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Greetings.

I am new to trying to use my SL-III in this manner, but what I am attempting to do is:

Connect StudioLive to Mac via AVB over Ethernet cable.
DONE! I got it to show-up in the Audio/MIDI setup app.

Connect mixer to Universal Control on Mac.
DONE! But, was disappointed it doesn't show-up when connected over ethernet/AVB - I have to switch my Mac's WiFi to the same network that the mixer is hardwired to (a small AirPort hub)... so I am "offline" while my Mac is connected to the Presonus SL-III.
(Is there a better way?)

Load recording file from SD-Card into Capture on Mac, and route the Capture outputs back to the StudioLive for "remote mixing" using the onboard processing.
DONE! But, this is where the issue lies.

I have gone into the Input Source section of the SL (remotely over AVB using UC) and told inputs 1-9 to be AVB and it correctly shows the little "network" icon.

The problem I am having, is that somehow, my mixer is getting back twice as many channels into the mixer than I am sending - it is doubling every track output... so...

Track #1 from Capture is coming in to channels 1 AND 2 on the mixer (identical signal)... track #2 is showing up on channels 3 and 4... (and so-on down the line) I had to go and enable AVB input for 18 channels to confirm that the 9 tracks all show-up duplicated across 18 inputs via AVB.

I have tried resetting things numerous times, disconnecting, reconnecting, not sure if this is a "bug"... or if I am doing something blindly stupid... but it is perplexing to say the least.

My intent is to take live test recordings of the band - pull up the tracks in Capture on my computer, but use Universal Control to utilize the actual StudioLive mixer hardware and plugins to refine the mix before saving to the board. I am running a L+R feed from the mixer output to my Monitors at my workstation. Basically I want to mix and get the sounds dialed-in *on the board* without sitting at the board with headphones - I want to sit at my mix position at my computer and control the SL via UC over AVB.

I know it *should* work, and it kinda does, but this doubling of inputs has me baffled. Thoughts...?

Attachments
Screenshot 2023-02-23 at 3.40.20 PM.png
This shows the "pairs" of tracks coming in - there are only 9 tracks in Capture... but you can see (by green input segments) that every-two inputs are identical.
Screenshot 2023-02-23 at 3.39.58 PM.png
Showing the first 18 channels activated for AVB (after realizing the tracks are coming in double)
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by hsfinlayson on Thu Feb 23, 2023 2:52 pm
Just adding two more screenshots to show settings:

Attachments
Screenshot 2023-02-23 at 3.50.58 PM.png
Screenshot 2023-02-23 at 3.51.11 PM.png
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by SwitchBack on Thu Feb 23, 2023 4:20 pm
Hi and welcome to this forum :)

Have you tried Studio One instead of Capture? Capture is rather restricted regarding routing. Studio One gives you way better control over what goes where. You can open a Capture session in Studio One and you can import the mixer settings too.

And speaking of Studio One, have a look at this manual. Integration between Studio One and Series III mixers is such that you can control mixer preamps and the FAT channel for each channel from Studio One. That way you wouldn't need to use UC either.

As for using your Mac for AVB, UC and stay online at the same time you'll have to connect the mixer's control port to your LAN-router. :)
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by wahlerstudios on Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:01 pm
Universal Control 4.0 Milestone Release Notes 12/6/2022:

● "USB Compatibility Mode - Allows users to lower the USB channel count from 64 in - 64 out to 34 in - 34 out for compatibility with certain Intel computers, which exhibit USB recording and playback issues with higher stream counts."

It might be that your Mac has a USB problem, so try the new USB Compatibility Mode.

One thing you should NOT do is to run both Capture versions at the same time. There is no real way to close the mixer's Capture (SD card), so it needs a power-cycling of the mixer to clear everything for Capture running on a computer. Theoretically it should be possible to run both Capture versions at the same time, but practically this does not make sense and probably will cause havoc.

The "small AirPort hub" may also cause problems. You need a direct connections between mixer and Mac and keep in mind that the mixer uses USB 2. The USB connection of your Mac must be "backwards-compatible".

When Capture/Mac plays the recorded tracks, you have to change input source of the channels to USB. Capture uses a "fixed "routing. Track 1 always sends its audio 'back' to channel 1. Capture can record stereo tracks, but you will literally see the difference between mono and stereo tracks.
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by hsfinlayson on Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:24 pm
Thank you for the prompt reply.

Sadly, I am having a different set of issues trying through Studio One.
Let me state upfront: EVERYTHING is updated... all software and firmware... even macOS.

If you look at the screenshots, I am posting the image from the manual which shows the StudioLive Icon and name with all the expected I/O... and then the screenshot from *my* setup window attached to *my* StudioLive - and it looks like a "generic" 2-ch interface icon.

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Screenshot 2023-02-23 at 6.20.46 PM.png
Screenshot 2023-02-23 at 6.20.20 PM.png
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by hsfinlayson on Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:36 pm
And if I try to manually add more inputs or outputs, it only allows me to assign anything to the first 2 (as if it was a 2-ch interface)

Attachments
Screenshot 2023-02-23 at 6.35.01 PM.png
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by hsfinlayson on Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:45 pm
wahlerstudios wroteUniversal Control 4.0 Milestone Release Notes 12/6/2022:

● "USB Compatibility Mode - Allows users to lower the USB channel count from 64 in - 64 out to 34 in - 34 out for compatibility with certain Intel computers, which exhibit USB recording and playback issues with higher stream counts."

It might be that your Mac has a USB problem, so try the new USB Compatibility Mode.


Wait - this may be my ignorance, but I am now more confused:

I thought the whole point of the AVB connection was to be able to "control" the mixer remotely - no need for USB. Am I incorrect...? I am not connected via USB in any way... nor do I have a USB cable over 25' long.

EDIT: I was under the impression that with a 50' Ethernet/AVB connection and the audio outputs both run out to my mix position, I could mix/control my StudioLive... I did not think a USB connection was necessary.

EDIT #2: Didn't PreSonus once offer a control-surface ONLY, that had no processing or audio pass-through (for use with the rack mixers) that connected over the AVB protocol to control the FOH functions remotely over a single ethernet cable...? I presumed (maybe foolishly) that AVB allowed for audio & data control... but maybe I'm in over my head here.
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by hsfinlayson on Thu Feb 23, 2023 6:02 pm
Let me try this a different way.

I want to refine/save mixes to my Presonus StudioLive, but do it remotely from a different room and listening position.

I want to be able to control the playback/looping & channel selection from my computer and have the mixer's audio come through my reference monitors.

I already have run the 50' audio cables into my mix position area.

What connections must be made in order for me to send the audio tracks back into my mixer on the desired channels... use the onboard processing and routing... and save said mixes/scenes to the unit remotely.

While I know I technically can do it via my iPad, I do not *want* to mix via the ipad.

In a perfect world, it'd be able to happen (if I understood a previous reply) all from within Studio One... load the tracks... and use the fat channel on-screen as it controls the mixer's hardware.

Please help advise the correct connections.
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by wahlerstudios on Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:06 pm
It is possible to extend the length of USB connections. There was a discussion in one of the Facebook groups and a user found out, that the StarTech "7 Port Compact USB 3.0 Hub" allowed him to place mixer and computer in separate studio rooms. The distance was 25 ft and the solution actually shortened latency in comparison to a 'normal' USB connection. I can imagine that 50 ft would be no problem.

Yes, you can replace USB by AVB, but then you are moving to a totally different world, which is called AVDECC. You can find information about AVDECC and HIVE in the PreSonus website, but as this is no official PreSonus 'product', you won't get any support. You will have to find out yourself how it works.

https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/s ... Networking

Nevertheless, Capture will not work with AVDECC. Capture/computer needs a USB connection. Studio One will work via AVB/AVDECC.
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by SwitchBack on Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:48 pm
I thought this was about AVB and AVDECC from the start, no USB. AVB 'only' gives you exchange of AVB channels and clock, no mixer control. A CAT5e/CAT6 cable between the mixer's audio network port and the Mac's network port (or TB adapter) is all you need for AVB to work.

For UC to work from the Mac the mixer (control port) and the computer (WiFi) need to be on the same LAN. This can be your home LAN+WiFi which also connects to the internet. That way the Mac can be online and control the mixer at the same time, through UC. No need for USB, it might even mess things up.

But steer clear of Capture in this setup, as it wasn't intended to be much more than a recorder app, probably only with USB in mind. Use Studio One to play back the previously recorded Capture session on the correct AVB channels. And the Integration Guide I recommended in my previous post might give you some ideas on how to do the mix refinements from Studio One too. In that case you wouldn't need UC but you would still need the LAN connection (because you need remote control).
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by hsfinlayson on Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:29 am
Thank you all. It appears that there's no escaping a USB connection if I want the workflow I desire, so... I guess I will relocate the mixer closer to my computer, and just use the NSB box(es) to connect audio remotely - and use an iPad in the live area to control what I need, when I need to.

Shame, because it got me "so close" the way I had it... but clearly the doubling of tracks in this AVB/WiFi/Capture/UC setup was not going to work.

Will relocate, rewire, and re-try.

Thanks.
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by SwitchBack on Fri Feb 24, 2023 4:30 am
AVB = audio & clock only
LAN = control & updates only
USB = audio & control (& updates, but very slow)
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by wahlerstudios on Fri Feb 24, 2023 7:33 am
A NSB stagebox will solve your 'problem', but it should be the NSB 16.8 with its 16 inputs and 8 outputs. Then you can run your computer in a distant room without losing any functionalities. What you need then is a network for remote control and a tablet or laptop or convertible to control the mixer and the computer (UC Surface, Capture, Studio One). As you may know already, Capture will show up in UC Surface and you have access to almost all functions. There is also an iPad app for Studio One, but when you want to record a band, this app is not very 'comfortable'.

An other solution could be to add a rack mixer (16R, 24R, 32R) and make use of their different 'modes'. One mode is Stagebox Mode, which bypasses all functions of the mixer. The other modes are Monitor Mixer Mode and Stand-alone Mode, which both open the option to use the entire 64x64 USB matrix. Just the 16R is an exception, because it's a 'small' mixer. It has a 34x34 USB matrix, the AVB matrix is 64x64 though. Using USB of a rack mixer would also allow to use UC Surface (and Capture and Studio One) in the live room, so it doesn't need remote control.

I add a screenshot showing Capture in UC Surface in a minimal screen configuration. Any bigger (touch)screen allows more visual and physcial control. Capture will show up in UC Surface when mixer and computer use the same network.

Attachments
capture_UCsurface.jpg
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by SwitchBack on Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:03 am
I'm getting more and more confused here.

If the goal is to tweak the mix of an SD card recording, using the mixer's DSP, but from a long way away and you have a stagebox,

Then I would place the stagebox where you want to do the mixing (you only need two AVB channels for your headphones or whatever you want to use for hearing what you're doing). You need a CAT5e/CAT6 cable for the AVB connection between mixer and stagebox. Then you want to run UC on the computer to control the mixer. You need a LAN connection with the mixer's control port for that (ethernet or WiFi).

And leave the SD card in the mixer since you can control that card from UC too. Which wouldn't need Capture or S1 on the computer at all.
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by hsfinlayson on Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:12 am
Thank you - and to bring this 360-degrees back to my original post... I just figured-out what was going wrong.

I was 99% there... but the tracks were doubled.

Apparently, I needed to ignore the .capture file created by the SD Card on the mixer, and just drag the raw audio files into a NEW Capture session.

Why...?

The pre-made session (for whatever reason) was treating each mono track as a stereo pair, so my kick(In) signal was sent to 1&2... my Kick(Out) signal (which should have been ch 2) was sent to 3&4 and so-on.

I was unable to change/move the tracks in that particulat Capture session, so simply creating a new empty one and dragging the raw audio files into it solved the problem.

I can connect audio via AVB and control the mixer and fat channel over WiFi/UniversalControl.

Mystery & problem solved.
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by SwitchBack on Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:14 am
Congrats! :)
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by hsfinlayson on Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:18 am
SwitchBack wroteAnd leave the SD card in the mixer since you can control that card from UC too. Which wouldn't need Capture or S1 on the computer at all.


As far as I know (which isn't much) one does not get the same control of the session as one would using the desktop Capture app... specifically, getting to see the waveforms in each track lane, being able to draw a loop selection around regions to do a soundcheck, etc...

I use it to soundcheck my kit... 5 seconds of kick hits, 5 seconds of snare hits... tom hits... overheads... etc. etc. etc. - then loop each instrument time region while I tweak the fat channel... then slide the loop region to the next drum.

I do not know if I can do that remotely with the SD card and tracks.
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by SwitchBack on Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:27 am
Correct, remote SD card control is rather limited.
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by wahlerstudios on Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:30 am
Capture/SD card does not allow to work with the timeline, but Capture/PC makes this possible. What you can do is to export the files in Capture/PC to the correct SD Card format. It's not just the files, it needs a certain file structure.

NEVER use both Capture versions at the same time. You have to power-cycle the mixer to turn Capture/SD off.
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by hsfinlayson on Fri Feb 24, 2023 3:15 pm
*sigh* FML... I just placed an NSB-16.8 between my StudioLive and my Mac - and lord knows why, but it does not stream audio back to the SLsIII like it did with a direct connection from Mac-to-AVB port.

Time to do some more reading, I guess.

UPDATE: This is why luddites like myself should stick with analog gear. :D
Clearly joking, but this digital networking stuff makes my eyes glaze over.

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