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I have read over the StageBox mode Addendum and have some questions. My understanding is that you connect the 32R Stagebox to the Series III 32 console by Cat5e cable connected in to the network connection on the back of the console. You can then select specific channels from the console to accept input signal from the network (Stagebox) or from the console by selecting Analog or from the computer by selecting USB. I got that information just fine. Sorry all for the elongated list of questions, I just want to clarify what is going on as this is going to something I think many users would like to know. Thanks in advance. If someone from presonus can answer with definitive answers that would be great.
The question for this portion is: Do you need to connect the rack mixer to the wifi network to use it in all stagebox modes or just in those that require separate Aux mixes (ie Mix mode and Mix+Preamp mode)? The complicated part is what the different stage box modes are used for. The stage box mode appears to take all inputs and outputs from the stagebox only unless Analog is selected for a specific channel, is this correct? The 2nd question is can you control the preamps + phantom power of the channels with signal coming from the stage box to the console in stagebox mode (ie channel 1 on the stagebox is sending a condenser mic signal back to the console, and you want to adjust the input/trim level and phantom power on that channel via ipad (console is connected to wifi network and UC is running on the ipad)? The 3rd question would be for the stagbox mode is: Can you use the outputs on the console for Aux outs and main outs (this would allow you to have room processing in between your main outs and your front of house speakers as well as processing to reduce feedback between some of your aux outs and floor wedges? Monitor Mix mode appears to allow the user to have local outputs from both the console and the stagebox. According to the ProTip in the addendum states that would allow you to actually have 32 Aux sends in total - 16 from a 32 console and 16 separate Aux mixs from the Stagebox. My question is: How do you control each set of Aux mixes separately from one another when using 1 instance of UC control? In Monitor Mix mode Do the additional Aux mixes show up as 17-32? (In Monitor Mix mode)Or do you need to disconnect remote control of the console in UC control and reconnect to the rack mixer/stagebox to control the additional auxes? (In Monitor Mix mode ) And if that is the case do you need to set up each of the musicians smart devices to control there aux mix to a separate device (either stagebox or console) even though its one set of inputs, regardless of the inputs are coming from the stage box to the console or you are taking a local signal from the console and sending it to the stagebox? After all is said and done when would you use Preamp+Monitor Mix mode, with a console if you can control the preamp on the mixer with the UC app when connected to the wifi network? |
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These are the answers I received if anyone is interested. Hope this helps others make informed decisions.
Do you need to connect the rack mixer to the wifi network to use it in all stagebox modes or just in those that require separate Aux mixes (ie Mix mode and Mix+Preamp mode)?" Only if you wish to control Aux mixes from an iPad or computer, or any other wireless parameter control in general. A wifi network is NOT necessary for basic operation. The 2nd question is can you control the preamps + phantom power of the channels with signal coming from the stage box to the console in stagebox mode (ie channel 1 on the stagebox is sending a condenser mic signal back to the console, and you want to adjust the input/trim level and phantom power on that channel via ipad (console is connected to wifi network and UC is running on the ipad)? Yes. Full preamp gain and +48v phantom power can be controlled wirelessly from an iPad or other compatible devices. The 3rd question would be for the stagbox mode is: Can you use the outputs on the console for Aux outs and main outs (this would allow you to have room processing in between your main outs and your front of house speakers as well as processing to reduce feedback between some of your aux outs and floor wedges? Yes. This works with or without stagebox mode. All outputs have a 6-band parametric EQ, and you can also use one of the available 31-band Graphic EQs to reduce feedback. Monitor Mix mode appears to allow the user to have local outputs from both the console and the stagebox. According to the ProTip in the addendum states that would allow you to actually have 32 Aux sends in total - 16 from a 32 console and 16 separate Aux mixs from the Stagebox. My question is: How do you control each set of Aux mixes separately from one another when using 1 instance of UC control? You would need to select either the Console or Rack mixer respectively when starting UC Surface. In Monitor Mix mode: Do the additional Aux mixes show up as 17-32? No. They will appear as 1-16 for the chosen console or rack respectively. (In Monitor Mix mode appears)Or do you need to disconnect remote control of the console in UC control and reconnect to the rack mixer/stagebox to control the additional auxes? No. There is a "home" page of sorts to be able to select which mixer you wish to control. (In Monitor Mix mode appears ) And if that is the case do you need to set up each of the musicians smart devices to control there aux mix to a separate device (either stagebox or console) even though its one set of inputs, regardless of the inputs are coming from the stage box to the console or you are taking a local signal from the console and sending it to the stagebox? You would want to assign the smart devices to control the Stagebox in this application. Since the outputs would be coming from it. When Monitor Mix mode is active, preamp gain and phantom power control cannot be controlled locally on the rack mixer. Your rack mixer preamps will be controlled remotely via the Input section on the Fat Channel of the console mixer when Network is selected as the Input Source. When the stagebox is set to Monitor mix mode you can control the Aux outs of the stagebox separately from the console allowing a total of 32 Aux outs. The second group of Aux out will be able to have the same signals as the console regardless of whether the signal is coming analog to the console or from network (the stage box). I would just need to jump into the console UC control or switch to the stagebox UC control to individually mix separate aux mixes, provided that the stage box is also hooked into the wifi network. Is that correct? Correct. I just want to confirm that regardless of whether the signal is coming from the analog input (local input on the console ) or network coming from the stagebox, both the anolog and the network signal will be available to send to both Aux mixes both from the console and from the stage box... is that correct? Yes. Also I just want to confirm that regardless of whether the channel is set to network or anolog the signal can be recorded with the SD drive on the console or on the computer from a usb connection going into capture. Is this correct as well? Yes. |
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Thank you for posting your answers.
Lenovo 29" A2 I7 touch, Studio One 2 Pro, X3e, Xa, Sonar 4-8, Win 8 64 bit, DAW: Intel Core i7 4960X@ 3.60GHz, ASROCK EXTREME mottherboard, 48GB DDR3 1600MHz, Nvidea NVS 510, 488GB SSD, 300GB SSD, 12TB in SATA Hardware: VS-700 set, Presonus RM32AI, Studio Live 24.4.4. & 16.0.2, Central Station, RME Fireface 800, Matrox MX02 Rack, Roland Integra 7, Roland A-88, Edirol R-4 Pro, Focusrite Liquid Channel x 2, Jomeek Studio Channel VC1Qcs, Ultra Dyne 9024, loads of analogue stuff. Roland TD30KV, Komplete 9 Ultimate, Monitors: JBL Studio Monitor 4412, SE Monroe Egg 150, M-Audio CX5,
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Here are some additional questions I had answered:
Regardless of whether the signal is coming from the analog input (local input on the console ) or network coming from the stagebox, both the analog and the network signal will be available to send to both Aux mixes both from the console and from the stage box... is that correct? Yes. Also I just want to confirm that regardless of whether the channel is set to network or anolog the signal can be recorded with the SD drive on the console or on the computer from a usb connection going into capture. Is this correct as well? Yes. My question is if the mixer is connected to the wifi network and not the stagebox, (however the stagebox is connected to the mixer AVB port), The console can control the preamps on the stagebox in both stagebox and monitor mix mode correct? Per the Addendum document. You CAN unless you have the preamp control OFF Once the Network input has been selected on the StudioLive Series III console mixer, you can remote control the preamp level and phantom power for your rackmount mixer from the top panel of your console mixer. Note: When “Off” is selected for Stagebox mode, preamp and phantom power control will not be active. If the mixer is controlling the preamps of stagebox without the stage box connected to the wifi network and the mixer/Console is hooked to the wifi network, you should be able to control the preamps of the stagebox on an ipad as you would be actually controlling the consoles preamps which in turn would be controlling the preamps on the stagebox, is this correct? Or am I missing something? Being on wifi does not enable or disable the FOH console from controlling preamps on the stagebox. If you wish to control the preamps on the stagebox from an iPad, you would need to have the stagebox connected to wifi. The only exception to this is if you are using the Stagebox mode configuration, then only the FOH console would need to be connected to wifi, while the stagebox is connected via ethernet cable through the "Network Audio" port. Would Aux outs be a mirror source of the Aux out of the console when in stagebox mode (obviously not in monitor mix mode where the aux sends are different for mixer and stagebox)? Yes, in stagebox mode, the mixer DSP on the StudioLive Series III rackmount mixer is bypassed and all of the Mix OutPuts are sourced from the Series III console mixer. |
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Let me add three remarks:
1) It would be better not to speak of "stageboxes" any longer, but of rack mixers which allow several stagebox functions. There will be two more stageboxes coming, which probably will be exactly that (boxes with no own processing). The Series III rack mixers are very similar to the AI rack mixers. There are a few functions more possible now because of AVB II. 2) We should understand the term "stagebox mode" as "rack mixer mode" and re-think the modes from there. We have four modes: a) Stagebox b) Monitor Mix c) Monitor Mix + Preamps d) Off Stagebox mode bypasses all functions of the rack mixer. All you can do is using the physical inputs and outputs. Any processing and controlling is done on the console. In Monitor Mix mode preamp gain and phantom power control remain on the console, but auxes/flex mixes are mixed on the rack mixer. The Mains mix bus of the rack mixer is disabled, L/R outputs (PA) are sourced from the console. Monitor Mix + Preamps Mode just adds preamp gain and phantom power control to the rack mixer, which makes the monitor mixes totally independent from the PA mix. Also in this mode the Mains mix bus of the rack mixer is disabled, L/R outputs (PA) are sourced from the console. Off Input channels stay shared and can be used in any direction, but all outputs (L/R, auxes/subs) get separated. We have seen several modes already with the AI rack mixers, but the modes could not be selected or switched. The way you use the rack mixer determines its actual mode. The RM mixers have the additonal feature of cascading two mixers via AVB, which creates a 64 channel mixer (inputs) and 16 flex mixes. The new "home" button is also used with two RM mixers in an AVB network, but I think placing it on the settings page was not a good idea. 3) What I find suspect with the new rack mixers and modes b) to d) is the need of always running two CAT5 cables, one for direct connection or AVB and one for WiFi. This seems to be the price for not using WiFi dongles any longer, which for example allows the remote use of a CS18AI. Just connect a router to the RM mixer and the CS18AI becomes a control device like an iPad. I read the Addendum and the questions and answers, but some things are still unclear. We will see it when the rack mixers are available and all firmwares and softwares involved are updated. Still the coming personal monitor mixers need to be integrated into the "ecosystem". How do they get their signals and where do the signals and/or the pre-mixes come from...? I don't think that the Addendum is finished yet... |
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Here are the latest group of questions I got responses to:
So the only way of knowing how many devices can be hooked up simultaneously to 1 wifi network is by trying it? Or is there some other way to know to better set systems up and make sure they work in advance (without having to own 32 devices)? Correct. However, we have not tested that many devices at once ourselves, because that is a very unusual use case. If I were to set up a second network for monitor mix mode and attach it to the rack mixer/ stagebox, and if I switch networks back and forth with 1 computer and 1 main Ipad main device to assist musicians in making monitor mixes, will the info of the aux mixes be retained within the console and rack mixer (even though I am changing networks and hence loosing connection with each device when changing networks)? I may need to retract my previous statement. This has not been tested any you may experience issues attempting to use more than one wireless network with a Series III Console and Series III rack networked over AVB Also if there is a wifi router that you have found that has significantly high counts of devices connected, can you let me know which one it was and how many devices the router capped off at? I work with very large wedding bands and am trying to optimize with 1 router if possible and if need be a second one. That is why I would need this info. The best performing router we have seen is the Apple Airport Extreme (6th Gen). We have not "maxed out" or "capped off" this device, but I have heard it to run around 10-12 devices wirelessly with no issue. We cannot officially support many more devices than that, but in theory, you should be able to add more. |
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You are asking for the maximum amount of devices controlling monitors. On the QMix-UC page it says: "With free PreSonus QMix-UC software, up to 14 musicians can simultaneously control their StudioLive mixer’s monitor mixes".
If I read it right your goal is to supply 32 mono aux mixes. It is only a combination of SL 32 and SL32R, that can supply 32 aux outputs. For this the network needs to be set to Off" mode, which means that 16 aux mixes are physically available on stage and 16 at FOH. The Addendum says that in "Off" mode all outputs of the console are disconnected from the rack mixer, so you will need to transport 18 signals (16 auxes + Main mix) from FOH to stage. Obviously this can be done by a conventional copper snake, but additionally you will also need to run two (!) CAT5 cables to connect the mixers, the AVB switch and the routers. A lot of effort, but doable and if the musicians like the result, it will be worth it. Using two routers - one for each mixer - theoretically may work, but switching networks for control purposes is no fun and can be very confusing, as experience tells. It has always been possible to switch between two AI console or rack mixers or both in UC Surface, but you really need to watch out, which mixer you are working on, because everything looks the same. It is easy to get lost and anyway it always takes a moment to be able to continue mixing on the other mixer. Therefore it is better to have dedicated control for both mixers. Use one iPad for aux mixes 1-16 on the console and one iPad for aux mixes 1-16 (your aux mixes 17-32) on the rack mixer. Then you always know which fader belongs to what...  In "Off" mode I would expect that both mixers keep the info (channel name). If channel 1 is named "kick" during the time when both mixers are connected, channel 1 should be labeled "kick" on both mixers after deconnection. It seems that the Series III mixers use scenes more than the AI family, so it might be a way to write a basic scene, load it on both mixers and store scene changes on the individual mixer. In the AI ecosystem you can label channels anywhere. The name appears immediately on all devices involved (mixers/stageboxes, computer, iPads, Studio One/Capture...). |
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Yes. The intention was if needed I would be able to have 32 mono Aux mixes. After receiving the answer I posted the reply for the benefit of others. From what I gathered the way I will operate, is that the console will contain the main bands aux mixes and wedges. The additional players will have quick mixes done by me afterwards by changing devices on an ipad and quickly going through anything that the addition players (string section) want in their mixes if I can swing it. I was really hoping to have all players be able to control their mixes though with smart devices.
I may try 2 different networks and have the stage box on a separate network for those additional aux mixes if possible and let the additional musicians mix it for themselves, while the inputs coming from stagebox and console, in monitor mix mode, should not be affected by going AVB to the stagebox and console. That is why a previous question asked if the signal; regardless from where the input is coming from (ie console or stagebox) will go to both mixer and stagebox for use in aux mixes. Unless you think this wont work.... |
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You are right. Also "Monitor Mix" allows to mix 16 auxes on the rack mixer and 16 auxes on the console AND the PA signal Main Left/Right mix of the rack mixer is sourced from the console mixer. There will not be 18 XLR lines needed, but 16. The "Off" mode is good for other purposes.
What you intend to do, should work. Regarding the two networks, keep in mind to use different sets of IP addresses. I once had two Apple routers involved and didn't remember they were using identical IP addresses. FOH mixer and monitor mixer were partly fighting against each other during the concert. The set-up was very similar to the set-up you have in mind. Being able to supply 32 aux mixes is a big thing, but musicians tend to see things their own way.  Some may get along with a mono mix (guitar and bass players), but drummers and keyboard players will miss the "space" of their instrument. Also many musicians (string section) are not used to in-ear monitoring or conventional monitoring at all. For a string section it might be a better approach to create a specialized stereo mix for them and distribute this mix to all the players. Thinking in "instrument groups" versus thinking in "individual mixes" can help to use the aux mixes in a musically better way. |
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Thanks so much for the clarification. I appreciate the info regarding string sections. I do already have a stereo in ear feed usually for the drummer, and lead singers most other musicians are fine with a clean in ear mono mix. I may try to set up multiple headphone boxes with just one stereo feed of the main mix for the string section. I can probably support everyone else with independent in ears and a few wedges.
In your opinion what sort of instruments do the strings generally want to hear in their mix? Do they want to hear more of the overall strings, a mix of the band with singers or with out...? Would you also say the same thing for horn sections or do sax and trumpets usually prefer their own mixes... Any thoughts regarding the horn mixes? Would you suggest 2 different brands of routers or would the same one be okay... I know you mentioned something about IP addresses, but I am not sure how to make sure they have 2 different ones if you are saying you ended up with 2 routers with the same IP address... |
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Here is a document, explaining how to configure Apple routers: https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?f=202&t=4847. But this is already more than I know and want to know. In these kind of questions I have IT specialists at hand. I'm a musician...
It is recommended to use "dual band" routers and activate both frequency bands. This helps in crowded rooms.What musicians want to hear in-ear - well, that is a "good" question and the answer is: it depends. Unless you are working with professional musicians, a very normal approach for musicians is to use in-ear monitoring as protection against things somebody doesn't want to hear. For example, singers are always happy to keep the "too loud band" out of their ears. String sections also tend to look for some protection, which means that they ask for "just strings" in their mix in order to finally be able to hear themselves again... The question is always how to "connect" all players with each other. If there is a musical leader in the band, it is a question he has to consider; if there is no leader, the sound engineer has to be the chaos master. What I would look for in the all in-ear mixes are "steady" signals, which have to be kick and snare as rhythmic orientation for EVERYBODY and one reliable harmonic orientation, which mostly is a piano (if it is played in a solid way). All the rest is kind of variable. Some singers need a piano as orientation, other singers prefer bass guitar. 10 musicians have 10 different vision how their sound shall be. The better you can serve individual needs, the better the overall result will be. If you still have the time, wait for Christmas this year. Until then the "personal monitor mixers" will be available, which follow a different approach. All musicians get the same "stems" and can adjust the sound events to their liking. Most likely there will be 16 stems, which correspond to the 16 aux mixes of all Series III consoles and rack mixers. You can use them mono or stereo in any combination. Probably PreSonus will show up with a different approach than all the other manufacturers. It was said that the mixers will follow the AVIOM tradition. |
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Thanks for the input. I recently purchased a dual band N series router from Linsky. I hope that works. In regards to personal monitor mixers I hope they are looking for a way to allow all 32 channels to be adjusted by the musicians. As a drummer myself in addition to being an engineer, I like to have full control of everything, in addition I know that some system let the musicians also have independent eq control over their individual signals coming in. That would be the ideal. EVen better would be if it did not break the bank to accomplish all of it.
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Hi All-
I pose an interesting thought. I have the Presonus Series III 32 console, 32R rack mixer, and a couple of the New EarMix16s. I am thinking of ways to configure the system having the singer and another musician have the ability to control their individual reverb on the earmix with out using additional Aux mixes to just send reverb to a specific channel on the ear mix. The simple part is having everyone else I the band control their own mix using UC QMix. Any thoughts would be appreciated. |
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