StudioLive RM32Ai and RM16Ai Mixers & UC Surface with QMix Ai
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Finally PreSonus presents an own AVB switch: https://www.presonus.com/products/SW5E. I especially like the back side of it... ;-)
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by Karyn on Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:07 pm
LOL

"Rack mountable (screws to a rack tray)"

Also wall mountable... ceiling mountable... Floor mountable... (Gaffer tape extra)


So now we know why its taking so long to get the RM/AI series updated (working as first advertised..) Midi ports?? Dante stage box mode??

Come on PreSonus. Stop producing new products that everyone already has (Motu AVB switch) and FINISH THE ONES YOU SOLD US.

Karyn

-------------------------------------------------------
SL32ai, RM32ai, SL328AI x2, SL18sAI x2, all Dante.
Studio 192, Digimax FS, Faderport,
Sonar Platinum, Studio One.
http://refer.waves.com/dzDVn
Dante Level2 certified.
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by lancelyons on Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:36 pm
I wonder, might this unit be able to direct the AVB stream from the RM32a1 to a PC for recording purposes, or position the company to be able to meet the original 'record via AVB' promise, in the near future?

CS18ai, RM32ai+ MOTU AVB switch, MOTU 1248 AVB
DAWs - Sonar Platinum, Studio One
PC - home built
WIN 10
Intel i7- 6700K
Gigabyte Z170 UD5
Thunderbolt, USB C, Ethernet AVB ready, Firewire 400 and 800
32 gig Corsair DDR4
2 HD, 1 TB each
27" PLANAR touch screen
Buncha WAVES V9.2 64bit
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by Karyn on Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:38 am
lancelyons wroteI wonder, might this unit be able to direct the AVB stream from the RM32a1 to a PC for recording purposes, or position the company to be able to meet the original 'record via AVB' promise, in the near future?

No.

There is a fundamental flaw in the AI AVB implementation (the clocking) that means it cannot talk to anything else and never will do.

Karyn

-------------------------------------------------------
SL32ai, RM32ai, SL328AI x2, SL18sAI x2, all Dante.
Studio 192, Digimax FS, Faderport,
Sonar Platinum, Studio One.
http://refer.waves.com/dzDVn
Dante Level2 certified.
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by wahlerstudios on Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:44 am
Today the Motu AVB Switch costs 429 Euro in Germany and I still don't know, what it is that makes this box so expensive. I bought mine in August 2015 for 315 Euro - a remarkable sum of 114 Euro less! I have to say that it works flawlessly, but the "wall wart power supply" has annoyed me a million times. Usually I refuse to buy any equipment with an external power supply, but because there was no alternative I was forced to buy this over-priced piece of crap. For a "professional" price I want a professional solution, therefore I am glad that PreSonus does that better now and FINALLY plays an active role again in this game.

I haven't opened the Motu box yet to have a look at its inside, but I would not expect to see anything worth 429 Euro or even 315 Euro. Hopefully PreSonus will sell the SW5E at a reasonable price, because the AVB switch is the "heart" of an AVB network, which is valid for AVB I and AVB II. The description says that it will also be used for the Series III mixers, so I think the focus is NOT that PreSonus felt the need to add a second AVB switch to the market, but keep things in control for the new "ecosystem". That the switch can be used for the AI family of products seems to be nothing more than a side effect. Hopefully this will give some motivation to the AI oldies. A "good" price makes the AVB features more interesting (and available).

Does anybody need an Motu AVB switch? I will have one for sale soon... ;-)
Last edited by wahlerstudios on Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by lancelyons on Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:57 am
Karyn,

Where did you find that it was a clocking issue? I remember that Ray said the supplier had dropped support for a product found inside the tool set. I don't believe we learned if it was hardware, firmware, software driver or a combination of some or all of these. I got the feeling that it was a large problem though.

The reason I wondered is because the synchronization seems to be working between my RM32ai's and the CS18ai well enough to - cascade mixers via AVB and send audio from the CS18ai to the RM32ai's. A MOTU AVB switch is required to allow the devices to stream audio via AVB which seems to be a traffic cop so to speak. I believe this simple working stream shows where there might be stability in the clock. Since Presonus knows what is missing, might not they be able to interpret the data stream via a circuit path that includes a low cost unix processor fast enough to add (or remove bits) so that the AVB stream is corrected?

I could see, if there is time sensitive control information required to interrupt the sending unit, and manage it, that this might be difficult to surmount. But it seems to me, that this basic requirement at least is being met with the MOTU AVB switch, CS18ai and RM32ai units.

I guess I am more of an optimist than a pesamist or maybe even a realist. Certainly not knowledgeable enough to know the mountain that Ray and team are trying to climb.

Aside from this, what piques my interest is sending power through the CAT connection. Could it be that there are low cost peripheral devices coming in the future, like headphone mix devices, or talk back devices?

Best Regards,

LL

CS18ai, RM32ai+ MOTU AVB switch, MOTU 1248 AVB
DAWs - Sonar Platinum, Studio One
PC - home built
WIN 10
Intel i7- 6700K
Gigabyte Z170 UD5
Thunderbolt, USB C, Ethernet AVB ready, Firewire 400 and 800
32 gig Corsair DDR4
2 HD, 1 TB each
27" PLANAR touch screen
Buncha WAVES V9.2 64bit
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by matthewgorman on Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:01 am
Karyn wrote
lancelyons wroteI wonder, might this unit be able to direct the AVB stream from the RM32a1 to a PC for recording purposes, or position the company to be able to meet the original 'record via AVB' promise, in the near future?

No.

There is a fundamental flaw in the AI AVB implementation (the clocking) that means it cannot talk to anything else and never will do.


PC solutions for avb are far behind MAC. Until windows comes up with OS support for AVB as Apple did, there are not many economic solutions. That is just for recording, not avb infrastructure for mixers and stageboxes.

FYI, Sweetwater selling these for $399 (USD)

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SW5E

Matt

Lenovo ThinkServer TS140 Win 10 64bit, 8GB RAM, Intel Xeon
Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bit, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor

S1Pro V5
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by lancelyons on Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:50 pm
Mathew,

Its good to see from you.

In the spirit of finding out if the path for this new device includes a method in the works to record AVB....

I am willing to buy a Mac, and I am willing to buy an ECHO AVB pc card solution. I am not worried about the computer side of the house. The vision is and always has been two fold...

To use the CS18ai and RM32ai units in a live situation, where we can use talkback and background music from the CS18ai to the stage box.

AND

To use the RM32ai units in various spots in the house using the houses CAT 5/6 wiring, with the CS18ai located in the home studio area to record with. I have been blessed with wonderful 'drum tracking' great room, and two other rooms in the house for guitars and vocals. They just sound great, so putting an RM in each room just makes sense for both audio tracking and talent monitoring.

Whatever hardware is needed on the PC side is fine. Dante is an option, but I believe its implementation at this time, does not handle 96k, nor FOH talkback\background music. I can also get another RM16 but thats 1000 dollars, and while 800 is steep on ECHO side, its less and theres less hardware to rely on and setup. I am fine also with getting an Apple laptop for the AVB implementation.

That should take care of the position you are taking, am I correct?

Take care,

LL

CS18ai, RM32ai+ MOTU AVB switch, MOTU 1248 AVB
DAWs - Sonar Platinum, Studio One
PC - home built
WIN 10
Intel i7- 6700K
Gigabyte Z170 UD5
Thunderbolt, USB C, Ethernet AVB ready, Firewire 400 and 800
32 gig Corsair DDR4
2 HD, 1 TB each
27" PLANAR touch screen
Buncha WAVES V9.2 64bit
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by wahlerstudios on Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:55 pm
I suppose you know that none of the PreSonus network solutions allow more than 48 kHz; 96 kHz is only possible with FireWire (SLAI and RMAI mixers). Be aware that you lose half of the functionality of your mixer and all networking then. The Series III mixers are generally limited to 48 kHz and have no Dante at all.

http://www.ratsoundsales.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=soundtools-catsnake

May I ask if you seen this "stagebox"? It's based on CAT 5/5e/6 cables and can be used as splitter and/or extension. You can use the 4 lines in any configuration. Lines 3+4 make be used by music/talkback/intercom, while lines 1+2 can be used for recording. As you are probably not recording guitars and vocals simultaneously, you can have 2 microphone channels available permanently in both rooms in this configuration.

Use one RM32AI in the drum room and the other one in your studio/next to the CS18AI, because you need the FireWire connection (recording, Smaart, DAW integration). Cascade the mixers over AVB (drum room = slave, studio = master) and enjoy 64 channels/tracks. You will have 32 input channels in you drum room and 32 more input channels in your studio. Both rooms share the 16 aux mixes, which can be extended to the guitar and vocal room through "CAT Snake". One single AVB connection can be up to 100 meters long. By the way - there is also a "CAT rack stagebox" available with 12 XLR channels, using 3 CAT cables...

For the readers in Europe this might be an interesting link: http://www.cat-core.de/en.
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by Karyn on Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:27 pm
lancelyons wroteKaryn,

Where did you find that it was a clocking issue? I remember that Ray said the supplier had dropped support for a product found inside the tool set. I don't believe we learned if it was hardware, firmware, software driver or a combination of some or all of these. I got the feeling that it was a large problem though. .........
LL

It was posted (I believe) by Rick.

Put simply, I've been saying for years that there are two types of standard. One that everyone uses and one that is enforced... Dante is "standard" because everyone uses it. AVB is a "paper standard", i.e.. a list of specifications.

The company that developed the AVB cards for the AI series did so before the AVB "standard" was fully ratified. Without going into deep technical details, there are various methods of syncing time clocks over networks and when the current AVB standard was published it specified a different clocking scheme to that used by PreSonus (or at least their 3rd party developer).

The 3rd party developer no longer exists and the source code is not available. So the AI series works with AI series and nothing else.

Karyn

-------------------------------------------------------
SL32ai, RM32ai, SL328AI x2, SL18sAI x2, all Dante.
Studio 192, Digimax FS, Faderport,
Sonar Platinum, Studio One.
http://refer.waves.com/dzDVn
Dante Level2 certified.
User avatar
by lancelyons on Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:07 pm
Thank you both Wahlerstudios and Karyn. I appreciate the expert knowledge, tips, nifty other products and insights, along with the time that you have shared to provide them.

While I have the MOTU unit, The AVB unit here does interest me, However, as you could tell, I was digging to exhaust any avenues of possibility for this product to help 'answer the call' with delivery of avb recording inside the RMai product family. I do so want a WIN for both Presonus and their customers.

Take care,

LL

CS18ai, RM32ai+ MOTU AVB switch, MOTU 1248 AVB
DAWs - Sonar Platinum, Studio One
PC - home built
WIN 10
Intel i7- 6700K
Gigabyte Z170 UD5
Thunderbolt, USB C, Ethernet AVB ready, Firewire 400 and 800
32 gig Corsair DDR4
2 HD, 1 TB each
27" PLANAR touch screen
Buncha WAVES V9.2 64bit
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by ronron3 on Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:17 am
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SW5E

399,95 vs. 395,00 for the motu switch ...
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by matthewgorman on Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:13 am
ronron3 wrotehttps://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SW5E

399,95 vs. 395,00 for the motu switch ...


That 4.95 gets you power over ethernet, which the motu does not have.

Matt

Lenovo ThinkServer TS140 Win 10 64bit, 8GB RAM, Intel Xeon
Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bit, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor

S1Pro V5
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by wahlerstudios on Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:14 pm
We are here in the RM part of the forum, so may I ask what kind of PoE devices the AI family will have the privilege to use? Will we see personal monitor mixers, digital stageboxes, AVB Multirack, AVB recording...? Is Christmas coming...? :+1

To me the "internal power supply" and the Ethercon connectors make it worth to invest in the PreSonus AVB switch. I want to get rid of the lousy :thumbdown: Motu wall wart.
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by matthewgorman on Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:33 pm
To me the "internal power supply" and the Ethercon connectors make it worth to invest in the PreSonus AVB switch. I want to get rid of the lousy :thumbdown: Motu wall wart.


Well then you can spend your 4.95 on the internal power supply and Ethercon connectors.Win/Win

Act now, and you will get FREE power over ethernet. If you decide to return the switch, you can keep the power over ethernet as our gift.

I know its a crazy thought, but some folks reading may have more than 1 mixer?

Matt

Lenovo ThinkServer TS140 Win 10 64bit, 8GB RAM, Intel Xeon
Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bit, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor

S1Pro V5
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by wahlerstudios on Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:28 am
Realistically the SW5E might be available here in Europe by middle or end of November, so all WE can do is WAIT and WATCH instead of ACT. We are anyway not used to pre-orders. If a product can't be delivered, there is nothing to buy. It will be interesting to see how the price will be "adjusted" here. The Motu AVB switch today is 419 Euro, which is 10 Euro less than last week. The equivalent US price of today is 429 USD (http://www.thomannmusic.com).

I don't think my two RM mixers and the CS controller will benefit from PoE. They seem not to be constructed to use this feature. But it is common to supply power over Ethernet for personal monitor mixers, digital stageboxes, switches and other "small" devices. PreSonus is very late to join the market with this kind of products, but once the new ecosystem is complete, it will make the Series III mixers present their whole potential.

For me the Motu AVB switch has been a rock solid product and it really is the "heart" of my AVB network, which I am using in different configurations in live and studio situations. I really need a better solution for the power supply. Hopefully the SW5E will be as reliable as the Motu AVB switch.

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