD 2 octo(x2) - RME HDSPe RayDat, Fireface 802
User avatar
by coolbass on Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:13 pm
Jeffrey Kung wroteThank you for doing this comprehensive test. The Studio One has the worst CPU efficiency of any modern daw.

Every time a CPU usage thread comes onto the forums, presonus decides to delete it instead of address the issue.

Let's see what they do this time. Sweep it under the rug again or offer an explanation.



Exactly!

I have bought Studio One 3, but cannot use it due to performance issues.
I can use Pro Tools, Samplitude, Cubase , Sonar or Reaper without any difficulty.
I mentioned this once on this forum and they said I must have been trolling. Pathetic and very unfair response.
Please , fix this huge problem.
User avatar
by scottmoncrieff on Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:53 pm
coolbass wrote
Jeffrey Kung wroteThank you for doing this comprehensive test. The Studio One has the worst CPU efficiency of any modern daw.

Every time a CPU usage thread comes onto the forums, presonus decides to delete it instead of address the issue.

Let's see what they do this time. Sweep it under the rug again or offer an explanation.



Exactly!

I have bought Studio One 3, but cannot use it due to performance issues.
I can use Pro Tools, Samplitude, Cubase , Sonar or Reaper without any difficulty.
I mentioned this once on this forum and they said I must have been trolling. Pathetic and very unfair response.
Please , fix this huge problem.


Your computer specs are ?
___

And as for these results, could it just be that Reaper itself is actually upscailing the buffer level (and giving a false reading to what it is actually set at in the lower ranges, it might even be automatic and hidden, you don't know...just a theory).

Here's something that gave me that theory...
https://github.com/X-Raym/REAPER-ReaScr ... %20RMS.lua

THE INTRANCER- Digital 2D & 3D GUI / Music Artist |- Full Orchestral -Trance - Ambient - Film Scores 27 on S-Cloud 7000+genuine plays | 16 on S-Click | Studio One 3 Concept Re-Designs - Sample One XT | Reason X | S-O-3 Pro | Reaktor 6.0 | Reason 7 | C4D | CS6 |Win 7 64 Bit-Intel I7 [email protected],Focusrite Pro 14, ATH M50's, Casio XW P1&G1 Producer 20+ years - FOH - UK Stadium / Festivals) >>Studio One 3D GUI's<<
User avatar
by Funkybot on Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:43 pm
Skaperverket, did you have "Anticipative FX Processing" on in Reaper?

Anticipative FX Processing does a "pre-render" of the audio going in and out of a plugin and stores it in a buffer to dramatically reduce CPU usage. Cubase/Nuendo's ASIO Guard is very similar:

https://www.steinberg.net/nc/en/support ... uendo.html

I'd be interested to know how Reaper performs with Anticipative FX Processing set to off. I'd also like for Studio One to build something similar, but that's what this FR from a few months ago was all about:

http://answers.presonus.com/12667/impro ... efficiency

AMD Ryzen 3950X, ASUS Creator x570 Mobo, 32GB HyperX Predator RAM (3600mhz), Radeon™ RX 5500 XT 4GB GDDR6 graphics card, RME Fireface 800, Windows 10 Pro, Studio One 5, Reaper 6, Cubase 10.5, Avid Artist Mix (EuCon please), Behringer X-Touch One, MIDI Fighter Twister, various other MIDI control surfaces and hardware instruments
User avatar
by Skaperverket on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:51 am
Robert Johnson III wroteYes, seeing the facts displayed so clearly is quite revealing... and I really hope Presonus will start to prioritize this "issue". Studio One has the best workflow, performance improvements would make it an even better DAW.


If my test can be of any help, I'm glad. I know it has helped me understand more. I fully agree with you that Studio One has the best workflow. There are a few things I'd like to be improved, and having additional options for CPU performance and core utilisation would be great. For me it is the best DAW out there.

Jeffrey Kung wroteThank you for doing this comprehensive test. The Studio One has the worst CPU efficiency of any modern daw.

Every time a CPU usage thread comes onto the forums, presonus decides to delete it instead of address the issue.

Let's see what they do this time. Sweep it under the rug again or offer an explanation.


You're welcome, Jeffrey. Hope you got something constructive from it. I agree that the CPU efficiency is different from other DAWs. I guess there are a lot of parameters to be taken into account. I know some DAWs are said to have problems with MIDI timing when the audio engine is maxed out, so I guess it depends on what priorities have been made. If the user could be offered some options and made aware of the potential drawbacks of the various settings, I would personally be happy with that, but I guess a closed system with less options makes it easier to understand and easier to keep bug free, so there's no definitive answer. Personally, I feel that the Professional edition of a software should be more open to tweaks and customisation.

I hope they don't delete this thread. I don't think they will, unless it all turns into a flame war or something.

wdkbeats wroteGreat post @Skaperverket! It just confirms what most of us - Studio One users - already know. Too bad it's going to be deleted soon.

I went back to Reaper as well.


Thanks, wdkbeats. Yes, I guess we knew this already, but I sure learnt a few new things as well. I don't think it will be deleted as long as it is kept constructive.

I'm sorry to hear that you felt that you had to go back to Reaper. I use it for certain very specialised tasks, but 99% of the time I use Studio One, which is the best DAW for me. Hopefully the few areas where Studio One is not the best in its class will be updated and we'll once again see you come back as a Studio One user. Happy beatmaking, wdkbeats.

nikolaospitloglou wrote@Skaperverket thanks for taking the time to do and share your tests.
I love S1 and very soon I'm going to upgrade my old 2009 mac pro to a 12core 3.33, in order to get better performance.
Hopefully, Presonus will find the way to address the cpu thing for better performance as well and everyone will stay happy. :)


You're welcome, nikolaospitloglou. I'm happy to share. I love S1 too and will upgrade my computer soon to get better performance. This test was done by me to better understand what the different settings could do for me. I was particularly interested in the results of turning hyperthreading off via the OS, to see if single-channel workloads were improved dramatically, but unfortunately that alone was not the ticket. What I learned about sends was also very helpful information for me as I now will make sure I pay attention to removing any unused send.

A 12 core 3.33 Ghz Xeon is probably a very powerful upgrade for you. Is this a dual 6 core CPU or a single 12 core? Do you know the name of the CPU you're gonna buy (f.i. X5680)? Those 12 cores will be give you a lot of power for mixing and for use with a lot of tracks, and 3.33 GHz is a quite high clock frequency, but be aware that single-core/thread performance of a CPU/system is (still) quite important for some Studio One users, so if you want to use heavy CPU hungry synths or FX chains etc., you should get as high a base clock for the CPU as possible. At least this is the way it is with S1 at the moment, hopefully this could change in the future. Also, newer computer systems will usually perform better per GHz compared to older systems, so f.i. is, as far as I can tell, the single-thread benchmarks of the 3.33 GHz (3.6 GHz Turbo) X5680 in an old Mac Pro lower than the 2.6 GHz CPU that I have in my mid 2012 MacBook Pro, even though such a Mac Pro will usually have a lot higher multi-core performance (+50-100%). It depends on how you're using it. For normal recording and mixing multi-core solutions are, as far as I can tell, a great choice for S1 users.

coolbass wrote
Jeffrey Kung wroteThank you for doing this comprehensive test. The Studio One has the worst CPU efficiency of any modern daw.

Every time a CPU usage thread comes onto the forums, presonus decides to delete it instead of address the issue.

Let's see what they do this time. Sweep it under the rug again or offer an explanation.



Exactly!

I have bought Studio One 3, but cannot use it due to performance issues.
I can use Pro Tools, Samplitude, Cubase , Sonar or Reaper without any difficulty.
I mentioned this once on this forum and they said I must have been trolling. Pathetic and very unfair response.
Please , fix this huge problem.


I'm sorry to hear that you haven't been taken seriously, coolbass. Usually people here are very helpful and super nice to one another. If you can run the other DAWs without difficulty, I'd say that there might be more to it than just the CPU efficiency of S1, don't you think? There is a difference, but on higher buffer settings it is not that big. Could there have been some settings that should have been optimised better? I don't know much about Windows these days, but have you had a look at the official statements from Presonus regarding the settings in Windows?

scottmoncrieff wroteAnd as for these results, could it just be that Reaper itself is actually upscailing the buffer level (and giving a false reading to what it is actually set at in the lower ranges, it might even be automatic and hidden, you don't know...just a theory).

Here's something that gave me that theory...
https://github.com/X-Raym/REAPER-ReaScr ... %20RMS.lua


That link didn't tell me much, Scott, but you might be onto something. I think what Funkybot mentions could have a lot to do with it.

Funkybot wroteSkaperverket, did you have "Anticipative FX Processing" on in Reaper?

Anticipative FX Processing does a "pre-render" of the audio going in and out of a plugin and stores it in a buffer to dramatically reduce CPU usage. Cubase/Nuendo's ASIO Guard is very similar:

https://www.steinberg.net/nc/en/support ... uendo.html

I'd be interested to know how Reaper performs with Anticipative FX Processing set to off. I'd also like for Studio One to build something similar, but that's what this FR from a few months ago was all about:

http://answers.presonus.com/12667/impro ... efficiency


Thanks, Funkybot. I think you are right. I remember that FR, and I voted for it back when it was posted.

Since you asked, I did some testing again today, and there differences in the results are quite drastic. It appears that Reaper definitely benefits from Anticipative FX Processing, and that the DAW is optimised for usage with this option enabled. Here are the results:

Test results S1 and Reaper extra options.jpg


What I also noticed, was that when Anticipative FX Processing was disabled, the core distribution behaved very differently. Reaper seemed unable to use all cores, especially on lower buffer settings, and core one was very quickly maxed out, even on the multi-channel test. I also noticed that Reaper was unable to load more plugins onto the master bus after the single-channel was maxed out, so also this was different than when I used Anticipative FX Processing. One final observation was that the huge delays before playback and after stopping still behaved exactly the same, even though Anticipative FX Processing was disabled. With higher buffer settings it still got really, really annoying. I guess that this behavior is possible to adjust by changing Reaper's (multitude of) options, but I didn't test this. Without Anticipative FX Processing Reaper's CPU core distribution seemed a lot more like Studio One, except that Studio One for most settings suddenly was far, far more efficient, so our friends in Hamburg do apparently have a couple of tricks up their sleeves as well.

Even though Reaper is mentioned in the original topic title, my main goal was not to compare Studio One to Reaper, though. It was to better understand Studio One and its behavior on my current computer. But when understanding something, it is always nice to have some kind of reference. Hope this makes sense.
Last edited by Skaperverket on Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
by Funkybot on Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:31 am
Skaperverket wrote
Funkybot wroteSkaperverket, did you have "Anticipative FX Processing" on in Reaper?

Anticipative FX Processing does a "pre-render" of the audio going in and out of a plugin and stores it in a buffer to dramatically reduce CPU usage. Cubase/Nuendo's ASIO Guard is very similar:

https://www.steinberg.net/nc/en/support ... uendo.html

I'd be interested to know how Reaper performs with Anticipative FX Processing set to off. I'd also like for Studio One to build something similar, but that's what this FR from a few months ago was all about:

http://answers.presonus.com/12667/impro ... efficiency


Thanks, Funkybot. I think you are right. I remember that FR, and I voted for it back when it was posted.

Since you asked, I did some testing again today, and there differences in the results are quite drastic. It appears that Reaper definitely benefits from Anticipative FX Processing, and that the DAW is optimised for usage with this option enabled. Here are the results:

Image

What I also noticed, was that when Anticipative FX Processing was disabled, the core distribution behaved very differently. Reaper seemed unable to use all cores, especially on lower buffer settings, and core one was very quickly maxed out, even on the multi-channel test. I also noticed that Reaper was unable to load more plugins onto the master bus after the single-channel was maxed out, so also this was different than when I used Anticipative FX Processing. One final observation was that the huge delays before playback and after stopping still behaved exactly the same, even though Anticipative FX Processing was disabled. With higher buffer settings it still got really, really annoying. I guess that this behavior is possible to adjust by changing Reaper's (multitude of) options, but I didn't test this. Without Anticipative FX Processing Reaper's CPU core distribution seemed a lot more like Studio One, except that Studio One for most settings suddenly was far, far more efficient, so our friends in Hamburg do apparently have a couple of tricks up their sleeves as well.

Even though Reaper is mentioned in the original topic title, my main goal was not to compare Studio One to Reaper, though. It was to better understand Studio One and its behavior on my current computer. But when understanding something, it is always nice to have some kind of reference. Hope this makes sense.


I honestly wasn't expecting the difference to be that huge. I realize you're not trying to compare the DAW's, but I think that test shows something pretty obvious: it's very likely that Studio One would greatly benefit from something like Anticipative FX Processing or ASIO Guard. At least at lower buffer sizes where the impact is greater. If I'm Ari, or someone on the S1 development team, I might look at those results and say, "what if we did something like that, only better?" Could you imagine how well Studio One would run with a comparable performance increase?

AMD Ryzen 3950X, ASUS Creator x570 Mobo, 32GB HyperX Predator RAM (3600mhz), Radeon™ RX 5500 XT 4GB GDDR6 graphics card, RME Fireface 800, Windows 10 Pro, Studio One 5, Reaper 6, Cubase 10.5, Avid Artist Mix (EuCon please), Behringer X-Touch One, MIDI Fighter Twister, various other MIDI control surfaces and hardware instruments
User avatar
by Skaperverket on Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:40 am
Funkybot wroteI honestly wasn't expecting the difference to be that huge. I realize you're not trying to compare the DAW's, but I think that test shows something pretty obvious: it's very likely that Studio One would greatly benefit from something like Anticipative FX Processing or ASIO Guard. At least at lower buffer sizes where the impact is greater. If I'm Ari, or someone on the S1 development team, I might look at those results and say, "what if we did something like that, only better?" Could you imagine how well Studio One would run with a comparable performance increase?


No, I didn't either expect Reaper to behave so differently without Anticipative FX Processing. It's quite revealing.

I do get what you're saying, Funkybot, and I agree that it probably is possible for Presonus to improve some of this quite a bit. But to expect a comparable (relative) performance increase is perhaps not realistic. The last test tells me either that Studio One and all the other DAWs have already benefited from some tricks or that Reaper has been coded specifically for use with the Anticipative FX Processing option enabled. Or both. I can't imagine any modern DAW being as bad as Reaper is without that option, so personally I would like to keep my expectations for such a feature at a realistic level. I do however welcome this option, as it clearly helps Reaper perform better and utilise all those expensive CPU cores, especially with low buffer settings, and making it best in class.

I'd like to add, even though I haven't tested this myself, that it is said (and some tests have confirmed this) that many DAWs perform much more efficiently on Windows compared to what their twin sisters do on a Mac. This saying goes for Studio One, Cubase, Nuendo and even Reaper, and I find it quite disturbing. Pro Tools apparently has a more comparable cross platform performance, but also that DAW has some differences between OS version depending on settings and what you're doing. I haven't seen cross platform performance comparison results for Ableton Live, Bitwig, Ardour, DP or the other cross platform DAWs. But this tells me that the OS itself and what OS the DAW is built for is a variable as well, and it makes this whole DAW performance comparison conversation even more confusing.

The day Studio One performs as well or better than the competition, I'm sure the user base will increase a lot. It is, in my humble opinion, the best DAW. Please vote for Funkybot's FR.

P.S.: In case the developers read this, in addition to my request for an option for changing the mute button on sends into a on/off button, I'd like to make them aware of the following issue (in case they don't know about it): there's an automation timing bug related to buffer settings and sample rates: viewtopic.php?f=213&t=22254

P.P.S: Also, in case you haven't already done so, please vote for this request by niles, regarding latency of virtual instruments: http://answers.presonus.com/12683/true- ... nstruments
User avatar
by TheNavigator on Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:10 am
Oh, how I wish for this to become reality... would be sooooooo great...

(That S1 gets something like "ASIO Guard" thing I mean...)

Studio One 3.3.4, 64 bit on Windows 10 Pro
RME Hammerfall Multiface, Mackie Big Knob
Multiple MIDI controllers of different kinds
User avatar
by garyshepherd on Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:56 am
The thing with these tests is - what is it you cannot do in Studio One 3 that you can do in Reaper? Is the alleged CPU inefficiency stopping you making music? No offence to Reaper lovers but it is not really a serious DAW - it is so widely used because it is cheap (and many don't pay anything) and while it is good it is not a pro DAW (in my opinion). But if you tell me it is more efficient than Studio One 3 then I can't argue. How does it do just playing audio tracks ? That is a real test - if I had 62 plugins loaded I would know that I need to bounce audio to ease on CPU whichever DAW I am using. But eventually once I have cut down plugins and VI's to a minimum I need to mix audio tracks (mostly). How do these 2 DAWs compare on number of audio tracks played?

Please note that I may express opinions that are different from yours but I do not intend to cause offence.
____________
iMac 27" 3.3 GHz Intel Core i5, 32 GB Ram, Monterey 12.7.4, 64 bit, Studio One 6.6 Professional Minus (always the latest) , Reason 11, Melodyne 5 Studio, Digital Performer 11.3, Korg Legacy Wavestation and M1, Arturia minimoog V, Helix Native 3.71, Bias FX 2 Elite, Superior Drummer 3, EZkeys, EZbass, Nektar Panorama T4, Motu M4, Faderport 2018, Gibson Les Paul Standard, James Tyler Variax JTV-59 and other gear.
User avatar
by Nokatus on Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:53 am
garyshepherd wrote Is the alleged CPU inefficiency stopping you making music?


Yes. One of the reasons I stopped using Studio One was its inability to cope with large low latency projects with many VI instances. It literally stopped me from making music, in situations where competing products didn't exhibit any problems on the same system and same latency.

garyshepherd wroteNo offence to Reaper lovers but it is not really a serious DAW


Yes it is. There are many things one can do in Reaper that are impossible in Studio One, and vice versa. It depends on your needs which one suits you better. For someone, Studio One offers better functionality and is a great choice. For someone else, Reaper does. Or some other DAW. Knowing first hand what the strengths of each of these environments are, and having used them professionally, it's unfortunate when ever discussion devolves into a variation of the "no true scotsman" fallacy. Comments like that aren't helping anyone.

Intel i7-3770K 3.8 GHz | Asus P8Z77-V | 32GB | RME HDSPe AIO | Win 7 Pro 64bit
Live 10 | Reaper 5 | Renoise 3
Presonus Monitor Station | Edirol PCR-500 | Peavey PC1600X
8040A | DT-880 | ATH-M50
User avatar
by garyshepherd on Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:18 am
That's fine - use Reaper then which may well suit your purposes better. I know it's not for me but I know why it is popular - but it doesn't seem to be used by many studios or pros but that is not everything. Maybe serious was the wrong word to use.

As I said I would like a test based on audio tracks as a better guide to efficiency.

Please note that I may express opinions that are different from yours but I do not intend to cause offence.
____________
iMac 27" 3.3 GHz Intel Core i5, 32 GB Ram, Monterey 12.7.4, 64 bit, Studio One 6.6 Professional Minus (always the latest) , Reason 11, Melodyne 5 Studio, Digital Performer 11.3, Korg Legacy Wavestation and M1, Arturia minimoog V, Helix Native 3.71, Bias FX 2 Elite, Superior Drummer 3, EZkeys, EZbass, Nektar Panorama T4, Motu M4, Faderport 2018, Gibson Les Paul Standard, James Tyler Variax JTV-59 and other gear.
User avatar
by Jose7822 on Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:07 pm
garyshepherd wroteAs I said I would like a test based on audio tracks as a better guide to efficiency.


But that's exactly what this Benchmark uses (multiple sine wave tracks each loaded with plugins). The test is aimed more at CPU efficiency and not so much at disk streaming efficiency (which is what adding more audio tracks would test). Have you ever used the DAWBenchmark tests? They've been the standard to test DAW performance for years!!

BTW, Scaperverket, thanks for taking the time to post your results in here. This is quite interesting and will hopefully encourage the developers to keep improving the overall performance of Studio One.
Last edited by Jose7822 on Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Xtreme | Intel Core i9 10900K (OC'ed to ~5 GHz) | 128GB of RAM | EVGA RTX 3060 Ti Gaming | Corsair iCUE H100i Water Cooler | Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 1200 Watt PSU | Windows 10 Pro 64 bit | Studio One 5 | Lynx Aurora (n) 8TB | UAD 2 Octo | UAD 2 Quad
User avatar
by Nokatus on Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:21 pm
garyshepherd wroteAs I said I would like a test based on audio tracks as a better guide to efficiency.


Reiterating the previous point, testing raw audio track performance is a "better guide to efficiency" to someone whose use case relies on efficient operation of numerous audio tracks. It's of course very important in cases like that, but as a test, not objectively better or worse or more "true", as you put it, than a test based on virtual instrument counts, for example.

In turn, in my own case, the ability to use a multitude of instrument and effect plugins is very important. As far as testing this sort of application performance goes, a test concentrating on those aspects is a much better guide to efficiency for me.

What I'm after here is, instead of trying to argue which environment is better overall, and trying to push down or scoot up this or that product, it's always beneficial to think of one's own needs. When deciding on a product, test it accordingly in the sort of scenarios you will be dealing with, and be sure to push the envelope somewhat.

Mentioning that Studio One might not be the choice for someone like me, for someone who is considering Studio One for large instrument/plugin counts in low latency situations; that should be taken as a fair warning and also encouragement to test it beforehand, for themselves, on their own system and in relation to their own working habits, and then deciding based on that.

Intel i7-3770K 3.8 GHz | Asus P8Z77-V | 32GB | RME HDSPe AIO | Win 7 Pro 64bit
Live 10 | Reaper 5 | Renoise 3
Presonus Monitor Station | Edirol PCR-500 | Peavey PC1600X
8040A | DT-880 | ATH-M50

50 postsPage 1 of 3
1, 2, 3

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: wolfgerb and 4 guests