Perhaps I should just buy the Allen and Heath QU16?

Perhaps you're asking the wrong questions...

Well, not really.
I'm in the market for a new mixer and I don't want to waste a load of cash like I did last time.
I did actually like the 1642 otherwise I wouldn't be posting here, mine just happened to be crap!

I think it is ok to ask the question, but who can answer it? It is typical for a forum that you can read a lot of complaints. The world seems to be full of problems and desasters... Take any brand or product you want, you will see the same picture and it is true: any technical equipment can fail, especially if there is DSP processing inside. The is NO product without problem - in any price tag!

My experience with the SL AI board I had was very positive. Compared to the classic boards the sound is better, constructional things are better (e.g. the faders), there are more features and "Active Integration", there are option cards and there is UC Surface 2, which is an incredible step forward compared to the older UC versions. The SL AI products are now technically mature and there is not so much to read about problems, not here and not in the Answers section. I have used my SL 2442AI with a RM32AI as stagebox (AVB network) and I never had any problem.

The SL 1642AI has less features on its surface, so for fully using the parametric EQs or Mute Groups, UC Surface on a computer or mobile device is needed. UC Surface is a perfect addition to the mixer, especially with the exclusive Smaart features on board. But you need to consider that the SL AI boards were designed with FireWire as "heart" of any connectivity. If you can work with FireWire/Thunderbolt, the SL AI boards are still worth a look. If FireWire is a problem, you should have a look at the Series III products and their USB and AVB connectivity.

Hope this helps.

I had a classic 24.4.2 it never failed.
I currently have a 32ai, it has also never failed.

So, they've not improved at all ...

I had a classic 16.4.2 and it went back to Presonus for repair 3 times in 3 years (2 times for the freeze issue), after the 3rd time I sold it to a bar, they still have it and it still works other than channel 14 which apparently a DJ over drove it with a very high line level input into the mic preamp.

I bought the RM32AI 3 or 4 years ago and I have not a problem with it, it's awesome actually!

There was definitely a problem with the classic 16.4.2, some believe that heat would cause components to malfunction easier than they should. I've read every forum post since the AI mixers came out and while I have seen a couple people need repair, not very many, not even close to the number of classic owners that needed repair (like me 3 times!)

Steve

Thanks for your input guys.
I'm seriously thinking about a 24 4 2 ai.
I've been using a Rm16ai for some time without issue
Can a 2442 at use the rm16 as a stage box even though it has more channels?
Cheers!

Yes, of course. You can use any RM as stagebox for any SL AI mixer. But may I ask what your goal is? You will need an AVB option card with the mixer (additional costs) and you will be restricted to 8 aux mixes instead of 10, because the RM16AI does not have more physical aux outputs. I have used the combination SL2442AI and RM32AI, which gave me 6 more aux mixes (16 in total).

Both RM mixers can be used as stageboxes/monitor mixers for SL AI boards, but the addition of a CS18AI controller makes more sense. You get (moving) faders for mains, aux and FX mixes, direct access to the Fat Channel, GEQs and any function of your RM mixer. It works like a physical UC Surface and feels like a traditional mixer. The most effective set-up is a RM16AI, a router and a CS18AI connected via WiFi dongle. Add a tablet and you can mix monitors on stage. If there is no space for your CS18AI, leave it away and mix on a tablet. If you need more channels, add a second RM mixer and cascade them via AVB.

It all depends on what you want to do. Great to hear that your RM16AI has done a good job for you!

I like the way you're thinking!
Would it be possible to use an AI desk to run the RM wirelessly much the same way the CS18 does?, at least then you have a fully functioning desk for other jobs rather than having a CS that can only be used in conjunction with another ai desk, if you know what I mean?

No, there is no chance to connect SL and RM mixers wirelessly. Connection is made via a single CAT5e or CAT6 cable and AVB option cards installed on both ends (the RM mixer comes with an AVB option card). This allows you to use the RM as "simple" stagebox, which bypasses all preocessing of the rack mixer. Now one single network cable replaces the old heavy snake, but if you want to add remote control (tablet, mobiles), you need to get an AVB switch and a router. In all configurations this system works great and has several options, but how does the future look like for SL AI mixers? Will they get along with the limits/usability of AVB first generation and Firewire? If you can live with these limits, go for a SL/RM combination. If you need more flexibility, a CS/RM combination is a good alternative.

I can understand your wish to have a "real" mixer. It took me more than one year to say good-bye to this old tradition and value. It has always been a good feeling to know "where" the sound processing takes place. But if you think of digital mixers as computers without any kind of redundancy concept, they loose their trustworthiness. When I got familiar with the thought that mixing is completely happening in the digital world and therefore can happen "anywhere", I discovered the CS18AI as the perfect "add-on" for my two RM mixers. It really is THE controller for the RM mixers and a physical substitution for UC Surface on a tablet. It does exactly the same as UC Surface - wirelessly or wired.

SL and RM mixers are both "fully functioning". Actually, the RM offers more processing features like DCA groups, flex mixes (using aux mixes as subgroups) and an input source matrice. So, why not get a second RM mixer for "other jobs"? I would not hesitate buying one second hand. The prices have gone down already.

A CS18AI is the perfect controller for the RM mixers and I really enjoy mixing with faders and knobs/encoders again. Using an iPad is ok for smaller events, but in a concert I feel more comfortable with a physical surface. The CS18AI brings "the best of both worlds" together, like the Fat Channel from the consoles and Mute Buttons from UC Surface. Another very nice feature is the display of all input gains (1-64) and the use of 16 encoders on all layers as gain knobs. This is unique for the CS18AI, the RM mixers do not have this feature. I also like sends and returns on faders. I always said I don't need this, but now I know that it makes mixing easier...

You can also link an SL console to RM as stagebox or RM as monitor mixer using Dante cards, in which case you'll not need to buy an AVB switch (but you will have to buy Dante cards...)

Well gentlemen, thanks very much for your in depth replies.
I'm going to have to think this one through...so many options!
Still trying to get my head around Avb and Dante cards. As I'm aware, I think they are devices for sending actual sound rather than digital code over wifi?
Is that correct?
Thanks again, I'm very grateful!

Absolutely correct. AVB and Dante are both methods of transporting audio over ethernet and nothing at all to do with control.

Coincidentally though, control signals can also be sent over ethernet... thus the confusion among some users that use the terms AVB control.... or Dante control...

CS18 is a great example. Connect it directly to an RM with CAT5e (or via an AVB switch) and it will use AVB to send audio from its ports and "normal" ethernet for control. But use a standard, non-AVB switch and you get control only.

If you want to watch a REALLY GOOD "walk-through" of the CS18AI, follow Rick Naqvi introducing the CS18AI in this video:

"PreSonus StudioLive CS18AI Walk-Through"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfIFRyAcxRg

There are several videos about how to connect SL and RM mixers. Here are three of them:

"StudioLive AI & RM AVB Stage Box Setup Overview"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u30aNkueM1Y

"PreSonus StudioLive AI and RM Mixers AVB Stage Box Setup: Direct Connection"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZLN-fTbVm8

"PreSonus—Using the StudioLive RM Mixers in Stage Box Mode"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppHAXWI2A2s