11 posts
Page 1 of 1
Hi,

Does anybody else experience a problem with the SL S III 24R noise gate? When I enable it on the fat channel it and configure specific parameters the sound starts "crackling". It does not matter if the input is analogue or AVB and it also does not matter what the input channel is used. It hardly depends on the gate settings and the input sound frequency. I mostly can hear it on the mid tom and on the FL Studio 808 Tom sample. The popping sound is always there (it does not matter on settings or sound used) but it can be hardly heared with different settings. It also does not matter what firmware is installed. Additionally, I tested this after factory reset so it is also not affected with another fat channel settings. Please see attached video describing the problem.

It sounds to me as like a DSP noise gate problem.

Can somebody do the test for me?

Attachments

[ Play Quicktime file ] noise-gate-problem.MOV.mp4 [ 23.99 MiB | Viewed 1020 times ]

User avatar
by tymorgan1 on Mon Feb 21, 2022 12:18 pm
I have the same issue. Came here looking for help. It’s driving me crazy. I’ve been thinking I was doing something wrong.
User avatar
by golishevsky on Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:37 pm
it looks like a hardware problem
I don’t know, but it seems to me that it’s impossible to do this programmatically with any settings.

Studiolive 24R / Behringer Wing / DiGiCo SD9 / Yamaha CL5 / Studio One 4.6.2 / ADAM A7X / Mac Book Pro 15 2014 / PC 2X XEON2680V3 X99-F8D 128gb DDR4 ECC REG
User avatar
by PAE Seth on Wed Feb 23, 2022 4:02 pm
It should be common knowledge that too fast of an attack will create a click when the gate opens with certain audio sources. Especially true with low frequencies. This is not isolated to PreSonus StudioLive consoles. Perhaps you are just used to more forgiving processors.

StudioLive's have a Key Filter option on both the Gate and the Compressor, which allows you to set a frequency for the Detector to use when it needs to determine if the gate is open or closed or Compressor engaged or not. Similar to other Sidechain options, but instead of a band pass filter range option, it's a narrow Q freq selection. I use the Expander + key filter to get smooth gating. I can have my attack as fast as I want.

With Kick Drum, I've used Key Filter of 100 hz to 1000 hz, depending on mic/bass drum/drummer. Same for toms. Higher frequency tends to focus more on the attack/transient of the sound, while using lower freq helps target the drums mid/bass tones.

Vocals can be more in the 150-800 hz range for Key Filter.

PC #1: Asus Prime Z690-P, i5-12600k 10-core (6+4), 32GB DDR4 3200 MHz, RTX 3060 12GB, ADATA XPG 512GB M.2 NVMe SSD, 2 x 1TB WD Black HDD

PC #2: ASUS X299 Prime Deluxe II, i7-7820X 8c/16t, 16GB 2666 MHz DDR4, GTX 1060 3GB, Samsung 970 EVO NVMe M.2 SSD (Win10 Pro), Samsung 860 EVO SATA SSD (Win11 Pro), OWC Aura 512GB NVMe M.2, 2 x 1TB HDD

Mac: 2010 Mac Pro 6 core 3.33 GHz, 32GB 1333 MHz DDR3, AMD RX 5500 XT 8GB, Alpine Ridge Thunderbolt 3 Card, Aquantia 10Gbps AVB card, Dual eSATA PCIe + Stardom 8xHDD Raid Tower
User avatar
by frantiseknovak on Thu May 05, 2022 1:27 am
Hi all, thanks to all for responses.

I am glad I am not alone and I am not doing anything wrong. Second, it is strange to me that this does not occur on all devices. If you will be testing, please use Hi, Mid, Low tom sound and/or samples of similar frequencies and lengths over AVB or USB. I used 808 mid tom sample from FL studio. Then try various settings of the gate, not just one which is working. I tried various settings of the gate/expander, it simply does not work as expected.

I have to say that I contacted support, provided them bunch of testing videos, testing samples, but the resolution was to resolve the problem with reseller.

From my perspective, noise gate can't be a hardware problem as it is completely implemented in software. If you take a look to the mixer block diagram (https://pae-web.presonusmusic.com/downl ... am_v11.pdf), the only analogue part is basically the connector, preamp and A/D converter. After that, everything is software implementation (what makes sense of course). I am pretty sure that these analogue parts works correctly as the problem also occurs when I send specific samples over AVB network. Because of that, I suppose that this must work wrong on all devices of the same kind, where same DSP and DSP firmware is used.

Additionally, explanation that this problem occurs also on another devices can't satisfy me at all as well as explanation that only specific settings will work. Please note since my first post I have had a chance to work with bunch of another digital mixers (especially concurrent ones) and I didn't notice any noise gate problem whatever settings were used.

I think we should not be slaves of our devices, they should just work as expected out of the box, correct? We should be those who are manipulating settings in order to obtain desired sound. This is not a cheap device. Its 1800 EUR and I don't think that implementation of the noise gate in the software is a hard technical problem so it should be working correctly at this price.

I have also discovered another problems:

a) device time to time does not boot up correctly - No sound in/out

When I boot the device, it sometimes does not boot correctly. I have no idea, if it does not load the project / scene or it simply skips some initialization, but when it is booting, big booms can be hear in headphones / speakers (probably during some preamp / channel / fat channel initialization tasks) and once it boots up I can't see any signal on signal meters (both, input / output) and, of course, I can't hear any sound. I was suspicious that this is due to network / avb ports, but this happens even if these cables are not connected.

When I restart the device (power off/on) it usually works correctly.

b) Mixer freezes after a while, when 64x64 AVB is in use (streaming to/from OSX, directly, without using a MAC Virtual AVB device)

I noticed this when I obtained a new Mac which is able to handle 64x64 without any performance problems. The mixer just freezes after a while and needs to be restarted. By freezing I mean that it freezes completely, can't be controlled over ethernet using UC, sound is not going in and out (meters are dead - but... ye, they can't be alive when UC is not working, masters/auxes are definitely also dead). Device restart helps but not for a long time.

When Mac virtual AVB device is used and just few channels are mapped to mixer using the connection matrix the problem does not occur.



From my perspective, all these problems are software ones and can't be solved by reseller or authorized service.
User avatar
by frantiseknovak on Thu May 05, 2022 1:37 am
PAE Seth wroteIt should be common knowledge that too fast of an attack will create a click when the gate opens with certain audio sources. Especially true with low frequencies. This is not isolated to PreSonus StudioLive consoles. Perhaps you are just used to more forgiving processors.

StudioLive's have a Key Filter option on both the Gate and the Compressor, which allows you to set a frequency for the Detector to use when it needs to determine if the gate is open or closed or Compressor engaged or not. Similar to other Sidechain options, but instead of a band pass filter range option, it's a narrow Q freq selection. I use the Expander + key filter to get smooth gating. I can have my attack as fast as I want.

With Kick Drum, I've used Key Filter of 100 hz to 1000 hz, depending on mic/bass drum/drummer. Same for toms. Higher frequency tends to focus more on the attack/transient of the sound, while using lower freq helps target the drums mid/bass tones.

Vocals can be more in the 150-800 hz range for Key Filter.


Hello, did you hear the sample I have uploaded? Do you think it just click? Its mess and it seems the gate is closing opening all the time. Is it really that big problem to filter a signal using band pass, wait for some threshold level, then wait for attack time, then wait when signal is crossing zero, then open gate, then wait for the event when signal drops down bellow the threshold again, wait for a release time then close the gate when signal is crossing zero again? Even in case the atack/release is implemented as an envelope and the signal is linearly multiplied with the current envelope value, it should not click at all as the signal is amplified linearly to the maximum/zero value. This of course depends on the frequency the gate is working, but I suppose it is the sampling one.
User avatar
by PAE Seth on Fri May 06, 2022 8:49 am
I don't need to hear the sample. I know how the Gate/Expander works on these mixers. I use them, in a professional setting, not just as a tester, nearly every weekend. Also, I've been doing Live Sound for 20 years, started in Analog! This is 100% common.

As I stated, if you don't use a key filter/ sidechain on a Gate/expander, ANY low-mid/low freq signal will cause gates to click, because the attack isn't fast enough to prevent.

It's the same concept as a zero crossing between audio sameples. If you don't crossfade, you get a click, right? Same concept. If the gate isn't fast enough to detect the freq, then it pops upon opening. Key Filter tells the processor what frequency to listen for in order to operate smoother.

It's not an issue, but an operational / usage thing.

PC #1: Asus Prime Z690-P, i5-12600k 10-core (6+4), 32GB DDR4 3200 MHz, RTX 3060 12GB, ADATA XPG 512GB M.2 NVMe SSD, 2 x 1TB WD Black HDD

PC #2: ASUS X299 Prime Deluxe II, i7-7820X 8c/16t, 16GB 2666 MHz DDR4, GTX 1060 3GB, Samsung 970 EVO NVMe M.2 SSD (Win10 Pro), Samsung 860 EVO SATA SSD (Win11 Pro), OWC Aura 512GB NVMe M.2, 2 x 1TB HDD

Mac: 2010 Mac Pro 6 core 3.33 GHz, 32GB 1333 MHz DDR3, AMD RX 5500 XT 8GB, Alpine Ridge Thunderbolt 3 Card, Aquantia 10Gbps AVB card, Dual eSATA PCIe + Stardom 8xHDD Raid Tower
User avatar
by frantiseknovak on Sun May 08, 2022 11:55 pm
Ok, so you didn’t hear the sample but you are still talking about popping when gate opens or closes. But in the sample there is no such thing! Listen to it please, then tell what you think. Maybe I am not professional audio engeneer with 30 years experience but this is not normal.
User avatar
by stevengilmore1 on Sat Jun 11, 2022 2:35 pm
Hello everyone,

I'm having the same problem with my StudioLive III 32S and the NSB 16.8 stagebox! If I turn my gate off then the audio is normal. However, any gate setting turned on in my channels causes a terrible pop and crackle only related to the gate engaging and releasing. I've tried adjusting all parameters. I'm going to bypass my stagebox and see if the physical inputs are doing the same with the same settings.

Also, something to note is that my Cat5e ethercon is currently 325ft which is 25ft past the recommended so I'm going to shave off about 40ft of that cable to see if this fixes the issue. Too long of a cable could be causing artifacts. If I remember then I will update this with my results.

If anyone else finds a fix let me know because this is driving me insane!

Thanks,
User avatar
by frantiseknovak on Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:48 pm
stevengilmore1 wroteHello everyone,

I'm having the same problem with my StudioLive III 32S and the NSB 16.8 stagebox! If I turn my gate off then the audio is normal. However, any gate setting turned on in my channels causes a terrible pop and crackle only related to the gate engaging and releasing. I've tried adjusting all parameters. I'm going to bypass my stagebox and see if the physical inputs are doing the same with the same settings.

Also, something to note is that my Cat5e ethercon is currently 325ft which is 25ft past the recommended so I'm going to shave off about 40ft of that cable to see if this fixes the issue. Too long of a cable could be causing artifacts. If I remember then I will update this with my results.

If anyone else finds a fix let me know because this is driving me insane!

Thanks,


Hi,

glad to see I am not alone, but on other hand, this sucks. I still didn't find a way how to solve it and I am pretty sure I will not find if they will not fix it in the firmware. But I am also afraid they will never fix.

Regarding the network, you are suspicious that the crackling of the gate is caused by the 40ft longer cable? Forget about it. My cable is 5m cat7 long and it is doing the same. Try it even without the networking - setup the stage box, connect something to any analogue input, switch gate on the channel, connect active loudspeakers to master output, try if the problem exists, and if so, unplug everything, except the source connected to the analogue input, active speakers connected to master and power cable. It will be the same.

Regarding artifacts - 340feet should be working without any problems. Once we tried 1000feet and although there was a packet loss it was not something terrible. However, this hardly depends on end point devices, cable quality and noise conditions.But the specification says that the data transfer is guaranteed on the given speed just for given cable length, otherwise can't be guaranteed
User avatar
by frantiseknovak on Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:59 pm
PAE Seth wroteI don't need to hear the sample. I know how the Gate/Expander works on these mixers. I use them, in a professional setting, not just as a tester, nearly every weekend. Also, I've been doing Live Sound for 20 years, started in Analog! This is 100% common.

As I stated, if you don't use a key filter/ sidechain on a Gate/expander, ANY low-mid/low freq signal will cause gates to click, because the attack isn't fast enough to prevent.

It's the same concept as a zero crossing between audio sameples. If you don't crossfade, you get a click, right? Same concept. If the gate isn't fast enough to detect the freq, then it pops upon opening. Key Filter tells the processor what frequency to listen for in order to operate smoother.

It's not an issue, but an operational / usage thing.


Now there are three people reporting the same issue. I was asking you to listen the sample, could you please do it instead of telling us you are professional guy best in the world with biggest experience ever? Then once you will hear, tell us your opinion.Otherwise, please don't even respond.

Since that time I wrote this question I have had a chance to try noise gates on multiple mixers (10times more expensive, but also less expensive), I also tried various software VST gates withing the FL Studio, Studio One or Reason and I didn't hear such poop sound anywhere!

11 posts
Page 1 of 1

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests