StudioLive RM32Ai and RM16Ai Mixers & UC Surface with QMix Ai
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Unfortunetly I no longer have access to the fleet of presonus mixers as I used to and my old legacy sl24 is of no use in this case :D .

I was just suprised to learn that presonus disabled this feature and I have currently no way to verify it.

Oh, well... Back to playing around with my x32 setup with native sd-card recording, dante and soundgrid server are talking to each other where aes50 and dante is the key components making it all work :P . Maybe avb can pull this off in the future, or maybe not.

Karyn wroteHave you tried it?

Studio One Pro v5, Notion 6, Nuendo 11, BitWig v3, Reaper v4, Ableton Live 8 Suite, iMac late 2015, Behringer Wing/x32-BigBoy/x32-rack all with Dante/aes67 and s16/sd16 stageboxes, Flow8, Waves x-wsg with SoundGrid server, Behringer X-Touch, X-Touch ONE, M-Air mr18, X-Air xr18, DP48, Hub4 and p16 monitor systems, TurboSound iQ-speakers, Motör 61, BCR-2000, FirePod 10, Apogee Ensemble, Alesis HD24, NI Komplete 12 Ultimate Collectors, Halion 6, True Temperament Frets on basses and guitars, Katana-100, DT-50, JSX, JCM800, Korg Kronos, Roland vk-7, Behringer Deepmind 12, Behringer Neutron
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by jashinrodriguez on Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:40 am
AVB is soooo dead...
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by wahlerstudios on Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:50 am
Thanks again, Karyn, for taking the time to give us a look into the Dante world. I am sure that a lot of readers appreciate your competent explanations and comments. Discussions like this make have always made the PreSonus forum special!

I have (finally...) learned that Dante works without FireWire/Thunderbolt, which makes the integration of Studio One more flexible. For me FireWire still is a word with a positive value. In many years FireWire has always been a rock solid and fast "backbone" for recording and controlling, so I don't feel the need to get rid of it. Also Smaart in its stripped-down version has never been a problem to me. What I need is the "visual connectivity" of RTA/Spectra and all parametric and graphic equalizers. This has helped me in many difficult situations. I do have an separate RTA on iPad, but I don't use it because doesn't fit to my workflow.

After six months of using a CS controller and two RM mixers in varying set-ups, I never want to get back to consoles any more. I now see that utmost flexibility is a keyword for my jobs and workflow. One day it's a single microphone for a speech, the second day a Big Band needs sound reinforcement and the third day a Jazz combo or a choir is waiting... For many of my jobs a RM/router and wireless control via iPad or CS18AI (or both simultaneously) fits perfect. It works from 1 to 32 input channels and 1 to 16 auxes and I don't need to carry any heavy or oversized console with me. Adding a AVB switch to this system makes connectivity "wired", I can use the cascading features (64 channels) and I have audio at FOH (music, talkback). And if I then decide to take a computer with me, I have all FireWire features (Studio One/Capture/Smaart) at FOH...

FireWire is definitely no concept for the future, but this is not the place to discuss future scenarios here. SD-card or USB recording are no themes for the AI family of SL consoles, RM rack mixers and CS controller. Now after getting to know more about Dante and based on some years experience with AVB/FireWire, I have the impression that the real "bottleneck" we are talking about are the RM mixers itself with their fixed routing and 2 reverbs/2 delays. It is Dante and AVB that add to our machines, what they are missing.

When I started to look at the integration of Studio One with the CS controller, I entered a new "world" of sound processing. Now I can use plugins in all input channels of my RM mixers, I can replace the four RM effects by Studio One effects and I can add processing to one stereo bus (aux or sub) for tasks like parallel compression or "shaping" drums. Or the bus can be used as a solo bus for visual control (RTA of ProEQ), as well as any input channel can have its individual RTA. So, what would I need more...?

My two RM mixers have got a new "heart", and it didn't cost me anything. I simply use what is "in the (Presonus) box". I can integrate Studio One plugins (like the new tools of Series III) into my mix - or any plugin I might want to use. The CS18AI has encoders, buttons and faders for everything. And DCA groups on faders really are cherry on the cake... ;-)
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by Karyn on Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:56 am
Sounds like you use your system for exactly the same jobs as I do. Everything from single mic to Big Band with a touch of theatre in there somewhere just to keep things interesting.

I've never had issue with FireWire or AVB for what it does, only with what it doesn't do... I used to use FW all the time, both in the studio setup and with smaller live rigs, but the limitation of a single computer means it's no longer enough for my needs.

Karyn

-------------------------------------------------------
SL32ai, RM32ai, SL328AI x2, SL18sAI x2, all Dante.
Studio 192, Digimax FS, Faderport,
Sonar Platinum, Studio One.
http://refer.waves.com/dzDVn
Dante Level2 certified.
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by allendotson on Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:48 am
Alright, coming full-circle here. It seems that Dante could do the sort of routing for which I'm looking. That requires a computer to handle all the routing, no problem; an upgrade to the entire system (computer, RMs) to add Dante. The benefits would definitely
be worth the price.

However, in an existing AVB setup, I'm aware that they are continuously bi-directional. Because of that, I'm assuming that each RM would be streaming its channels over the AVB network. What I cannot test is if it is required for the two RMs to be cascaded to access these via network input.

If someone could test, I currently only have one RML32. Without cascading, run a signal on an RM channel. On the second RM, switch the same channel to network input. Is the signal mirrored on the second RM? That's the test to see if AVB will behave how I hope. If it fails, Dante will be the solution for this.

Thanks!
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by wahlerstudios on Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:48 pm
My second RM is on tour at the moment, so it will take some days until I can check things (again). What I have seen in my first days with two RM mixers and AVB is indeed a 1:1 split of channels, but AFTER de-cascading, not before. If I remember it right both RM mixers continued to share 32 input signals, but aux and main outputs got seperated.

I will check all this again, especially how things look without cascading. This is my original post about the subject:

1:1 routing of two RM mixers (Feb. 2, 2017)
https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?f=222&t=23669
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by wahlerstudios on Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:12 pm
I can answer your question now: Yes, in an AVB setup all channels of two RM32AI mixers can be used bi-directional. Gains are set where the "analog" input is located in the network, the "network" input of the other mixer shares the preamp settings. It doesn't matter which mixer feeds the physical inputs. All this works without cascading, but as a consequence output signals (Mains, Mono, Auxes) are not shared, each mixer feeds its own outputs. You don't need a computer or tablet to set up an AVB network. Just connect the mixers, the controller and the router to the AVB switch. If you are using dynamic IP addresses, all devices will automatically join the network.

I don't think that splitting input channels could work with four (2x2) cascaded RM mixers. At least I have never heard about the possibility of cascading or connecting two AVB networks.

As you are thinking of separate processing for FOH and monitor mix, it might be an idea to have two CS18AI involved in this setup. One of them can be connected to the AVB network, which allows the use of the AVB audio features (cue mix, talkback). The other one needs to be control only (WiFi dongle). The AVB audio features are perfect for the CS18AI used as monitor mixer.

Any CS18AI can control any RM mixer in the AVB network. The UCNET button opens the selection menu. If you are using only one CS18AI, you can easily switch between FOH mix and monitor mix. If the input gains need to be adjusted on the monitor rack mixer, also used as stagebox, it can be done at FOH.
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by wahlerstudios on Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:29 pm
Here is a second part... After testing the setup again today, I saw that - freshly started - the mixers do need a short cascading to get the input channels sorted. After de-cascading it works as described. I always use an iPad for cascading mixers; a computer is not needed.

You were asking about FireWire functionality in this setup. FireWire works on BOTH mixers independently, so I guess it is possible to use computers at FOH and on stage for additional processing and recording. On both mixers you can insert plug-ins on all 32 input channels, replace the four FX and add mono and stereo sends for additional processing. All buses are routed back to the RM mixers via the Digital Return channel.

I own two RM mixers and several computers, but only one computer with FireWire, so I can not check the two mixers/two computers setup. I don't see any reason why it should not work.
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by allendotson on Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:33 pm
Thank you so much for your investigation into this. It looks like what you are describing is a bug... a very helpful bug. Having the ability to digitally split the signal like this is a win for FOH and MON engineers.

With the two CS18s; that was my plan. I didn't even think about the AVB for the MON. That's a great choice for the engineer to be able to hear exactly what each performer is getting in their mix. I like it!

I'm not real hopeful for FireWire on the "networked" mixer. Since we don't have dedicated insert points, it requires the channel input to be switched to FireWire for doing the insert. When FireWire is chosen, if I'm not mistaken, it always uses the analog inputs from that mixer. So, there is probably no way to do insert effects at this time. I hope I'm wrong about this.

Again, thank you! I will be investing in a MOTU switch. I know that they have an AVB routing screen... unsure if the Presonus switch will have that feature.
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by Karyn on Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:32 am
Whooaa, slow down..

The Motu switch may well have routing options, but the RM channel routing is fixed.

Karyn

-------------------------------------------------------
SL32ai, RM32ai, SL328AI x2, SL18sAI x2, all Dante.
Studio 192, Digimax FS, Faderport,
Sonar Platinum, Studio One.
http://refer.waves.com/dzDVn
Dante Level2 certified.
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by allendotson on Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:40 am
Karyn, I've got to get one anyway. In order to have a properly functional system, I need to have the avb switch. Thanks though :-)

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