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Thank you for the video and update.

Bbd

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by Baphometrix on Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:44 am
No. Scratch what I said above about the downstream velocity modifiers CAUSING the problem. In fact, all they're doing is MAKING THE PROBLEM MORE AUDIBLE. The problem is indeed with the basic velocity sensitivity curves. Or the hardware pad triggers themselves (a hardware design flaw). Or maybe it's some bad interaction of the Pressure or Aftertouch sensors causing low-velocity double- and multi-triggers.

Either way, this third (and final) video clearly, absolutely demonstrates the problem.

https://youtu.be/tMxrzWkKWf8

Studio One 5.1 Pro (Sphere) | Bitwig 3.2.x | Ableton 10.x
Faderport 8 | ATOM SQ | MOTU M4 | Push 2 (Shove)
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by PreAl on Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:53 am
Sorry to keep asking questions ...

I wonder if this can be repo'd in V4.
Or in another DAW like Live that uses another "mode"?

Thx.

Studio One Pro 5, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom Pad, Atom SQ, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental).

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by Baphometrix on Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:12 pm
I dunno. At this point I'm done doing QA work for Presonus on this issue. They'll either have news that they can fix it, or I'll be returning it (and the replacement unit they already sent).

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by PreAl on Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:41 pm
OK I might try it myself then when it eventually arrives.

If I get this issue what I would want to know is if it works with OK with other DAWs or V4, if so I would assume it is V5 issue.

Admittedly it does not look likely but you don't know until you know...

Studio One Pro 5, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom Pad, Atom SQ, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental).

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by Jemusic on Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:44 pm
ATOM SQ natively is a Studio One version 5 thing only and beyond.

It may work however in HUI or MCU modes in V4 but with less integration. Although the native SQ driver does not even show up in V4.

It works natively with Ableton but only the latest version because Ableton has written code to see and work with it. Of course it can also be set to HUI and MCU modes but the amount of integration you will get with other DAW's will vary.

We are sorting out some issues with some pads only producing one single rather low velocity, especially after you have reset the defaults. This can be fixed by running the firmware update again and NOT resetting default settings.

This is going to be fixed in a future firmware update.

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Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad- iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.1 (Mac), Notion 6.7, Ableton Live 10 Suite, LaunchPad Pro
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by PreAl on Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:40 pm
Jemusic wroteATOM SQ natively is a Studio One version 5 thing only and beyond.

It may work however in HUI or MCU modes in V4 but with less integration. Although the native SQ driver does not even show up in V4.

It works natively with Ableton but only the latest version because Ableton has written code to see and work with it. Of course it can also be set to HUI and MCU modes but the amount of integration you will get with other DAW's will vary.

We are sorting out some issues with some pads only producing one single rather low velocity, especially after you have reset the defaults. This can be fixed by running the firmware update again and NOT resetting default settings.

This is going to be fixed in a future firmware update.


Yes I know V4 works in different modes, that's the entire point, testing it in a different mode to make a comparison.

"We are sorting out some issues with some pads only producing one single rather low velocity"

I don't understand this statement at all sorry.

I have also read what you've fully written twice and I am unable to work out the significance of what you are saying when I compare this to the OPs last video.

"This is going to be fixed in a future firmware update."

You keep coming up with statements as though you actually work for Presonus, please be careful you can really mislead people. Has Presonus told you that the OP issue is going to be fixed in a firmware update or not?

It's worth noting when V5 came out and there was an issue in V5 and classic faderport you proclaimed there won't be a fix, and yet Presonus fixed it on the very first patch.

You were a beta tester on SQ were you not?
Did you see this issue?
Are you confirming the behaviour?

Studio One Pro 5, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom Pad, Atom SQ, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental).

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by Jemusic on Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:47 pm
I am referring to a separate issue that happens after you reset the default settings. Some of the lower pads can sometimes only output a single velocity only. Quite a low velocity. Playing them at any velocity will only output a fixed low velocity. That is fixable by running the firmware update again and will be fixed properly in a future update.

As for the OP faults with double triggering etc, still not sure on that. We are looking into it.

SQ may work in HUI or MCU mode in V4 but it will have limited integration compared to native mode.

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Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad- iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.1 (Mac), Notion 6.7, Ableton Live 10 Suite, LaunchPad Pro
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by Baphometrix on Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:55 pm
Jemusic wroteI am referring to a separate issue that happens after you reset the default settings. Some of the lower pads can sometimes only output a single velocity only. Quite a low velocity. Playing them at any velocity will only output a fixed low velocity. That is fixable by running the firmware update again and will be fixed properly in a future update.

As for the OP faults with double triggering etc, still not sure on that. We are looking into it.

SQ may work in HUI or MCU mode in V4 but it will have limited integration compared to native mode.


If you look at the 3rd video I attached to my support ticket (or the 2nd video in this thread), it seems to me that the double- and multiple-triggered note incidents line up with this description of "output only a fixed low velocity". So I think my problem and this other problem you've already identified are closely related.

Maybe that helps for both issues?

Anyway, thanks for working on this. I really do love the form factor and layout of the SQ and am hopeful y'all think you'll be able to resolve the issue eventually.

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by PreAl on Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:22 pm
Well you could go crazy and run the firmware update again!

Studio One Pro 5, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom Pad, Atom SQ, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental).

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by Jemusic on Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:20 pm
I have a feeling the random triggering issue even without touching a pad is separate thing to the fixed velocity thing.

If you do run the firmware update again please do not reset to default values though.

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Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad- iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.1 (Mac), Notion 6.7, Ableton Live 10 Suite, LaunchPad Pro
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by Baphometrix on Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:16 pm
Jemusic wroteI have a feeling the random triggering issue even without touching a pad is separate thing to the fixed velocity thing.

If you do run the firmware update again please do not reset to default values though.


I have seen that completely random triggering out of nowhere behavior on one key in the top row. But it's very rare. I think it's the 4th or 5th key in the top row where it happens. But again, it's *very* infrequent and only lasts for a short time.

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Faderport 8 | ATOM SQ | MOTU M4 | Push 2 (Shove)
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by PreAl on Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:44 am
Whilst I am waiting for an SQ of my own to be delivered today, I thought I'd try this with an Atom Pad controller and Studio One 4.6.2.
I tried to reproduce the OP's exact conditions.

All I can say is bingo :(

Check out my video...

phpBB [video]

Studio One Pro 5, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom Pad, Atom SQ, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental).

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by PreAl on Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:15 am
I've just tested under the exact same conditions as my previous video, with a Maschine Studio controller (instead of Atom Pad controller) in MIDI mode, Maschine Studio works perfectly - I cannot get it to double trigger.

EDIT - Atom SQ has just arrived 5 minutes ago - and straight away I can reproduce with that.

Studio One Pro 5, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom Pad, Atom SQ, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental).

Intel i9 9900K, 32GB RAM,
EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
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by Jemusic on Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:32 pm
I am seeing this too but only very occasionally with ATOM. This also changes according to the velocity curve you have set. What setting did you use in the video? I noticed that on the lowest threshold I got the odd double trigger. When I set it to the highest setting I got none. I noticed that even the highest velocity threshold is not super high anyway and it is still very easy to tap the pads with reasonable force to get the note. Plus you can still create a wide range of velocities easily.

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Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad- iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.1 (Mac), Notion 6.7, Ableton Live 10 Suite, LaunchPad Pro
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by Baphometrix on Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:33 pm
Jemusic wroteI am seeing this too but only very occasionally with ATOM. This also changes according to the velocity curve you have set. What setting did you use in the video? I noticed that on the lowest threshold I got the odd double trigger. When I set it to the highest setting I got none. I noticed that even the highest velocity threshold is not super high anyway and it is still very easy to tap the pads with reasonable force to get the note. Plus you can still create a wide range of velocities easily.


Some more data points for you. This morning I force-updated the ATOM SQ's firmware and (per your suggestion) did not even crack open the "Setup" Screens.

What was instantly obvious was that the default, unaltered velocity response was VERY different than the Medium or High response (in Setup) that I'd been testing the for the past week. For whatever reason, I can EASILY hit max 127 or down in the 10s for velocity with a very normal and comfortable range of hits.

By contrast, all this past week, if Velocity was set to High I couldn't hit any harder than the 60s. SERIOUSLY. And if Velocity was set to Medium, I couldn't hit harder than the 90s. SERIOUSLY. Only with Velocity at Soft could I actually make Velocities approach 127.

So..... again..... The firmware needs some tweaking. :lol:

Oh, and yes, the double- and multi-triggering still happens very frequently on the lower velocity hits, and can even trigger occasionally from a hit reaching 40-60 for the initial hit. It's BETTER (slightly) with a forced firmware reset and NOT changing the default Setup values in any way. But the multi-triggering is still there.

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Faderport 8 | ATOM SQ | MOTU M4 | Push 2 (Shove)
Windows 10 Home | i9 9900K | 64 GB RAM | Geforce RTX 2070
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by Jemusic on Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:48 pm
In my post as well I was referring to ATOM (Not SQ) as per PreAI's post. But yes resetting firmware does fix the velocity issues with SQ. That will be addressed.

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Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad- iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.1 (Mac), Notion 6.7, Ableton Live 10 Suite, LaunchPad Pro
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by Baphometrix on Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:18 pm
Jemusic wroteIn my post as well I was referring to ATOM (Not SQ) as per PreAI's post. But yes resetting firmware does fix the velocity issues with SQ. That will be addressed.


Yay. :D But just to be 100% clear, what I was saying right above is that I tested resetting firmware on the SQ, and that doing so does NOT "fix the velocity issues". The double- and multi-triggering events are less frequent, but they're still there, with way too much frequency to be usable. I can make a video and show you velocities at least as high as 60 still causing double- and multi-trigger events even after resetting the firmware and not touching the Setup screens at all. (All the subsequent triggers being a velocity of usually just 1 to 4. Usually 1.)

Also, I saw PreAl confirming above that they are seeing on the SQ exactly the same multi-triggering behavior as I've been reporting. (They just got their SQ today.)

Studio One 5.1 Pro (Sphere) | Bitwig 3.2.x | Ableton 10.x
Faderport 8 | ATOM SQ | MOTU M4 | Push 2 (Shove)
Windows 10 Home | i9 9900K | 64 GB RAM | Geforce RTX 2070
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by Jemusic on Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:48 pm
Ok sorry I must have misread that. Well I do know the velocity thing is firmware related to be sure and will be updated. Just not sure when as yet. We are looking into issue in terms of pads triggering themselves or sending out multiple triggers.

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by PreAl on Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:12 pm
shannongreywalker wroteAlso, I saw PreAl confirming above that they are seeing on the SQ exactly the same multi-triggering behavior as I've been reporting. (They just got their SQ today.)


Yup confirming behaviour on SQ (literally straight out of the box) AND classic pad Atom on V4.
Issue does not happen if you use a Maschine Studio controller.

I've just force flashed my SQ but haven't run any tests yet.

Studio One Pro 5, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom Pad, Atom SQ, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental).

Intel i9 9900K, 32GB RAM,
EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
Dell Inspiron 7591 (2 in 1) 16Gb.

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