Correct, there is no way to get analog equipment involved in a digital workflow. While recording you can use inserts, but recorded = digital tracks ask for digital processing - that's what the DAWs with their mighty processing are for! And let your DAW do the processing when playing back the tracks. Use the best of both worlds, but think consequent: The workflow goes from analog to digital and then from digital to digital (with an analog conversion to make the result be heard).

What you want to do is possible, if your hardware and software will support it. Do some web searches for "How to integrate hardware effects with your DAW".

You will need to dedicate input and output channels on your interface to the patch bay (out and in).
And your DAW needs to be able to assign Tracks/Busses to those outputs.

One of the biggest issues to overcome will be latency. Software like Pro Tools has built in tools to handle this.

Good Luck
Wally

A tip to save you some channels: When the firewire button on a mixer channel is lit then the analog input of that channel still goes to the computer. So you can send a track from your computer to channel 1, on the mixer route channel 1 to Aux 1, use Aux 1 as input for a processor, and plug the output from the processor into channel 1 which goes back to the computer

But I would still like to use the patch bay to process output signal with the compressors and EQ's for example as I have several outboard units I am using.

Can I come out of the subgroup outputs put these to the patch bay then either come back in via 4 channels say 13-16 or even back into the Auxilary inputs?

For an answer to that please first explain what your patchbay looks like and how you hooked it up to the mixer. There's more than one way to skip a chord...

At he moment I have the patch bay connected to inserts 1-16 and this works fine for recording in using the outboard gear, but how can I route say 1 or 2 stereo channels from the computer to mixer and out to patch bay and effects and come back in to the mixer to listen to the result on my DAW and record this to of course?

Quite easy.

Every mixer channel has a firewire send (sending the channel's mic/line/insert input to the computer) and a firewire return (channel from the computer to the channel's firewire button). The firewire send/return pair is in every respect a digital insert for that mixer channel. And with the Dig Out button you can even move this insert per channel from pre-FAT to post-FAT.

So with the patchbay on the analog inserts you can do this:
- plug a pair of outputs (e.g. subgroups 1&2) into a pair of channel line inputs (e.g. channels 1&2)
- engage the firewire buttons on channels 1&2
- on the mixer route channels 1&2 to linked subgroups 1&2
- use Dig Out on channels 1&2 as you see fit

You're now set up to return two channels (firewire) from your computer to channels 1&2 on the mixer, going to subgroup outputs 1&2, into the channel 1&2 line inputs, to the channel 1&2 inserts (so to your patchbay) and from there per firewire send back to the computer. So you can use your patchbay as you're used to. Just remember never to release the firewire buttons on channels 1&2 or it will create a feedback loop in the mixer.

Thank you so much almost there, but there's one more hurdle.

I am now recording back into the computer but I am getting phasing back in latency is at its lowest on my DAW.

If i solo to listen to the incoming it breaks the chain, how do I route it so that I dont get this phasing and also it gets feedback loop when turned up higher.

I have set it up like this Ableton to firewire 1-2 on Presonus, 1-2 sent to group 1-2, cables out from group 1-2 to inputs 15-16. patchbay channel 15-16 to my stereo compressor then arm my Ableton input 15-16 but I get the phasing issue.

Do I need to route it to a buss / send maybe?

Thanks in advanced! Come along way since first being told it is not possible

Some round-trip latency is inevitable. You're going buffer - firewire interface - D/A converter - A/D converter - firewire interface - buffer so a couple of milliseconds is the least you should expect. The only way to compensate (after minimizing buffer size and maximizing bitrate) is to delay all audio that stays inside your DAW. Maybe someone can chime in to explain how to do that in Ableton.

Another thing is to know exactly where all your signals are going both in the mixer and in your DAW. Where does your DAW's main mix go? And how is it routed through the mixer? And did you take Subs 1&2 out of the mixer's main mix? Easy to mix signals where you didn't intend to do that.

Yes the monitor sub 1-2 are coming out of the mixers main channel

I have the firewire from ableton on channel main output 1-2 sent to subgroup 1-2 only not the main, Subgroup I am using 1-2 back into channel 15-16. Actually I think its a routing issue as both sources are playing so this would be the phasing issue, How can I route so that the original source is just sent not audiable but the processed is back in, any ideas?

My guess is that on the mixer subs 1&2 are still assigned to main (the default setting). For what you want to achieve you have to take them out of the main mix.

Another thing to check: from your description of how things are routed it seems as if you want to use the compressor on your DAW's main mix by routing the main mix to mixer channels 1&2, getting the compressed signal back into your DAW from sends 15&16. Is that just for recording (onto a track which is not routed to your DAW's main mix)? Because otherwise you are looping the compressed signal back to the compressor. Not what you want...

You was right! its all working! Amazing thank you so much! Where you based I owe you a beer

Oh wait, theres another problem, It seems that some of the insert channels when connected a over riding the input mic channels, is this a malfunction on the mixer?

No, it is by design.

A channel's analog insert comes after the line input comes after the mic input. When you plug something into the line input then the mic input is disabled. The mic/line signal is available on the tip contact of the insert. The ring contact of the insert goes to the channel's A/D converter. When nothing is plugged into the insert (or only half) then tip is internally connected to ring. When you plug a jack all the way into the insert then the internal contact between tip and ring is broken. It is exactly this layout that allows you to set up a patchbay like yours.

A channel's digital insert comes after the A/D converter, either before (Dig Out off) or after the channel's FAT processing (Dig Out on). The 'tip contact' (= send) of the digital insert always goes to the computer. The 'ring contact' (= return) either gets the signal from the computer (firewire button on) or the signal from the 'tip contact' (firewire button off).

Perhaps it helps to make yourself a drawing of the signal path with both inserts and how your computer and compressor are connected.