Discuss the new PreSonus CS18Ai
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Is it possible to "cut/copy and paste" channels on the CS/RM?
I know I can save the FatChannel stuff but I'd like to simply move some of my channels about.
Hopefully yours
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by Dale Christenson on Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:13 pm
No yet, but it's is being looked at.

Speaking of which, this is a feature request page that has that exact request.
http://answers.presonus.com/live-sound-feature-request

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by allendotson on Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:59 am
Digging up an old thread, but does anyone have any information on this? Has it been implemented or dropped?
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by wahlerstudios on Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:37 am
http://answers.presonus.com/2648/request-move-channels-series-mixers-also-remove-channels-used

This request has got the most votes and as we all know, "the developers pay close attention to those that are voted on the most." :thumbup: At least that is what the standard reply for feature request says. The request was made December 1, 2015 - actually it was transferred from the request list in this forum, so the request is even older than December 2015...

I can imagine that it is possible to arrange the channels in UC Surface in a different way, but one thing will not change: FireWire and USB recording need a 1:1 routing of the channels, which means channel 1 has to stay channel one - and so forth. You should also keep in mind that the RM/RML mixers are able to handle 64 channels. Being able to move all channels would technically probably be a big challenge.

A very good alternative is to use the DCA filters/groups on RM/RML or CS. A DCA "group" can also consist of one single mono or stereo channel, so you can arrange all channels as you like. Another alternative is to plan a set-up different. If there are channels on disposition, simply leave the space for them. It is not uncommon to use e.g. channels 1-6 for drums, 7-12 for DI instruments, 13-18 for miked instruments and 19-24 for vocals. With this system there is no need to "move" channels. If not all channels are used, sinply leave them empty.

SL16 | 32R | 16R | 3* 16M | SW5E

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by ronron3 on Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:43 pm
"the developers pay close attention to those that are voted on the most." ..... last RM and CS updates were august 2016 , so much for close attention....
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by allendotson on Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:47 pm
Thanks @wahlerstudios for finding that thread. I might make one with a more specific implementation.

The way I see it, this is simply a CS thing, not the RM. The CS already has dynamic channel assignments by its very nature. Programming, I cannot see it being difficult at all to say that fader 1 can control any RM channel, instead of only the first of each bank.

What we get out of this is the RMs turn into smart stage boxes. You patch in your XLR, name that channel, then map it to the CS. If you have the situation where you need to move an instrument to the other side of the stage (different patchbay), all you have to do is re-map the CS to the new channel... and it keeps its original fader position!

I'm not even looking at moving the settings on the RM... that should be done manually with copying the channel or loading a saved setting. If this idea were to be implemented, the RM/CS combo would be up there with the D-Live. We're already most of the way there with AVB.

That's just my 2c. :-) We could probably hack something together by routing through Studio One or something, but a native solution would be preferred.

Edit: Here's the question.
http://answers.presonus.com/19996/abili ... -cs-faders
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by wahlerstudios on Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:16 am
An interesting idea and feature request, but you need to keep in mind that the CS can only handle what a RM/RML delivers. The CS has no own processing on board and even the additional AVB functionality (talkback, line inputs, monitor bus) is kind of "stolen" from the RM. I know that RM/RMLs can be used as stageboxes for SLAI boards (I have used this functionality quite some time), but in a CS/RM combination the RM is the MIXER and the CS is the CONTROLLER.

I do not think that PreSonus will or can change this basic technical and functional construction. We have to live with what there is, and I am still happy with it (in its limits, of course). The dLive/ iLive is a different class and a different budget...

SL16 | 32R | 16R | 3* 16M | SW5E

Apple routers | iPads | Alesis iO Docks | Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM10 | LD Systems Curv 500 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Artist 5.1.2 & Pro 3.5.6
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by lishlash on Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:50 am
wahlerstudios wroteA very good alternative is to use the DCA filters/groups on RM/RML or CS. A DCA "group" can also consist of one single mono or stereo channel, so you can arrange all channels as you like.

Yes, but that just leads to the issue of how to reorganize your DCA groups. Once you've created a collection of DCA groups, there doesn't appear to be any way to alter their channel strip order. It seems you have to insert a new DCA group where you want it, assign input channels to it, and delete the old DCA group.

What's even worse: you can't assign a submix to a DCA group, only channels, FX returns, Tape In, and the digital return. So if you've routed all your vocals through a submix, you can access it only in the Mix Masters layer. So much for the notion that you can organize your entire mix with the Group Masters layer.

With an RM16AI, I think it's far more practical to set up buses 9-16 as submixes, and route each input channel through one of your submixes. You can then access all Auxes and Subs simultaneously in the Mix Masters layer. Press a submix's Mix button, and you get access to all input channels in that submix, arranged in the same way as a DCA group. Submixes work exactly as you'd expect, and unlike DCA groups, submixes have full fat-channel processing. Why bother with DCA groups at all?
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by wahlerstudios on Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:51 am
The RM16AI is a special machine, indeed. The best use for its flexmixes 9 to 16 is indeed to use them as subgroups for additional processing and Smaart controlling. But... ;-)

As an owner of a RM32AI you would not want to do this at all, because you most probably need all 16 flexmixes for purposes like inear monitoring and aux subs. If there is some flexmix capacity left, you might want to use one stereo subgroup for additional processing on drums. It all depends on what you want or need to do.

The handling of DCA groups has been improved lately, but it's still no field for spontaneous actions. You need to THINK BEFORE rather than trying to change the order of DCA groups "on the fly". If there is a CS18AI involved, the first layer shows 16 DCA groups, so why not think of a standard approach for 16 DCA groups? In my modified Zero Out scene the (empty) 16 DCA's are labeled like this:

1 Drums
2 Bass
3 Guitar
4 Keys
5 Vocals

6 --
7 --
8 --
9 --
10 --
11 --
12 --
13 FX A Return
14 FX B Return
15 FX C Return
16 FX D Return


This is a typcial band set-up. For a big band or a folk group or an orchestra etc. this will look different, which means that I "rewrite" all DCA groups according to their awaited task in the next job. When all inputs and outputs are prepared and labeled, I fill the DAC groups and everything is stored in the scene for the coming job. It is seldom that I use more than 8 DCA groups for musical events (the FX DCA groups are fix in my scenes). Normally nothing needs to be changed at the job and if there really is one instrument more or one less, it's very easy to change the content of the DCA groups. It is NEVER necessary to change the order of the DCA groups.

I have to admit that working with DCA groups on an iPad is not really fun. There is too little space for the workflow which 16 DCA groups require. DCA groups start "shining" when there is a CS18AI involved with its 16 physical faders. Press the DCA Spill button of "Drums", and you see all channels of the drums including faders and Fat Channels. Make your changes, then press "Group Masters" button again and you're back to the 16 DCA groups again. It makes sense to let your iPad display the meters of all inputs and flexmixes (Display Mode "Meters"), because DCA groups have no visual control. If there still needs some work to be done on the input channels, I would choose the Fat Channel Display Mode and do all changes there, while I continue mixing on the DCA layer of the CS18AI.

For a mix with 16 input channels or less involved I would not use DCA groups at all. When input channels 17 to 32 or even 33 to 64 get involved (layers B to D on a CS18AI), you will enjoy working with DCA groups. They do make mixing easier...!

SL16 | 32R | 16R | 3* 16M | SW5E

Apple routers | iPads | Alesis iO Docks | Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM10 | LD Systems Curv 500 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Artist 5.1.2 & Pro 3.5.6
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by lishlash on Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:59 pm
Thanks, wahlerstudios, that's a good way to prepare a generic empty DCA list in advance. And the CS18AI does allow you to insert a new DCA group in the middle of the list, so additional group types can be inserted where needed.

Were DCA improvements added since CS18AI version 9203 and/or RM version 9244? I'd appreciate a recap as I'm still not decided on whether to update to the recent Beta patches.
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by wahlerstudios on Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:30 pm
You don't need to "insert" a new DCA group - they are already there, even if they are labeled "--". Just rename the group and add the input channels. It's the same procedure on CS18AI and iPad. I forget to mention that my FX DCA groups (13 to 16) are always "filled" with the particular FX return. They never change places and I have no work with them... ;-) I am not using auto generated DCA groups. This function is turned off.

An update to the latest firmwares is not needed to use the improvements for DCA groups.

SL16 | 32R | 16R | 3* 16M | SW5E

Apple routers | iPads | Alesis iO Docks | Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM10 | LD Systems Curv 500 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Artist 5.1.2 & Pro 3.5.6
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by lishlash on Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:58 am
After doing some additional testing, I discovered a handy use for the Group Masters button. To set it up, push the Groups button under the LCD screen. Disable Auto Groups. If any groups appear in the list on the LCD screen, select them one by one, press the Edit button and then press Delete. Once the list is empty, turn off the Groups button.

With this setup, you can press the Group Masters button at any time to blank and disable the channel strip and fader bank controls. (The Group Masters button will glow red, much like a "mute" button for the console controls.) This can be useful when briefly leaving the console unattended during a gig. Deselecting the Group Masters button will activate the "A" layer, or you can select any of the layers directly.

Note, however, that while the Group Masters layer is selected, FOH Master fader and Flex Mix buttons & fader will remain active. Also the last selected input channel or output bus will remain actively selected. (Its name will appear in the upper left corner of the LCD screen.) If any of the Fat Channel encoders are turned, they will affect the selected channel or bus, even while Group Masters is selected. To guard against this pitfall, I recommend selecting the Talkback channel in the Returns layer, before blanking the board with the Group Masters button. The encoders will then remain deactivated until a channel or bus is selected.

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