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One more small data point. I just now did some basic controller extension mapping for Bitwig Studio (knobs, transport MMC, pads/keys) and tested the SQ in Bitwig. Double/multi-triggering can happen in Bitwig too on lower-velocity hits.

Studio One 5.1 Pro (Sphere) | Bitwig 3.2.x | Ableton 10.x
Faderport 8 | ATOM SQ | MOTU M4 | Push 2 (Shove)
Windows 10 Home | i9 9900K | 64 GB RAM | Geforce RTX 2070
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by PreAl on Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:34 am
shannongreywalker wroteAlso, I saw PreAl confirming above that they are seeing on the SQ exactly the same multi-triggering behavior as I've been reporting. (They just got their SQ today.)


PreAl wroteYup confirming behaviour on SQ (literally straight out of the box) AND classic pad Atom on V4.
Issue does not happen if you use a Maschine Studio controller.

I've just force flashed my SQ but haven't run any tests yet.


.... and now confirming same behaviour with reflashed firmware SQ and Studio One V5 Artist.
I will just assume the original atom will have the same issues that I reproduced in V4.

Studio One Pro 5, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom Pad, Atom SQ, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental).

Intel i9 9900K, 32GB RAM,
EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
Dell Inspiron 7591 (2 in 1) 16Gb.
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by edmisik on Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:04 am
PreAl wrote
shannongreywalker wroteAlso, I saw PreAl confirming above that they are seeing on the SQ exactly the same multi-triggering behavior as I've been reporting. (They just got their SQ today.)


PreAl wroteYup confirming behaviour on SQ (literally straight out of the box) AND classic pad Atom on V4.
Issue does not happen if you use a Maschine Studio controller.

I've just force flashed my SQ but haven't run any tests yet.


.... and now confirming same behaviour with reflashed firmware SQ and Studio One V5 Artist.
I will just assume the original atom will have the same issues that I reproduced in V4.


All this stuff is just flat out weird. I am having multiple crazy issues in S1 5 Artist (none in vs 4.6), but NOT multiple hits or anything weird happening with the original Atom Pad in Artist 5. I feel like we are beta testers for v5 (it's a waste of time). Between S1 5 Artist multiple issues and the usb96 issues i had, the original Atom has been the one reliable thing from Presonus and it works well with poly after touch....as does Mixcraft.

I;m guessing that some of these issues involve S1 5 not behaving well with some popular plugins.
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by PreAl on Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:27 am
Note on the orginal Atom I'm running the latest firmware.

I think we need as many people to confirm this issue as possible.
From communication elsewhere what I see right now that this may be regarded as a niche issue that only effects a handful of users by Presonus, I beg to differ.

People who want to repro this should follow the last video from the OP exactly, I went as far as using the exact same Impact preset and playing the exact same sample. It was enlightening for me - I think I always had this issue but perhaps blamed my poor drumming or something else.

Note this is now a confirmed bug that needs to be fixed in a firmware update for BOTH atom controllers. Perhaps they could get the velocity to work like Maschine Studio, that works fine. I suspect Maschine Studio may have higher quality Pads though... who knows.

Not holding my breath too much...

This is still a sticky in the forums, no mention of it being fixed of not.
viewtopic.php?f=395&t=35014

Dimming the orignal Atom pads was never tackled.

Studio One Pro 5, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom Pad, Atom SQ, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental).

Intel i9 9900K, 32GB RAM,
EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
Dell Inspiron 7591 (2 in 1) 16Gb.
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by Baphometrix on Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:59 am
Maybe it's a Windows driver vs Apple driver issue? @edmisik doesn't have their system stats listed in their forum signature.

As for the YouTube videos out there about the ATOM SQ so far, I haven't found any that I would consider REAL reviews from everyday producers. So far I find only the usual cohort of "Monetizer" channels giving glowing reviews. Just like they do for every NFR they receive from plugin vendors. There's an entire industry of tutorial makers and "gear reviewers" who are sponsored by multiple companies or otherwise get NFRs from here and there, and they just gleefully read the sales pitch that accompanied the NFR package. OR, they do buy something like the ATOM SQ on their own nickel but their goal is to be the "first" to get a "review video" out there so that they can grab as many eyeballs as possible. Gotta get those play counts up, amirite? :+1

I'm not dissing those YouTube channels--music is a hard business to monetize so I recognize the need to scrabble for every penny. They're just playing the game the way it's rigged to be played.

But when I see glowing reviews in the first week or two of launching some new thing, and they're rattling off the benefits and walking you through obvious settings and workflow, then (speaking only for myself) I mutter something impolite and move on to the next video. And I tend to never subscribe to channels that frequently do this type of thing.
Last edited by Baphometrix on Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

Studio One 5.1 Pro (Sphere) | Bitwig 3.2.x | Ableton 10.x
Faderport 8 | ATOM SQ | MOTU M4 | Push 2 (Shove)
Windows 10 Home | i9 9900K | 64 GB RAM | Geforce RTX 2070
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by Bbd on Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:00 am
If anyone has an issue that needs addressing, please create a Support ticket for it. That will create the most visibility for it to Presonus.
The more case scenarios they get, the better to help resolve it.
Thanks!

Bbd

Please add your specs to your SIGNATURE.
Search the STUDIO ONE 5 ONLINE MANUAL. Access your MY.PRESONUS account.
OVERVIEW of how to get your issue fixed or the steps to create a SUPPORT TICKET.
Needs to include: 1) One Sentence Description 2) Expected Results 3) Actual Results 4) Steps to Reproduce.


OS: Win 10 x64 Home, Studio One Pro 5.x, Notion 6, Series III 24, Studio 192, Haswell CPU: i7 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM: 16GB, Faderport 8/16, Central Station +, PreSonus Sceptre S6, Eris 3.5, Temblor 10, ATOM, ATOM SQ
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by PreAl on Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:43 am
shannongreywalker wroteMaybe it's a Windows driver vs Apple driver issue?


Just tested with a SQ and Studio One V 4.62 - under Mac Catalina. Issue is reproducible.

Studio One Pro 5, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom Pad, Atom SQ, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental).

Intel i9 9900K, 32GB RAM,
EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
Dell Inspiron 7591 (2 in 1) 16Gb.
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by edmisik on Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:18 pm
shannongreywalker wroteMaybe it's a Windows driver vs Apple driver issue? @edmisik doesn't have their system stats listed in their forum signature.

.


I can report that I;ve lost the pads colour coding I created in Impact XT when upgrading? to Artist 5. Feel bad for those who spent a lot of time colour coding pads who are experiencing same


<paste>

-S1 v5 Artist checking out Mixcraft 9
-Atom and Native a49 keyboard, USB96, jbl 301's
-G&L s500 Guitar and some cheap Ibanez Acoustic Electric, Sol Cajon, some version of Audio-Technica cans, some brand of mic, Orba <if it ever comes>
-Fav VST's = Native Electric Sunburst Deluxe, Roli Studio Player, Scaler2. The Gentleman.
-IBM Thinkpad 440t or something like that ..seems to work fine :) enough resources. Win 10 Pro

:)
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by Jemusic on Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:10 pm
To PreAI did you try the higher velocity settings on your ATOM. I am getting very rare doubles when I am using this setting.

Please add your specs to your SIGNATURE.
Search the STUDIO ONE 4 ONLINE MANUAL. Access your MY.PRESONUS account.
OVERVIEW of how to get your issue fixed or the steps to create a SUPPORT TICKET.
Needs to include: 1) One Sentence Description 2) Expected Results 3) Actual Results 4) Steps to Reproduce.



Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad- iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.1 (Mac), Notion 6.7, Ableton Live 10 Suite, LaunchPad Pro
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by PreAl on Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:25 pm
Just default settings everywhere right now.
My workaround is to use my Maschine Studio at the moment.

Studio One Pro 5, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom Pad, Atom SQ, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental).

Intel i9 9900K, 32GB RAM,
EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
Dell Inspiron 7591 (2 in 1) 16Gb.
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by edmisik on Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:12 pm
Just guessing but I think various popular plugins are causing various issues with Studio One 5. The guy at Studio One Recording Made Easy (or something like that) is having big issues w. some of his plugins he uses all the time to the point where he cant switch to v5. He sure knows what he is doing and has a fully loaded pc. I;m getting strange things like a metronome that plays much fdifferent than the tempo i;ve set..i;m sure that isnt happening for most people (just one example). could be because of the plugin that i think is causing this.

As I said, one problem I;m not having is double hits on my regular Atom and I have it set to most sensitive mode.it doesnt do that at all for me. I am having a number of other issues with Studio One...way too many..to the point where I will either switch back to v 4.6 and revisit v 5 in a few months hoping they have fixed stuff or just switch to Mixcraft which works just fine (as in zero issues).

I really dont want to spend more time trying to find workarounds and special sequences to make things work...i want to use the time to make music, so I will use stuff that doesnt give me problems. peace out. you guys are diligent.
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by PreAl on Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:46 pm
To be clear, and I don't think you are saying this.. but others might misinterpret if they didn't watch the videos .. this isn't a plugin issue at all. It's the MIDI coming out of the atom controllers.

Studio One Pro 5, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom Pad, Atom SQ, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental).

Intel i9 9900K, 32GB RAM,
EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
Dell Inspiron 7591 (2 in 1) 16Gb.
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by edmisik on Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:51 pm
PreAl wroteTo be clear, and I don't think you are saying this.. but others might misinterpret if they didn't watch the videos .. this isn't a plugin issue at all. It's the MIDI coming out of the atom controllers.


i was making a general statement. apologies for the diversion. i;m out..past weary of the troubleshooting. hope this stuff gets fixed...i;m going to a rig that works right. i can see how there would be these sort of issues when a DAW gets a big upgrade...there is a lot going on, and a lot that can go wonky
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by PreAl on Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:11 pm
Same here. I've just wasted a couple of days diagnosing plugin and daw issues (not just from Presonus). Problem is once I find an issue I try to do the full QA on it, I cannot leave it alone. I should learn to walk away. Anyway hopefully clean start tomorrow.

Studio One Pro 5, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom Pad, Atom SQ, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental).

Intel i9 9900K, 32GB RAM,
EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
Dell Inspiron 7591 (2 in 1) 16Gb.
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by edmisik on Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:53 pm
PreAl wroteSame here. I've just wasted a couple of days diagnosing plugin and daw issues (not just from Presonus). Problem is once I find an issue I try to do the full QA on it, I cannot leave it alone. I should learn to walk away. Anyway hopefully clean start tomorrow.


gotcha, think we view this stuff as a challenge to solve, when some things like this really arent solvable when some people have problems with something and some do not and if the problem is sporadic. Again speaking in generalities. In my case, my S1 5 has a number of things that arent working right with my rig so I need to bail on it at least for now because everything else is working just fine. i think they need to fix stuff. .i'm walking away...a frosty beverage is in order. g luck w. this project..this stuff is maddening.

as to the SQ, now that a number of youtubes are up no one is complaining about this issue that i saw amongst the reviewers...and some of them are playing drums in ways that would trigger double hits....could it be a case of these guys using pre production ones which are fine but there is an issue with the first production run>? just thinking aloud.
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by PreAl on Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:51 pm
Well my original Atom has the issue, and I didn't notice it.
I really do not want to look at my older projects now. This is like driving a car for years and not noticing that the back seats have collapsed. Didn't bother me that much at the time, but now I know about it..

Studio One Pro 5, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom Pad, Atom SQ, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental).

Intel i9 9900K, 32GB RAM,
EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
Dell Inspiron 7591 (2 in 1) 16Gb.
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by Baphometrix on Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:15 pm
I'll just say that compared to the responsiveness/accuracy/sensitivity of a Push 2 or a Maschine MK3, one begins to take for granted that pad controllers are a no-brainer to do right. So I didn't think twice about pre-ordering the ATOM SQ because the layout and form-factor and features are quite nice. IOTW, I assumed that since the pads on a Push 2 and Maschine work so well, and that the original ATOM had been out there for a while and I'd never come across anything pointing out issues with the pad response on it, then the ATOM SQ should be a safe bet.

But the issues with the pad responsiveness and multi-triggering instantly jumped out at me. No where near the smooth response and configurable sensitivity of a Push 2 or Maschine MK3. The pads themselves feel harder and there's less overall sense of travel. And as my videos show, I can get initial velocity hits of as high as 60 and even 90 and still get a multi-trigger event. I suspect that the slightly softer, more cushy pads on a Push 2 or Maschine provide a kind of "dampening" on the hits that tends to even out the velocity and pressure that reaches the sensors underneath. By contrast, the harder pads on the SQ transmit a wider distribution of velocity values even if your kinesthetic sense feels like you're hitting the pads very evenly and consistently.

I can live with the harder pads as long as the firmware gives me control to dial in a velocity response curve that allows me to play soft around 30-40 velocity and not strain too much to also jump up to full 127 velocity. And there *are* already settings that enable that, but the lower velocity hits around 30-40 or less will very often multi-trigger. And even mid velocities like 60-70 will multi-trigger often enough to be a nuisance.

Again, the YouTube videos out there are from monetized channels. They want to be first to grab eyeballs with a glowing review. I *could* have been one person doing a more balanced review that pointed out this problem straight up. But I know it's a new thing and bugs are inevitable, so I'm holding off and giving Presonus a little time.

Studio One 5.1 Pro (Sphere) | Bitwig 3.2.x | Ableton 10.x
Faderport 8 | ATOM SQ | MOTU M4 | Push 2 (Shove)
Windows 10 Home | i9 9900K | 64 GB RAM | Geforce RTX 2070
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by PreAl on Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:37 am
My Maschine Studio pads are def much nicer.
I guess with the SQ my primary purpose was step sequencer and deep integration. Not surprisingly perhaps not one single pad controller rules them all it seems.

I'm going to have a look at a Maschine template and see how far I can get..
https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... ed.268021/

Studio One Pro 5, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom Pad, Atom SQ, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental).

Intel i9 9900K, 32GB RAM,
EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
Dell Inspiron 7591 (2 in 1) 16Gb.
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by 60s Pop Man on Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:03 am
This has been an interesting read, and thanks to all who have provided objective findings.

When playing MIDI guitar, false triggers - double short and/or low velocity notes is a reality that has to be accepted and managed with the best possible playing technique and post-MIDI recording use of actions to locate and delete those notes.

I have limited experience with keyboards, but I don't expect to see double notes as described here.
Hopefully, a firmware update will resolve the identified issue. Until then, I'll keep watching this space.

I love the FP8-S1 integration. Everthing just works.
Last edited by 60s Pop Man on Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

2017 MBP/2012 Mini, macOS 10.15.7, S1 5.1, Notion 6.8.0, Eris 5, FaderPort8, Quantum 2626, I-7, MIDI guitar controllers, Novation SL MKll for CC - no Automap!
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by robertgray3 on Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:34 am
shannongreywalker wrotethe YouTube videos out there are from monetized channels. They want to be first to grab eyeballs with a glowing review. I *could* have been one person doing a more balanced review that pointed out this problem straight up. But I know it's a new thing and bugs are inevitable, so I'm holding off and giving Presonus a little time.


I don’t think it’s as simple as “channels want to give glowing reviews.” Just want to throw something out there-

1- This could be a problem that got worse with successive production runs. I’ve had the original Atom for a year now. I did some quick back-of-the-napkin math and when I’m hitting the pads lightly (velocity around 10-75) all but one pad triggered correctly somewhere around 24 out of 25 times. As I mentioned before, pad 11 double triggers a lot when I hit it softly so I didn’t include it in that average.

2- Differences in playing styles are absolutely a thing. After doing the math in #1, I wondered, “Wouldn’t I notice this thing double triggering 4% of the time?” So I opened up three productions I’m working on and looked at the velocity data for the drums. When I’m using my Atom I guess I don’t hit it that much below 60, and it’s mostly above 80. I do a few ghost notes but as a percentage probably not enough to notice. Let's just say 20% of my hits are under 60 and 4% of those double trigger. If you've worked with a label you'll know that's only 0.8% of all the hits :mrgreen: Also I prefer using my keyboard for flams, rolls, and precise snare/HH grooves which must keep me from seeing as much double triggering. When I see colleagues do rolls and flams, they’re often using Note Repeat-type functions or drawing them (that’s for another thread lol).

3- Terrible reviews grab attention too... I just purchased an ML-2 to test out and the top video on YouTube for it is “Slate ML2 fail- 3 returns!” with a big facepalm in the thumbnail. What I took from the video was that Slate had a manufacturing problem the first month of production and Slate service must rock because of how quickly they did three warranty returns. But this video probably gives a lot of people pause on purchasing them, even though they work fine now in 2020. Hats off to you for holding off judgement.

TLDR: Maybe most people hit the pads harder and with less expression which could mask QC issues. Also props for not shooting a video review with a barf emoji in the thumbnail as is the trend currently :D
Last edited by robertgray3 on Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

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