StudioLive RM32Ai and RM16Ai Mixers & UC Surface with QMix Ai
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This has nearly killed an event yesterday evening. I needed cascaded RM mixers in order to use Smaart on a Mac at FOH, but 10 minutes before the event started I realized that the Master (RM16AI) did not show any input signals, only the Slave (RM32AI). Hence there was no signal going to Main and Mono outputs. As I did have some problems already during soundcheck, there was nothing left to do but to shut everything down, change the setup and use the RM32AI as mixer and an iPad for mixing.

Cascading RM mixers used to work rock solid with a MOTU AVB switch and I my first thought was that this must have to do with the beta firmware, but it has not. When I checked the setup today, I saw immediately that the Master did not show any IP address. I tried several things, but the result was always the same: The PreSonus AVB switch does not show the IP address of the Master, therefore cascading of RM mixers fails, even if both mixers show up UC Surface. Then I replaced the SW5E by my MOTU AVB switch and voila: Everything worked fine again! I even could do cascading and de-cascading several times!

Do not use a PreSonus SW5E AVB switch if you need to cascade RM mixers via dynamic IP addresses. The MOTU AVB switch does not have this problem, even if the beta firmware is involved.

Attachments
SW5E-hookup-diagram.png
This diagram shows something which doesn't work.

SL16 | 32R | 16R | 3* 16M | SW5E

Apple routers | iPads | Alesis iO Docks | Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | LD Systems Curv 500 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Artist 5.1.2 & Pro 3.5.6
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by wahlerstudios on Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:37 am
The problem seems to be deeper, but at least after some more testing I can say that the IP addresses are not the problem. They show up in UC Surface again. Still there is no audio coming out from cascaded rack mixers. This is my setup, if somebody would like to investigate the problem:

RM32AI on stage (Slave), all inputs set to Analog | RM16AI at FOH (Master), all inputs set to Network | Apple router | MOTU AVB switch | iPad

The purpose of this setup is to mix on layers A and B = channels 1 to 32 on the CS18AI and to be able use FireWire and AVB audio at FOH. It is not intended to use more than 32 input channels.

1) start both mixers

2) start UC Control (iPad), select RM16AI to open UC Surface

3) in UC Surface go to settings/Networking, select RM32AI as slave, wait until both mixers are cascaded and show up as 64 channel mixer

In this configuration the RM32AI works as "digital stagebox" and delivers network channels 33 to 64. These channels get internally re-routed to channels 1 to 32 on the RM16AI for the live mix, which is done on layers A and B of the CS18AI. This can also be called "digital split", because all input signals are available twice. You can do the live mix via channels 1 to 32 and monitor mix with totally different processing via channels 33 to 64, for example.

4) get some analog input to channels 1+2 "on stage" (Slave), now you see input simultaneoulsy on channels 33 and 34 (Slave) and channels 1 and 2 (Master)

5) route channels 1 and 2 to Mains and raise the faders, you will see the signals going to Mains; the same works for all auxes. All 64 input channels can be sent to any output

This works perfect with the MOTU AVB switch and I have used this setup for quite a number of events - without any problem! Unfortunately The PreSonus AVB switch fails to deliver this functionality, event though the diagram makes you believe that it does. No input signals can be routed between Master and Slave and no signal gets transported to any output. The setup simply stays silent when the SW5E is involved.

I should add that the PreSonus AVB switch works fine for everything up to 32 channels and one single rack mixer. It simply looks like it can't handle cascading RM mixers via AVB.

SL16 | 32R | 16R | 3* 16M | SW5E

Apple routers | iPads | Alesis iO Docks | Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | LD Systems Curv 500 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Artist 5.1.2 & Pro 3.5.6
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by matthewgorman on Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:24 am
Have you reported this? From what I understand, but could be mistaken, is that AVB works on MAC address, not IP. I don't have multiple mixers to be able to confirm what you are seeing.

Matt

Lenovo ThinkServer TS140 Win 10 64bit, 8GB RAM, Intel Xeon
Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bit, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor

S1Pro V4
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by wahlerstudios on Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:36 am
I reported it in the StudioLive AI Public Beta Forum. The problem seems not to be the IP addresses. They show up for Master and Slave again. The PreSonus AVB switch is obviously not able to cascade two RM mixers. The MOTU AVB switch does the cascading immediatly - in exactly the same setting. 64 input channels and 19 outputs seem to be too much for the SW5E...

SL16 | 32R | 16R | 3* 16M | SW5E

Apple routers | iPads | Alesis iO Docks | Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | LD Systems Curv 500 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Artist 5.1.2 & Pro 3.5.6
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by wahlerstudios on Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:24 pm
The story continues... I checked the setup again today (RM16AI Master, RM32AI Slave, SW5E AVB Switch) and it worked perfectly. Inputs 33+34 can be routed to inputs 1+2 and are heard on all outputs.

I was using short CAT5e cables for the setup, so I decided to get the long cables involved I use live, which first of all is a 20 m cable from stage to FOH. The other cables have lengths of 10, 1.5 and 0.5 meters. After starting everything new and cascading the mixers, UC Surface showed exactly the opposite of what I had seen just before: Channels 1+2 have no signal and no signal is sent to Mains and auxes!

Then I set my MOTU AVB switch up, unplugged all cables from the SE5E and plugged them into the MOTU switch. I needed to restart UC Surface, but you know what I saw then? Everything worked again! Channels 1+2 got their signals and I could see and hear signals at the outputs. I did not de-cascade the mixers nor turned them down. I did this operation with cascaded RM rack mixers!

The photo shows what the SW5E does - no signals in channels 1+2 and Mains. There is definitely something wrong with this machine. The SW5E works fine with 32 channels and a single rack mixer, but it kills cascading.

Attachments
DSCN8383_800.jpg
Nothing happening on input channels 1+2, Mains, Mono and auxes...

SL16 | 32R | 16R | 3* 16M | SW5E

Apple routers | iPads | Alesis iO Docks | Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | LD Systems Curv 500 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Artist 5.1.2 & Pro 3.5.6
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by Scimitar on Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:20 am
Hi Whaler

I was wondering if you have managed to get any further with your SW5E - the reason for my question is that I have an RM32Ai and CS18 and am in the process of considering getting an AVB switch, since I am not happy with the stability of the systems running direct ethernet between the RM and CS, together with the wifi dongles on a separate wireless network.

I am contemplating either the Motu AVB switch, the Presonus SW5e or possibly an Extreme Networks X440

Regards

StudioOne Pro
16.4.2 Classic, FS Mobile, FS Project, Faderports
RM32Ai, RM16Ai, CS18Ai,
328Ai, 315Ai, 18sAi,
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by wahlerstudios on Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:14 am
Yes, things have proceeded. I am not doing any cascading any longer and I want to use the SW5E because of practical reasons, so I have used the SW5E a lot and I am happy with it. It works fine for everything up to 32 inputs and 16 auxes, but it simply fails in cascading RM mixers. If you are not planning to cascade RM mixers, buy the PreSonus AVB switch. It's the best choice. Besides the switch you will need a router for remote control and UCNET (Studio One and Capture via CS18AI).

SL16 | 32R | 16R | 3* 16M | SW5E

Apple routers | iPads | Alesis iO Docks | Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | LD Systems Curv 500 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Artist 5.1.2 & Pro 3.5.6
User avatar
by michaelwalter on Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:57 pm
I seem to be running into this same issue, no audio to Mains on the slave cascaded unit, but already using the MOTU AVB, from all the earlier posts on this kinda thing. I’m still kinda stuck with cascading, but trying lots of different configs and wirings. Also have a Support ticket in, they’ve been working with me for a couple weeks so far, toes still crossed, as needing the additional analog channels badly.

PreSonus Studio One 5.1.2 Professional-64 Bit
Lenovo ThinkServer TS140, Win 10 64Bit, 28GB RAM, (3) SansDisk 480 SSD
Quad Core-3.20 Gigahertz Intel Xeon E3-1225, (1) SandDisk 240 SSD
Texas Instruments 1394 OHCI Compliant Host Controller, Firewire & Ethernet connection
RM32AI, RM16AI, FaderPort, Melodyne Celemony, JBridge, Way too many VSTs to list
MOTU AVB, iPad 4 x2, Netgear NightHawk AC1900 Router, Avid ElevenRack, ADAT Edit
Coleman LS3 Line Switcher, Goldpoint SA1X Stepped Volume Attenuator, pre Monitor switch
ATC SCM25A PROs 3-Way, Alesis Monitor Ones 2-Way, Avantone MixCubes 1-Way

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