StudioLive RM32Ai and RM16Ai Mixers & UC Surface with QMix Ai
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The Series III family is still incomplete. Two stageboxes are missing, as well as the personal monitor mixers, leaving the "stagebox modes" of the rack mixers unclear; the Studio One integration (DAW button) is not there yet and nobody knows how "deep" the integration will be, the use of plugins is also unclear (will there be an AVB Waves Soundgrid Server?)... So, what makes the new so attractive? Does it have all you need? What does the CS/RM system not have?

If I would consider buying new stuff, I would wait until the product is finished and I can evaluate what I have, what I might miss and what the new really makes so much better, that I NEED to buy it. I bought my CS18AI in March 2017 and after quite some live jobs and with a deeper understanding of the complexity and flexibility of the system with its integration of Studio One, I don't see so much distance to what the Series III offers. Already now I can use plugins like the free "Studio Magic Plug-In Suite" at FOH or the new Fat Channel with its "vintage" EQs and compressors. I have used this photo at an other place in the forums, but I think it also fits here. The photo shows my FOH with a CS18AI and a Mac mini connected to the RM16AI at FOH, which serves as "Master" for the system. I use Studio One as "second heart" for my RM mixers and for recording. And I can use all Smaart features at FOH.

But everything depends on what you need. I can understand that using the "latest and greatest" of instruments or audio tools can be more important than analyzing the real needs of your work and arts, also economically. If you would decide to continue the CS/RM road, you definitely need a RML32AI and a AVB switch. Another RML16 makes no sense. If you consider following the Series III road, the combination SL 16 and 32R looks like the most effective. You will need an AVB switch as well. Comparing the amount of money needed for one or the other solution, is one narration, comparing and evaluating the "more" of functionality and flexibility is the other.

Based on what is available today (!) the Series III does not really convince me. Some things seem to be better (especially the ones we hoped for), but this "more" it is definitely not worth the money I would need to spend. The CS/RM system has some advantages on its own like cascading (64 channels or 32x32 network mode), FireWire and the use of WiFi dongles. And Studio One was already meant to work with the AI family. You don't need to buy Series III mixers to enjoy the deep integration of Studio One...

I intend to use this system for three more years and I am sure that I will never dream of Series III. ;-)
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by Karyn on Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:47 am
It is possible to produce a new card, but the CS is not upgradeable so it would be dead.
It would theoretically be possible to upgrade the RM series (with a new card) to be compatible with the Series 3, however, PreSonus kit is made to a price point and the RM series simply doesn't have powerful enough processors to make that work, hence the new Series 3 rack units...

It would be possible (with a new card) to make the RM act as dumb stage boxes for the Series 3, but that would hurt the business model selling the Series 3 rack units.

Karyn

-------------------------------------------------------
SL32ai, RM32ai, SL328AI x2, SL18sAI x2, all Dante.
Studio 192, Digimax FS, Faderport,
Sonar Platinum, Studio One.
http://refer.waves.com/dzDVn
Dante Level2 certified.
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by matthewseymour on Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:32 am
The Presonus decision to go AVB with no dante option kills it all dead for me. What's particularly irksome is the failure to get the RM series up to spec. I'm used to companies promising features that don't arrive until version 2 of the firmware but a few years in, and with the RM units looking increasingly legacy, they've never even been finished. It's appalling.
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by bouledor53 on Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:31 am
I expected from Presonus that they release a compatibility RM with the new series 3 to buy a SL32 III, but that it will not be possible to use our RM like "dumb stage box" is annoying.

And talking about Dante, seriously not conceivable for me at this time.

Plus a numbers of functionalities promised as not really, this really damaging.

I having a CS18AI, and I have sound engineers who do not like working with latency has this controller.
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by wahlerstudios on Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:21 am
Sorry, this is not true. The CS18AI controller shows no latency at all, neither wired, nor wireless. There must be something wrong with your network(ing). If you give us some information about what is part of your system and how everything is connected, we can try to figure out the problem.
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by matthewseymour on Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:33 am
matthewseymour wroteThe Presonus decision to go AVB with no dante option kills it all dead for me. What's particularly irksome is the failure to get the RM series up to spec. I'm used to companies promising features that don't arrive until version 2 of the firmware but a few years in, and with the RM units looking increasingly legacy, they've never even been finished. It's appalling.


Before my first reply to this thread I missed that I'd jumped to page 2.... Oooops.

It's good to hear from Ray about further development of the RM boxes though I won't hold my breath. It remains the case that using AVB is baffling to me. It's just died a death and failing to at least off the option of Dante is just foolish.

I'm happy to be proved wrong about that, but given the first attempt at AVB has hardly gone well, you'd think Presonus would learn.
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by vampirivan on Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:16 pm
So, the rm series was a beta for the serie III. thanks all the buyer for being beta tester buying a product that till now don't have all the promised function claimed at the launch...
bad.
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by wahlerstudios on Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:40 am
Yes, we have done a god job as beta testers, if you will... ;-) But honestly, I don't feel like a beta tester and there is not really much I could think I am missing. I do know what was promised and I remember the "old" visions, but I am working with my RM mixers since years and added a CS controller in March this year, which has made this good-sounding system now "shining" and unbeatable. Series III is not that flexible, not to speak about less channels (maximum 32, not 64). The tight integration of Studio One (DAW button) and the use of plugins is another great feature of the RM/CS system. So, what are you missing...? What is NOT possible with a RM/CS system?
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by ronron3 on Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:45 pm
What is NOT possible with a RM/CS system?

Use rta ?
Uc Surface 2.0 release date was 2/21/17 it is still not usable with 2.5 ( lag )

Quick change of mix settings ?

quote : I having a CS18AI, and I have sound engineers who do not like working with latency has this controller.

I also have latency in the CS ( and unhappy sound engineers), not in sound but in control . Very annoying when you change something in aux or fx and then go back to main mix : first count to 10 then go to main mix , otherwise your changes are not registered to the RM

record to usb , use rta , use other fx than rev / delay and playback music without pc connected ?
insert fx on inputs/outputs ? (even had that on my 01v96.. )
hpf on main out ?
use touchscreen for eq settings ( CS18AI ) ?
Sell it for a reasonable price?

By now everybody in the music business knows it is not a flawless machine and there are better alternatives for less money ( have you seen the a&h sq5 ? )
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by wahlerstudios on Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:14 pm
Use rta ?
RTA/Smaart as well as recording and Studio One processing is FireWire based and needs a computer. Get a second RM mixer and you have all that at FOH.

Uc Surface 2.0 release date was 2/21/17 it is still not usable with 2.5 ( lag )
Stay with UC 1.8 and THERE IS NO LAG. You can use UC 2.x on mobile devices, because everything is based on the same firmware.

Quick change of mix settings?
quote : I having a CS18AI, and I have sound engineers who do not like working with latency has this controller.
I also have latency in the CS ( and unhappy sound engineers), not in sound but in control . Very annoying when you change something in aux or fx and then go back to main mix : first count to 10 then go to main mix , otherwise your changes are not registered to the RM

Sorry, this is pure nonsense. Obviously there is something wrong in your set-up. I can change layers and buses WITHOUT ANY LATENCY, even with two RM mixers cascaded/separated and Studio One involved.

record to usb , use rta , use other fx than rev / delay and playback music without pc connected?
This was never promised or announced. The RM mixers use FireWire and therefore need a computer.

insert fx on inputs/outputs ? (even had that on my 01v96.. ) hpf on main out ? use touchscreen for eq settings ( CS18AI )? Sell it for a reasonable price?
This was also never promised, but with a UC Surface on a computer and Studio One as "second heart" of the RM system (the DAW button) there is not really much to miss any more.

By now everybody in the music business knows it is not a flawless machine and there are better alternatives for less money ( have you seen the a&h sq5 ? )
It's not fair to compare a brand new mixer with the RM mixers.

Attachments
DSCN7404_800.jpg
The photo shows Studio One for recording, additional processing and replacing RM's FX. UC Surface and Smaart are also involved. I use UC Surface for anything I need to do in the Fat Channels.
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by ronron3 on Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:52 am
"It's not fair to compare a brand new mixer with the RM mixers."

I am sorry. I should have known that I can not compare a new mixer with a 2 year old mixer ( at least my CS is , I understand your CS is 6 months old ? )
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by wahlerstudios on Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:30 am
According to the press releases the Firewire based RM mixers were introduced Sept 1, 2014 and the CS on Apr 15, 2015. The whole series of mixers with Firewire as core technology started late 2008 with the introduction of the StudioLive 16.4.2, which was a revolutionary product at its time. It is no question that PreSonus has been sticking to Firewire much too long. The Audio industry went into another direction AND also computers changed, especially PCs. Therefore it makes more sense to compare the Series III mixers with the new SQ. It is time for new "gamechangers"...! ;-)

May I ask what that latency problem is, that you are having? I can't see that at all, even not when I activate DAW mode during a live mix. I am using dynamic IP addresses and a AVB switch. WiFi is used only for remote control (UC Surface and Studio One).

Yes, I bought my CS18AI in March and I am very happy that I decided to take this road. With the tight integration of Studio One and plugins there is nothing I could think I would miss. Already replacing the four FX of the RM mixers by original Studio One effects (reverb, delay, chorus, flanger) makes mixing a pleasure. The sound of the RM mixers has always been very good and the flexibility of the RM/CS system is simply outstanding.
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by ronron3 on Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:27 am
I brought my gear home and installed it on the kitchen table , because I started to doubt myself about the latency matter . My setup : RM - motu switch - CS (dynamic ip from wifi router ) .

Things occur when you move some faders in main , then go to mix and move a fader while looking at UC on tablet : sometimes the RM doesn't even respond to the CS fader move .Wait a few seconds and touch the fader : only now the fader in UC jumps to the position..

I don't use the CS a lot , most of the time I'm using RM with a windows ( 8" and 10" ) or android tablet ( 7" , kinda small , used as a spare mixer and break music player) . Apart from the missing rta no problems there
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by wahlerstudios on Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:17 pm
No dongle involved? If you are using a dongle, please remove it...! A direct connection of CS and RM to the MOTU AVB switch is all you need. Do you see corresponding (the same type of) IP addresses for CS and RM in UC Surface?
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by mwatzal on Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:55 pm
The delay at the CS18 is true .... but it is not „count to 10...“
It is right , if you change fast between the mixes, the Faderchange not be done.
For example. I go from the Main Mix to an Aux mix, slide up a Fader and go back the Main Mix ..... nothing happend... go back to the Aux Mix - The Fader is down. The same with FX Mixes.
Setup: RM32 , CS18, Motu-Switch, Wifi Router only for iPad.
All Devices with Dynamic Adress. RM32 and CS18 without Wifi-Dongle - connected with CAT6 Cable.
In Summer I make an OpenAir with 4 Bands and one Soundengineer works very quickly. He show me this problem with the CS18.
The Problem are the first seconds when you go into another Mix. In these first seconds the RM do not registerd what the CS18 do.

I hope this will be fixed by Presonus.

Michael
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by ronron3 on Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:33 pm
no dongle involved...
I used to use the dongle in the RM for control (connected to the wifi router ) and wired connection for the CS , sometimes even a dongle in the CS for wireless mixing and it worked ok ( but not "rock solid" ) for a long time , Even had a wifi expander in my CS flightcase to get 5 ghz capabilities

But I recently bought the motu switch so all dongles are gone
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by wahlerstudios on Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:33 pm
Well, I don't know what to say... Have I bought a secret turbo version of the CS18AI? I see no lag and all faders change and move immediately, also in simultaneous use of CS, computer and iPad on the same layer. I can switch between Main mix, all Aux and FX mixes, Returns, Mix Masters, Group Masters and the DAW layers and there is NOTHING slow or down or not functioning or lagging. What am I doing wrong...?

Good to hear that we do not have a "dongle problem", but I want to make sure that the AVB network is set-up correctly. The heart of an AVB network is an AVB switch, which separates/devides audio and network signals. Up to now there has only the MOTU AVB switch available, which is kind of self-explanatory:

Ports 1 to 5: direct/cable connections to CS and RM(s),
Port E (also namend L): direct/cable connection to the router.

My Apple router supplys dynamic IP addresses like 10.0.1.5 and it is working dual band. I never had a problem with connectivity, even though my network is not hidden. I can easily walk 30 and more meters away and still have full remote control. It is important to let the router boot fully BEFORE any other device like RM or CS is powered on. AVB switch and router can boot at the same time.

What I have seen some times are connection problems of CAT5e cables. I need to move the connector al little bit until the connection is solid again. Doesn't happen often, but has happened, especially with Neutrik sockets used as extensions. It may also be helpful to swap cables. You can use any kind of CAT5e cable (even very cheap ones) and I suppose it's the same with CAT6 cables.

It might be worth to check these basic things. Also firmware versions are important. For RM it is 1.0.9244 and for CS it is 1.0.9203.
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by Revengineer on Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:25 pm
We've sen Presonus drop the ball on product lifecycle support before, paralleling the persistent inadequacies of the industry leader.

That same industry leader I rejected and abandoned.

Presonus' leadership would do well to rethink their commitment. Like any other good production, once you make decision you have to commit. If you constantly try to appease all audiences you end up indecisive and weak.

A place I have no use for.

Computers: 27" iMac 3.2GHz Core i5, 8 GB RAM, Macbook Pro, iPad, iPhone
Software: Studio One Pro v3.2, Reason 6, PT 9, Final Cut X Pro, BFD3, NI Komplete, Focusrite Scarlett suite, Red 2 and 3
Control Surfaces: Mackie MCU Pro, Behringer BCR2000, Faderport, mouse, and track pad
I/O: Presonus SL16.4.2AI, Focusrite Clarett 8 Pre X, Focusrite Sapphire Pro 40, M-audio Profire 2626
Monitoring: Yamaha HS50M w/HS8S, Auratone 5Cs run through an ATI AT602 power amp, Mackie Big Knob, Presonus HP4
Outboard: too many to list, not enough to make me content
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by edwardralph on Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:06 pm
This is exactly the kind of approach that killed off all the microcomputer companies in the 80's. With Behringer seemingly storming the market, companies like Presonus really need to be solid and stable with their direction and with what they offer.

Its a simple case of market economics, its very easy to loose customers. and very very difficult to win them back. Behringer have managed it. I have the feeling that Presonus may not unless they stick by their kit and advertised specifications.
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by moshenuri on Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:50 pm
Digitally split...very important :idea:

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