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You guys, I bet this was answered before, sorry for my laziness to look for this:

I got a bunch of subgrouping for my drums mix when using SL32sc and I pretty much like how it all sounds, especially when I fine tune it with Capture.

However, if I wanted to "copy" all this into Studio One, is it possible to mirror the subgroups, in a similar way as it's done with the Fat channel?

Thanks
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by wahlerstudios on Sat May 21, 2022 3:47 pm
Mixes and buses of hardware and software are strictly separated, which in 99 of 100 cases will make sense... 😊 Your situation is a special one and if you're thinking more about sound processing, it might make sense to use Studio One instead of Capture and record and mix in DAW Mode. But there is no remote control for DAW Mode. You would need to have the StudioLive console sitting next to you.

The Fat Channel feature is unique, because it's the only thing that found it's way from the StudioLive mixers to Studio One and made both sides use the same technical approach. The input/gain section is also sharedk, but that's it. There is nothing else that the two worlds share.
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by damirvukelic1 on Sat May 21, 2022 8:30 pm
Well here it is, it is actually sitting next to me :)

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Screenshot_20220522-042905_Gallery.jpg
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by wahlerstudios on Sun May 22, 2022 7:24 am
Unfortunately, the 32SC lacks most of the DAW Mode features (scribble strips, buttons, encoders), so using a computer with a (big) touchscreen together with the 32SC "controller" is essential. The 32SC controller can handle everything related to levels and on/off functions - for the rest you will need the computer and something that can replace the mouse. If a touchscreen can become the "heart" of your system, DAW Mode will make your work easier and your workflow more effective.
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by SwitchBack on Sun May 22, 2022 12:05 pm
Making sure I understand your workflow:
- You’re recording using Capture, on your computer or on SD-card
- You play back the recording to your mixer
- You tweak the mix which includes FAT and panning on channels and subgroups
- Now you want to replicate that mix in Studio One. Correct so far?

As Wahler explained, a Capture recording can be made to include channel FAT settings (for import in S1) but not the subgroup FAT and panning settings. What you could do to help replicating the mix in S1 is to copy your mixer’s subgroup FAT settings to any spare channels you may have on your mixer. That way you can include them in the/a Capture file for import in S1. In S1 you can then copy the settings to the mix buses. It may not include everything though (panning in particular).
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by damirvukelic1 on Wed May 25, 2022 7:10 am
@wahler,
of course, I am always having my computer with me.

@switchback
correct. that's my workflow, at least it is the way I do recordings when I only want to use the mixer to get the sound/mix fast; I found a way to connect my phone to the mixer so when I am recording a video it automatically records the sound coming from the mixer (instead of phone's internal mic). So this way, everything I record with my phone connected to the mixer, it is pretty much a decent and done mix I can, say, instantly share with someone or on social networks.

Now, 2 questions for both of you guys:

1. Yesterday I did some recordings and I mirrored my fat channel settings into the studio one.
The sound of the recording was nowhere near of how it sounds when I am listening through Capture. Even if we disregard the subgroups I have on the mixer, there is still a noticeable difference.
The reason I did this was because I wanted to carry on in Studio One with current SL settings/sound in place of how it all sounds with the mixer only, and just add some finetuning in Studio One. I ended up doing a whole new mix in Studio One, and I even removed the mirrored fat channel settings on some of the inputs.
Shouldn't Studio One, together with fat channels "copies" be able to reproduce as close mix as Capture does?

2. I went ahead anyways and used (in studio one) USB out #64 as output for mix 1 (my kicks subgroup) and I got something going on, but I am not sure what exactly. It even copied some fatchannel settings, plus the wave form looked and sounded as if it was already processed...similar to how my kicks subgroup should sound. What was that? :)
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by wahlerstudios on Wed May 25, 2022 9:18 am
Capture will always use soundprocessing of the StudioLive mixer, while Studio One uses its own processing, which is far better and more detailed. Using a computer does make a difference and you will hear it and the "better" the computer is, the better the sound will be. This is another reason why I recommend to use Studio One processing only.

Basically, there should not be a difference between USB 64 and USB 1 and any USB path in between. When you route USB 64 to a subgroup and use it as input for the subgroup, you might need to check where sound processing is happening. Subgroups of StudioLive mixers have their own Fat Channels and you can even assign GEQs to subgroups. Buses in Studio One have inserts, so they can also add sound processing.
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by damirvukelic1 on Wed May 25, 2022 9:34 am
The problem is that I expected the studio one recording to sound (exactly) the same as Capture after I mirrored fat channel settings into studio one. However, it sounded awful.
Then again, it might be that fatchannels were not all successfully relayed from the mixer and into the S1 session.
I'll try that again and pay closer attention
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by SwitchBack on Wed May 25, 2022 5:21 pm
I wonder, on every mixer channel you have a choice between Pre and Post FAT digital sends. The latter will (amongst other things) make the Capture recording post FAT too. Make sure that Digital Send is set to Pre FAT if you want to do all processing in S1.

I did a bit of experimenting with opening a Capture recording with saved scene settings in S1 and it does a nice job copying all FAT settings to the appropriate channels and subgroups (which are mix buses in S1). It also does the panning on mono channels, creates stereo channels and buses where appropriate and it even inserts a binaural pan on stereo channels where panning wasn't linked.

What it didn't do, or not correctly, was channel/bus assignment and stereo panning, e.g. for that binaural pan. And the standard FAT EQ in S1 is limited to 4 bands where subgroups and outputs on the mixer have 6. So most of the work is done but not all.

Soundwise the S1 FAT XT should sound the same as the mixer FAT. I think it's even the same code. Do you listen to S1's main mix through your SL mixer or do you use some other interface?
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by damirvukelic1 on Thu May 26, 2022 8:06 pm
I am doing all my recording and listening on the same monitors (and thru SL mixer)
I did my best today to make a new session in studio one that will 99% mirror the processing of the SL.
However, it definitely is a subpar experience, for me at least.
At this moment I am having a better mix coming straight from the SL vs S1 (which I tried to enhance with some more plugins, but some parts of the mix just seem underdeveloped, such as toms)

If you care to listen both versions, here they are (I ended up with a lot more processing in studio one, only to get...a different snare... while the processing on the toms is as close as possible as on the mixer, but listen how mixer's toms are much more defined and concrete when compared how they went out of the s1)
Mixer:
https://youtu.be/drl4fWhekPI

S1:
https://youtu.be/7zbirncpzqQ
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by wahlerstudios on Fri May 27, 2022 4:09 pm
Yes and of course, there are differences. The S1 mix has less level on toms and more on cymbals. There also seems to be soem additional sound processing on toms in the StudioLive mix. I do believe that it's possible to get the mixes sound identical or nearly identical, but you will always need to spend time and effort. It's the question if it's worth it. I think it will make more sense to concentrate on one approach and develop and optimize the workflow. One of the main reasons to use Studio One is the central on/off button for inserts, which allows to listen to everything with or without sound processing. Capture and the StudioLive mixers do not have this feature.
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by SwitchBack on Fri May 27, 2022 4:56 pm
Yeah, the SL mix sounds tighter. Makes me wonder if Console Shaper is active in S1.

Did you manage to technically match all settings for FAT, panning and input/output assignment for all channels and subgroups? Note that if you used more than 4 EQ bands on subgroups and/or main output that you can simply insert an extra FAT Channel XT in S1 just for the missing EQ bands.
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by damirvukelic1 on Sat May 28, 2022 11:23 am
I'll try my best to again transfer all to S1, together with subgroups and stuff... and see how it works out
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by damirvukelic1 on Sun May 29, 2022 1:35 pm
Ok I again redid everything, rechecked if the fat channel settings were indeed mirrored the same as on the mixer, and then I proceded to set faders to the same levels.
After that I created subgroups (busses in this case) that are identical to those in SL3 and I got a little bit better results. However, the snare and the toms are VISIBLY better when listening from Capture. Can't get near those sounds in S1....The cymbals are also more out of control in Studio one.

So ok, I might abandon this idea, and work from scratch in Studio one, however, one idea came across to me, I might have even asked this before:
Is it possible to export the session from Capture and write all its effects to the exported files, and how?
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by wahlerstudios on Sun May 29, 2022 5:34 pm
Captue can not export any sound settings, just the recorded tracks (which can contain sound processing already). But you could also record a mix in Capture, which then includes all sound processing. It's possible to play the tracks and record the mix simultaneously.
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by damirvukelic1 on Sun May 29, 2022 6:26 pm
Alright, how? 😀
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by wahlerstudios on Sun May 29, 2022 8:06 pm
Just arm stereo tracks 33+34, which are by default routed to Main L/R. Then create your mix and record it... :)
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by wahlerstudios on Mon May 30, 2022 5:56 am
SwitchBack encouraged me to explain my remark about the export function(s) of Capture. I was talking about pure track exports, as the screenshot (from the manual) shows. Capture does NOT include any sound processing when exporting tracks.

The other option would be to use the Capture mix scene. The mix scenes do include and transfer sound processing settings, but also network settings and mixes and buses and effect settings and, and, and... You can open a Capture project in Studio One and the Capture mix scene transfers all these settings to Studio One. This literally makes Studio One "mirror" the StudioLive mixer, which was used for the recording.

Mix scenes and the transfer to Studio One are very nice features, but they're not perfect and you really should know what you're doing.

Attachments
SDcard_export.jpg
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by damirvukelic1 on Mon May 30, 2022 6:15 am
Can you guess my next step? :)
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by damirvukelic1 on Mon May 30, 2022 6:18 am
I did try to open the capture project in studio one, it mirrored what was in the mixer (minus subgroups) and then I manually added the subgroups to try to replicate the sound I was getting from the mixer. It was subpar (again).

But...
What do you mean mix scenes?

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