StudioLive 2442, 1642 and 1602 with Universal Control Ai, SL Remote & QMix
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I just got my 16.4.2 back from its second trip to the repair shop for locking/freezing up. I am glad to have it back because it is an awesome board, but I feel like it can't be trusted. Is it going to freeze up again? Will it happen in the middle of a performance?
The first time it was repaired was in the fall of 2012 and I remember thinking "This model is a couple of years old now and the freezing is a known issue. Surely Presonus has the problem figured out. I'm good to go." Then "POP" it freezes up again a few weeks back. Why?? Obviously, Presonus can't figure it out or won't and its customers are left with a dead board and a $175 bill to pay. Again, I love how this board performs, but I hesitate to recommend it because of its lack of dependability.
Any issues with the AI?

Mike*D
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by gadget69 on Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:22 pm
Hi,

I have 2 each SL16.4.2 mixers and have NEVER had a freeze up...Freeze up is a nebulous term in my opinion and would like clarification as to what EXACTLY is happening... Also, What was the report back from Presonus regarding the repairs performed on your mixer (ticket # please)...

I have done literally close to a thousand shows with the SL boards any issues I had were driver or computer related...there are hundreds of thousands of SL mixers out there and if this was such a huge problem the whole world would know by now...

I suspect that perhaps there is some other issue on your end that is causing these failures...There is a TON of possibilities here so please be as specific as possible when you give descriptions of issues... SOME of the info needed...

Was the computer connected when the "freezeup" happened or was it stand alone

Did it happen BOTH ways

Was there a sinewave uninterruptable power supply connected to the board and computer...(if the voltage falls below a certain point digital electronics can lockup, and fail)

What computer and OS.. if the problem occurs when the computer is connected...

Have you optimized the computer for digital audio and is it set up to NEVER go to sleep or have the computer go to sleep or take a nap... (mac)

Are your computer and mixer BOTH running the latest software and drivers...

Have you tried different cables (firewire) if the problem is only there when the computer is connected...

Any responses will be useless unless you include the computer type, processor, OS and RAM installed as well as firmware the mixer is on and any other pertinent information that might help us narrow down the possibilities...

Should you find that Presonus didn't find anything conclusive then we will have to "assume" that the problem is with something other than the mixer hardware...

Pleas don't be offended, we qare REALLY trying to help you but there IS NO pandemic "lockup" problem with the SL 16.4.2...

Best regards

Tower:
Asus Crosshair V formula Z motherboard
AMD FX9590 4.0 GHZ 8 CORE CPU
16GB 2400MHZ RAM CAS8
512 GB SSD PRIMARY HDD
1.5 TB THOSHIBA 128MB 7200 RPM DRIVE
2.0 TB WD BLACK 256 MB 7200 RPM DRIVE
AMD R9-290 4GB VIDEO CARD
Windows 7 P sp1
2006 Imac
Lenovo thinkpad Z565 upgraded with a Quad core processor, SSD and maxed out 8GB ram
Win7 Sp1
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Ipad 3,
Ipad 4,
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1818VSL
i2
Studiolive 2442Ai
SL 16.4.2 X 2
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Engineer / producer
Owner Twilite Zone productions
Owner Studio G
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by davismv on Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:38 pm
Hey gadget,
I was asked and answered all the questions and ran all the scenarios with tech support. You can be assured that I tried everything that was suggested to optimize the board, the computer, the order of turning things on and off, etc.
I am glad that you have had a great experience with your boards ( for the most part I have, in between repairs), but not everybody has. If you search on freeze or lockup, you will see just how many. Some are certainly from user error, but not all of them. Most of the posts I've seen have the same symptoms and end up in the shop to get their DSP boards replaced. My board went 18 months and 100's of shows/practices (with and without the computer) in between issues with everything optimized and updated, yet had to have the DSP board replaced again. I still love this boards performance and I wish you continued success.
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by gadget69 on Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:13 pm
Sorry to hear that... can you get me the RA#'s? I will see what I can find out for you... I hope you understand that even if I search for the freezing problem... with over 1/2 MILLION units sold, that even THOUSANDS of failures would be well below standard 5% industry failure rate.

Lets see what we can find out...

Tower:
Asus Crosshair V formula Z motherboard
AMD FX9590 4.0 GHZ 8 CORE CPU
16GB 2400MHZ RAM CAS8
512 GB SSD PRIMARY HDD
1.5 TB THOSHIBA 128MB 7200 RPM DRIVE
2.0 TB WD BLACK 256 MB 7200 RPM DRIVE
AMD R9-290 4GB VIDEO CARD
Windows 7 P sp1
2006 Imac
Lenovo thinkpad Z565 upgraded with a Quad core processor, SSD and maxed out 8GB ram
Win7 Sp1
Mac 2006
Ipad 3,
Ipad 4,
Ipad Mini
Iphone 6s+
Audiobox USB
1818VSL
i2
Studiolive 2442Ai
SL 16.4.2 X 2
Studio 1/3pro
Sony Sound Forge 10
Engineer / producer
Owner Twilite Zone productions
Owner Studio G
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by dmsdjing on Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:08 am
I had the same problem during 2 performances and several recording attempts with my band. I called Presonus not much help except offer to send it in and pay the bench fee. I tried a few things that I had around the house and I got it to work for 26 hours with no interruption while playing a recording back in loop form Capture. What I did was use an APC battery backup unit I belive that it was a 650. Hope this helps you out. I struggled with this for about 3 months. Please let me know how it goes.
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by bitonwalstra on Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:19 am
dmsdjing wroteWhat I did was use an APC battery backup unit I belive that it was a 650. Hope this helps you out. I struggled with this for about 3 months. Please let me know how it goes.


good call :!: as basically it's just a full blown (Linux?) computer and they ARE in need of a healthy AC so a UPS will defiantly help. especially when on festivals running on generator AC where AC can be unstable.

Micro PA;
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by fredy2 on Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:36 pm
Make sure that ALL interconnected equipment is powered from the SAME receptacle or source.

Ground bounce and also static discharges can cause this. This means you run power back from where your amps are powered to the mixer... Be aware of ANY high powered radio transmitters in the area.

I had an intermittent inrush limiting thermistor in one of my 24.4.2 units in the power supply. If you find the case material from it is cracking off, replace the thermistor. Also check the soldering on the input bride rectifier leads... had one with no solder and intermittent... Repair shop should have spotted that one though.
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by brfdrums on Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Im not sure if my issue is the same as this or not, but...I am having a problem with the freezing as well. if I just turn on my mixer(16 4 2) all is fine. But, when I connect the firewire(whether or Universal control is open or not) the sound "freezes". If I open UC I can manipulate the board, I get a couple of clicks, as though UC is connecting, and then nothing...disconnect firewire, click click and I have sound. Is this a firewire issue, comp issue, firmware...?

I just update UC, 1.7.2 and my firmware is 1.50a build 190. from what I have found these are the most current...not sure if that is correct. Any help, thoughts?

Thanks in advance!

BRFDRUMS

iMAC
OSX ElCapitan
ProTools 12.5.2
StudioLive 16-4-2
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by singtall on Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:54 am
i have similar issues with firewire connection. here's what i observed: i noticed a small weird noise when i cranked up the mixer and moved my pc mouse around. i figured it was a ground problem. i tried a non grounded plug to my pc which killed the noise. now i have issues when i boot the pc, sometimes the board locks up or has no sound until i reboot the mixer.

i tried new firmware, new drivers, new firewire cable. i presume the issue is grounding. i even tried running all devices through the same ups, which made it worse.
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by PreSonuSupt2 on Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:43 am
singtall,

This sounds very much like a startup sequence problem in your and brfdrums case. Are you always ensuring the mixer is fully powered prior to booting the computer? The other way around sometimes works but most often it doesn't.

And brfdrums, NEVER connect or disconnect the firewire cable while the mixer and computer are powered. The surge of electricity will kill the chipset on one end or the other.
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by TaylorT5 on Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:46 pm
Sorry to revive a couple month old post, but I'm starting to have the same problem with my 16.4.2 freezing. It started happening a couple of days ago. The mixer would sporadically stop producing audio from the audio outs and the metering would freeze - the buttons still functioned, just no audio. Yesterday, the unit repeatedly froze in the same manner. After cycling the power, it would run for a couple of minutes. My studio monitors would emit a loud burst of white noise and the unit was no longer updating the metering or producing audio. I finally turned off my Crown amp.

I also tried resetting the unit back to factory settings and reloading the firmware - no change. Disconnecting the unit from the computer made no difference

Today, with the 16.4.2 still unplugged from the computer, I turned it on and it froze within a matter of a couple of minutes. After a cycling the power and two or three more freezes, the unit suddenly started working. It's now been running for about 20 minutes without any hiccups. As an electronics tech, I know better than to trust it - it will fail again.

FWIW, this mixer is two years old and is connected to a Furman AR-PRO power conditioner and an APC UPS.

Home Rig:
SL32.4.2.AI : Kemper Profiler : Eventide Eclipse Harmonizer : Line 6 G50 Wireless : ART Pro MPA II x 2 : ART Pro VLAII : Crown D-75A : Furman AR-Pro : JBL Control 5 Speakers : Nord Stage 2 HA-88 : Korg Kronos X 88 : Cloud CL-2 : Z270-A Rack PC w/32 Gb RAM : Mesa Lonestar v2 : Peavey VK112 v1 : Rivera Sedona ES : Numerous Mics : A-Designs MP-2A : Neve Portico II Channel : Universal Audio LA-610 : Presonus Faderport 16 :Studio One 4 Pro : Melodyne 4 Studio : Finale 2017

Church Rig:
Shure QLX-D Wireless Mic : Line 6 Relay G90 Wireless : Furman PL-Plus C : iPad Pro 12.9"
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by TaylorT5 on Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:01 pm
PreSonuSupt2 wrotesingtall,

And brfdrums, NEVER connect or disconnect the firewire cable while the mixer and computer are powered. The surge of electricity will kill the chipset on one end or the other.


That's quite interesting. The IEEE 1394 standard is written to be plug and play, as well as hot-swappable. First time I've ever heard anyone state that a Firewire cable should not be unplugged while the host and peripheral device are powered. Does the Presonus documentation support this?

Home Rig:
SL32.4.2.AI : Kemper Profiler : Eventide Eclipse Harmonizer : Line 6 G50 Wireless : ART Pro MPA II x 2 : ART Pro VLAII : Crown D-75A : Furman AR-Pro : JBL Control 5 Speakers : Nord Stage 2 HA-88 : Korg Kronos X 88 : Cloud CL-2 : Z270-A Rack PC w/32 Gb RAM : Mesa Lonestar v2 : Peavey VK112 v1 : Rivera Sedona ES : Numerous Mics : A-Designs MP-2A : Neve Portico II Channel : Universal Audio LA-610 : Presonus Faderport 16 :Studio One 4 Pro : Melodyne 4 Studio : Finale 2017

Church Rig:
Shure QLX-D Wireless Mic : Line 6 Relay G90 Wireless : Furman PL-Plus C : iPad Pro 12.9"
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by roblof on Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:51 pm
TaylorT5 wrote
PreSonuSupt2 wrotesingtall,

And brfdrums, NEVER connect or disconnect the firewire cable while the mixer and computer are powered. The surge of electricity will kill the chipset on one end or the other.


That's quite interesting. The IEEE 1394 standard is written to be plug and play, as well as hot-swappable. First time I've ever heard anyone state that a Firewire cable should not be unplugged while the host and peripheral device are powered. Does the Presonus documentation support this?

Search this site and google for it. This is 'common' knowledge.

Behringer Wing, iMac late 2015, Behringer X-Touch, X-Touch ONE, M-Air mr18, X-Air xr18, x32 with Dante/aes67, x32-rack with Dante/aes67, s16 and sd16 stageboxes, p16 monitor system, TurboSound iQ-speakers, Waves x-wsg with SoundGrid server, Motör 61, BCR-2000, StudioLive 24, FirePod 10, Apogee Ensemble, Alesis HD24, Studio One Pro v4, Notion 6, NI Komplete 11 Ultimate, Halion 6, Nuendo 10, Ableton Live 8 Suite, Reaper 4, misc Line6 gear/software, True Temperament Frets on basses and guitars, Korg Kronos, Roland vk-7, Behringer Deepmind 12, Behringer Neutron, Yamaha 02r.....
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by TaylorT5 on Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:08 pm
To be fair, it's something I've never searched for, since I knew the standard was written to be hot-swap compatible. I will definitely do a search on it now.

Knowing that fact, I'm wondering why Presonus created a device that doesn't follow the standard. And I'm not trying to pick on Presonus or kick up a fight, it's just an honest observation. Every other 1394 device I've ever used supported the standard.

Home Rig:
SL32.4.2.AI : Kemper Profiler : Eventide Eclipse Harmonizer : Line 6 G50 Wireless : ART Pro MPA II x 2 : ART Pro VLAII : Crown D-75A : Furman AR-Pro : JBL Control 5 Speakers : Nord Stage 2 HA-88 : Korg Kronos X 88 : Cloud CL-2 : Z270-A Rack PC w/32 Gb RAM : Mesa Lonestar v2 : Peavey VK112 v1 : Rivera Sedona ES : Numerous Mics : A-Designs MP-2A : Neve Portico II Channel : Universal Audio LA-610 : Presonus Faderport 16 :Studio One 4 Pro : Melodyne 4 Studio : Finale 2017

Church Rig:
Shure QLX-D Wireless Mic : Line 6 Relay G90 Wireless : Furman PL-Plus C : iPad Pro 12.9"
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by TaylorT5 on Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:02 pm
I spent some time searching this site and Google. I found one post on this site from someone stating not to hot-swap Firewire 400 connections. Away from this site, I found one other audio site, written by a blogger, who also recommended the same thing. Also some discussion on another forum about plugging in the connectors at an angle on 6-pin types, as the angle can cause the ground pin to inadvertently short.

Continuing my search, I came across several manufacturer's sites, who specifically stated that FW-400 is hot-swappable. Western Digital and Sonnet were among those stating FW-400 is hot-swappable.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/resource ... atibility/
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tango_express.html
http://www.vantecusa.com/gl/product/view_detail/392
https://www.lacie.com/download/datashee ... smo_en.pdf

I also searched my Presonus 16.4.2 manual and found nothing instructor the user to "never disconnect a FW-400 while it's live." Perhaps someone can steer me to the correct page.

So, is the concern over someone possibly plugging in their Firewire cable at an angle and shorting a couple of contacts? The manufacturers sure seem to be in consensus that FW-400 is hot-swappable. And I hardly suspect a concocted scheme on their parts to sell more FW cards.

Home Rig:
SL32.4.2.AI : Kemper Profiler : Eventide Eclipse Harmonizer : Line 6 G50 Wireless : ART Pro MPA II x 2 : ART Pro VLAII : Crown D-75A : Furman AR-Pro : JBL Control 5 Speakers : Nord Stage 2 HA-88 : Korg Kronos X 88 : Cloud CL-2 : Z270-A Rack PC w/32 Gb RAM : Mesa Lonestar v2 : Peavey VK112 v1 : Rivera Sedona ES : Numerous Mics : A-Designs MP-2A : Neve Portico II Channel : Universal Audio LA-610 : Presonus Faderport 16 :Studio One 4 Pro : Melodyne 4 Studio : Finale 2017

Church Rig:
Shure QLX-D Wireless Mic : Line 6 Relay G90 Wireless : Furman PL-Plus C : iPad Pro 12.9"
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by jessedukes on Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:54 am
Just adding my experience to the thread. We've just experienced this same issue on one of our boards. First happened when daisy chained to another 16.4.2 and a computer, but I eventually ended up disconnecting everything, but the one board, and it still happened.

For us, as a house of worship, its a total deal killer. Can't have the board drop out in the midst of a service. I just began the support ticket with PreSonus and I'll update as we work through the process.

I'm fully expecting PreSonus to be great to work with, and fix the problem without issue, but its definitely frustrating. These boards are just over two years old and you definitely don't expect to be having these types of problems this early in.
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by sjc193 on Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:16 pm
TaylorT5 wroteSo, is the concern over someone possibly plugging in their Firewire cable at an angle and shorting a couple of contacts?


Yes

FW400 is supposed to be hot swappable, but in reality, people have fried the card in the mixer and or computer by hot swapping the cable and accidentally shorting something out, Puff

So, having read that I don't hot swap my FW400 cable, are you going to hot swap yours now? Probably not. and it's really not much of an inconvenience compared to frying a 1-2 thousand dollar piece.

To see accounts of this you may have to search the archived forum, since this new forum came out, this year, the mixers all have FW800 in them so not alot of accounts of this problem anymore. From what I've read FW800 fixed the issue, whether the creators admit it or not, they saw the problem and fixed it, now we're into Thurderbolt. So, I don't know, it is what it is, don't hot swap your FW400 cable.

Steve

StudioLive RM32AI
Rackmount Windows 8.1 PC Quad core 8G ram
ASUS RT-N66U Dual Band Router
IPad2, IPad Air 2, Studio One 3 Pro, 1 DBX Driverack 260
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1 Crest Pro-Lite 7.5 (7500 watts) amp, 2 Behringer EP4000 amps
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1 beta52 kick mic, 2 e609, 2 Radial J48 DI's, 1 PRO48 DI
2 4Bar lights, 1 4Play, 1 6Spot, 1 fog machine
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by matthewgorman on Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:59 pm
I also searched my Presonus 16.4.2 manual and found nothing instructor the user to "never disconnect a FW-400 while it's live." Perhaps someone can steer me to the correct page.


Disconnect is different than connect. The problem on 400 is the pin locations, and increase in possibility of a short. That isn't too much of a problem when pulling the plug out.

All anyone is trying to do here is to pass along best practices from personal experiences. Sure the manufacturers claim FW 400 is hot swappable, but the reality is that the pin locations have shorted out some FW chips. Bottom line is you can do what you want. I prefer to err on the side of caution. I am not concerned with if/isnt covered under warranty due to a lack of clarification by a manufacturer. I am more concerned with not having my hardware when I need it because I was to impatient to power down my system to plug in my hardware.

Good luck

Matt

Lenovo ThinkServer TS140 Win 10 64bit, 8GB RAM, Intel Xeon
Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bit, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor

S1Pro V4
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by SwitchBack on Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:38 pm
AFAIK the problem with destroyed FW400 ports is due to the poorly designed IEEE1394 alpha connector in combination with floating power supplies (like many laptops have).

Floating power supplies can lead to very high (as in: over 100V) potential differences between equipment not 'connected' by anything but their power supplies via mains. Connecting a data cable between these devices could easily zap the sensitive data ports.

So in order to be hot swappable the FW400 alpha connector (see picture) is designed to be 'ground before signal': The contact for pin 2 (the ground pin) in the port connector extends a little further than the other 5 contacts so ground should connect before the signal pins do. That should zero out potential differences between devices before the data lines connect.
Image
Great idea but for the loose fit of the connector. It is easy to plug in under an angle, defeating the 'ground before signal' feature. Not hard to guess what that can do...
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by bumbum on Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:36 pm
All firmware up to date. Less than 2 yrs old, around 80 gigs. I'm having the same problem with freezing. With or w/o computer connected. Haven't started the ticket yet. I'm experiencing more freezes in the last 14 days.

Because I don't like to sweat if the board will stay alive or not during plays I borrowed one from a friend and load the preset from mine. His board is running without any problems. So it has to be sth wrong with my SL 16.4.2.

besides all problems I still love Presonus and won't change it.

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