StudioLive RM32Ai and RM16Ai Mixers & UC Surface with QMix Ai
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Anyone out there suffering too?

I've a Mac mini in a rack running Sierra connected FW to the RM for live recording. The RM, CS18, an Apple extreme router and for S1 the Mac mini are all connected to the motu switch. All avb audio devices are on the avb side the router is on the Ethernet port on the switch.

Over the last months I've had great trouble getting the FW connection, capture & Smaart working.

I had to completely erase the Mac, install a fresh OS and upgrade all the software. Only then would FW communication between the Mac and the mixer work correctly. To simplify the network connections the Mac had wifi off.

All was fine then recently without any update there was no way to get a mixer backup. The process could run anywhere and indicate that backup is running but create no new backup in the list. Same story on iPad, windows, Mac.

So reloaded firmware. No difference. So took all the kit to a workshop & set about seriously fixing the kit.

As reloading made no difference I Downgraded firmware on RM & then upgraded. Uninstalled all drivers on Mac using presonus utility & reinstalled. Got 1 backup to run successfully. Was able to connect using FW - all ok.

Reboot and no FW connectivity again. I swear I'm going crazy. This is taking hours and hours to do something simple.

All sw & Fw up to date.

Next step will be to use a 2nd partition and reinstall Mac OS then all the sw.

In addition to that, when the platform is working, I've found a few anomalies that really should not be open: i have option Radio button for mutes. Hit mute on uc surface and the mute lights up on the channel / aux on the CS and is active. Hit Channel mute on the CS and it's not reflected on UC surface and is not active.

Using capture to play back, hit mute & it's not reflected on the CS but is active.

Capture & uc surface sometimes fight each other for the mixer, the other can't connect. Run uc surface before capture and you don't ever see the capture button in Uc surface.

No updates in months. I'd just love them to stabilise the platform and leave it alone. When it works, it's great when it doesn't we're on our own.

Thanks guys for your observations & help

Presonus StudioLive 16.4.2, 16.0.2 (x2), Studiolive mobile, Mac mini i7 Quad core, 16GB, MacBook Pro 2012 (1T Ssd & with all the Ports you need) Studio One Professionnal. Mélodine editor, Fader Port, StudioLive RM32-AI, CS18-ai, KRK VTX4 monitors and KRK 10s.
KRK 10 3 monitors. Yamaha O1v, KRK rokit 10 3 monitors. RCF 725-II PA and RCF 325 stage monitors. Turbosound TQ425/455 DP PA.
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by wahlerstudios on Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:49 am
Sorry to hear about your struggle. As you can see in my signature I use about the same equipment and up to now I have seen no problem at all. My experience is that the RM/CS "family" is robust and reliable, even if you use the equipment in multiple combinations and variations. It seems that you are doing nothing wrong, but still something is going totally wrong, so let us try to narrow down the problem.

The easiest way to use RM and CS is to connect a router to the RM mixer and put the PreSonus dongle into the CS USB slot (the RM does not need a dongle). The router has to able to hand out dynamic IP addresses and as RM and CS are automatically searching for dynamic addresses, you should be able to control your RM with the CS18AI wirelessly. It is very helpful to have an iPad running parallel to check, what IP addresses are involved. You see the hardware IP addresses in the CS menu. The router has to boot fully before RM and CS are switched on. CS and iPad should act simultaneously without any lag or just a minimal delay.

Why this test? It will show immediately, if RM and CS work, or not. If they do what they are supposed to do, the problem is on the FireWire side of things, which is the option card, the computer, or the FireWire cable.

If you want to use FireWire for control later, you better stay with UC 1.8 on your computer. All later versions have the famous FireWire lag feature... It is no problem to run UC 2.x on an iPad, because they are based on the same firmware version.
Last edited by wahlerstudios on Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by gbam55 on Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:25 pm
Thank you very much for your help.
I'll try that out tomorrow. I've got the whole rig setup in the mountains & no plans for live on the horizon.

I get the feeling the problem is on the os/presonus software - a system report always shows the rm to be online in FireWire. I even had instances when Studio one could see the mixer on FW but not uc surface.

I'll keep you posted and we see what the test shows and what to test next.
Have you encountered the mute problems, btw ?

Cheers

Presonus StudioLive 16.4.2, 16.0.2 (x2), Studiolive mobile, Mac mini i7 Quad core, 16GB, MacBook Pro 2012 (1T Ssd & with all the Ports you need) Studio One Professionnal. Mélodine editor, Fader Port, StudioLive RM32-AI, CS18-ai, KRK VTX4 monitors and KRK 10s.
KRK 10 3 monitors. Yamaha O1v, KRK rokit 10 3 monitors. RCF 725-II PA and RCF 325 stage monitors. Turbosound TQ425/455 DP PA.
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by sjc193 on Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:43 pm
wahlerstudios wroteIf you want to use FireWire for control later, you better stay with UC 1.8 on your computer. All later versions have the famous FireWire lag feature... It is no problem to run UC 2.x on an iPad, because they are based on the same firmware version.


Also, isn't there a known issue with doing a backup over FireWire on UC 2.x? Like it doesn't work.

I don't have the CS or anything AVB. But I control my mixer with a FW400 PC every time, I use UC 1.8 because of the issues with UC 2.x that have not been fixed yet. (Waiting . . . . . as usual) Latest RM Firmware works with both so you can use UC 1.8 on the computer and the latest UC 2.x on the iPad no problem.

Steve

StudioLive RM32AI
Rackmount Windows 8.1 PC Quad core 8G ram
ASUS RT-N66U Dual Band Router
IPad2, IPad Air 2, Studio One 3 Pro, 1 DBX Driverack 260
2 QSC KW 153's, 2 Turbosound TMS-1's
2 OHM MR450D Subs with Kilomax 18inch drivers
4 EV ZLX-12P's, 1 TurboSound iX15, 2 Yamaha S115V's
1 Crest Pro-Lite 7.5 (7500 watts) amp, 2 Behringer EP4000 amps
10 58/57 mics, 1 SM86, 1 sE8, 1 sE2200, 1 AT2020, 2 AT2021
1 beta52 kick mic, 2 e609, 2 Radial J48 DI's, 1 PRO48 DI
2 4Bar lights, 1 4Play, 1 6Spot, 1 fog machine
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by wahlerstudios on Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:57 pm
The famous no-backup-via-FireWire-syndrom is as famous as the famous FireWire lag. It's one of the everlasting hits of all the famous "Milestone" releases of UC Control. It says for UC 2.3 (the latest and greatest): "AI/RM Mixers: Restore Backup function broken for RM and AI mixers". I don't mind, because I don't use the back-up function anyway, but store my scenes and presets manually on mixer and computer ("local"). :mrgreen:

FireWire works without UC Surface and UC Surface works without FireWire. This can be confusing when you investigate a problem. Therefore you need to keep things simple and evolve your tests step by step. In this case I would recommend to start without FireWire and use the most simple and easiest WiFi connection.

There is no "mute problem" when the machines work as supposed. Any control instance (CS, computer, iPad) immediately reflects a command made anywhere in the network (also on computer) and the functional integration of Capture and Studio One is near to perfect. An AVB network with the addition of FireWire and Ethernet/WiFi means unlimited communication, because all devices talk to each other all the time. Obviously there is something going wrong, but first it must be checked that RM and CS work normal. Under normal circumstances CS and iPad, used as remote devices, act nearly synchronous.

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