Proud owner of a 32R here that we're planning on using as a 32 input mobile recording system. I'm just going through the general workings and routing of the console, and I've established that I'll usually be around 200-300 feet away from the artist/client/band. One thing that occurred to me at this point is, how do I monitor the mix inside Pro Tools on my end? In this case, I'll be in a mobile truck...is there a way to get audio from the other end of AVB for monitoring? How would I send a talkback mic back to the client?
I suppose it doesn't matter much that we're using Pro Tools...these issues would still be a question no matter what DAW we were using...
Any help is much appreciated!!
Let me ask the most important question first: Do you own a 32R (USB, AVB 2) or a RM32AI (FireWire, AVB 1)? Answers will be different for each mixer. Only Studio One has a dedicated Remote Control. PreSonus and ProTools are no friends, unfortunately. Recording can also be done via Capture, which can be remote controlled via UC Surface.
Welcome to the Forums and thanks for asking here.
The latest model!! AVB2 / USB
I've been able to get it working and recording with Pro Tools so far, but I'm not opposed to using Studio One for sessions either - for the actual live show recordings, Capture is definitely something I'll use as well.
But I will need to monitor from our mobile truck over AVB, and it would be very handy to use a talkback mic as well...
Thanks for your help!!
I see. Then you have asked your question in the wrong sub-forum, but that's no problem. And yes, for "just" recording Pro Tools is ok. There just is no remote control software like Studio One has ("Studio One Remote" for tablets) or the Capture integration in UC Surface.
Now the "problem" of sending audio to and from your mobile truck. The easiest solution would be to use a second Series III rack mixer or a NSB stage box, which can be connected directly by a single CAT5e/CAT6/CAT6A cable. This would allow to route all audio inputs and outputs as needed. And you can also use "Tape In" (called DigRet/Digital Return in the rack mixers) to control what is getting recorded in a DAW. Capture does not allow this kind of control, because it simply has no return bus. A second rack mixer would also allow to have the recording (USB) located in the mobile truck.
Another option would be to use three cables between stage and truck, two (stereo) for the headphone signals and one for talkback.
Thanks for the help! My apologies for placing this in the wrong forum...it looked correct when I posted? Haha.
OK...I did a show last year in NYC with a JoeCo and Dante, and if I'm not mistaken I simply set up a Pro Tools aggregate device - so I was able to monitor from the 1/8" audio out of the Mac, and the Dante stream recorded into Pro Tools. I'll have to see if that works this time.
I was hoping to not have to buy any more hardware for this system, as I was trying to keep it cost effective and not get into the realm of a JoeCo (which is what we really wanted for the mobile truck).
While I don't like the idea of running more cables at a 300' length, I suppose it could be done. For talkback, there might be an even easier way of transmitting wirelessly...still brainstorming ideas.
I didn't necessarily mean buying more equipment. If somebody can rent you a 16R, you're all good. AVB is not Dante and theoretically you can record via USB and AVB at the same time, but... You need a Mac and a lot of time to get this running. Really, the easiest and best solution is to use two rack mixers or a console and a rack mixer, because the stagebox modes allow you to separate recordings. You can run Capture on stage and Pro Tools in the mobile truck - and you only need 1 Ethernet cable for all this. Talkback and Remote Control (UC Surface, QMix) included...
So I can confirm that using Pro Tools Aggregate Device and using the built in mac output will work so that I can hear the artist/band. I'll also be able to hear them through the mics (a mult on the overheads, compression and EQ works wonders there). Latency is not a concern, since I'm 300' away.
I was thinking a walkie talkie for communication? If I can find one that has a homebase with a line output, then I can patch it into input 32 of the 32r console, and route that into the aux/headphone mixes?
There are two videos about AVB recording/routing which might be interesting for you (don't say afterwards that you were not warned):
AVB Audio with an Apple Computer
Hive AVB Controller for Mac and PC
The combination I am using would be perfect for your job. A 32R as stagebox (or monitor mixer) and a SL 16 as mixer for recording. All you need to add is one Ethernet cable and a router for remote control. A Series II console also allows you simultaneously record 32 + 2 tracks on SD card.
I'll check these out shorlty!!
In the meantime, I've found a solution...
Pro Tools Ultimate has a limitation when using the non HDX versions of software, for 32 IO...that snagged me for a bit. I made a Pro Tools Aggregate Device that has the Mac laptop built in mic on inputs 1/2, and the Mac outputs on outputs 1/2 - then the Studiolive fills in the remaining I/O - only 1-30 can be used, since PT can only handle 32.
Then, I made an aux track inside PT with the input being the Mac laptop mic, feed that to output 30 which can send to the Presonus auxes (artist headphone mixes).
I've also placed some effects on that TB track in Pro Tools (EQ, limiter and Sound Radix Mute-omatic, so that when I hit record or play my TB mic is muted).
I can hear the band through the open mics inside Pro Tools, feed the 1/8" mac out to a Big Knob Passive and to my speakers and all is well.
I tried the Aggregate device with my SSL 2+ usb unit and for the life of me could not get any audio in or out of it...the built in Mac audio hardware is the only thing that would work...
Interesting approach. I ran an audio truck for many years, by the last of which I had transitioned completely to Pro Tools HDX with a D-Control and did everything in the box for the sake of repeatability and being able to offline bounce.
In the early days I also started from the point of keeping the investments as under control as possible to help the balance sheet, but once people began paying for services my calculus changed slightly. I discovered that my peace of mind while working demanded confidence in my setup that the whole shebang wouldn't just fold up and crash while in record.
For that reason, once I made the decision to transition completely to ITB operation I added a few somewhat expensive options that paid great dividends later in my comfort level and blood pressure. The first was to pitch CAT6 for network runs up to and past 300'. Dante gets squirrelly on copper at that distance, and I've no reason to believe AVB would behave any differently. I replaced the long CAT6 with fiber and GBIC modules at the switches (the network sees the fiber run as just a few feet no matter how long it is, so the whole setup is much more reliable). Not sure how fiber could be made to fit into the Presonus ecosystem, but I'm pretty certain it's possible.
Second, I bought an HD|IO interface specifically for the truck for local IO. Obviously you don't need an HD|IO, but having a local I/O box like a 16R there in the truck not only simplifies connecting monitors and talkback, it can also have a significant impact on system latency. And if you're feeding a mix to video, it gives you several options, with no RCA Y-cables to the mini-plug spooge hanging off your laptop.
Finally, a backup record system is a must. Fortunately that is now fairly simple: a second laptop running Capture or something like it hooked up to the same switch your main DAW uses will do perfectly. Sounds like overkill until the first time your main system freezes mid-performance, and then you look like a hero.
Working ITB for live recording is such a huge change from the way we used to do things. The biggest adjustment I had to make in my thinking was to resign myself to the fact that if I hadn't instantiated an EQ or dynamic process or effect before hitting record I couldn't add it while mixing the line cut.
I finally parted ways with Avid last year after several decades and moved completely to Studio One. I'm also a very happy 32R owner. It's a great piece of kit, good luck to you.
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