StudioLive RM32Ai and RM16Ai Mixers & UC Surface with QMix Ai
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I use a lot of Waves plugins in post prod with Pro Tools on recordings made using Capture (from live broadcast sessions). I'd quite like to use those familiar plugins live as well as inserts/sends on the RM32. Read an article on Waves website that talked about running Multirack on a Mac or PC via the Firewire port on the RM.

BUT, I currently use the firewire to record to Capture. Assume I'm a bit stuffed with this unless anyone out there knows of a better way.

Anyone else using Multirack successfully in a live setup?

CS18, RM32, RM32, HP4, ERIS 5, MOTU AVB SWITCH
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by Friedhelm on Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:26 am
waves multirack can work together with capture over firewire without problems. i asked the waves support exact the same question a few weeks ago. a trial of multirack confirmed this working very smooth. right now multirack is too expensive for me, i'll wait until an offer comes on the waves side...
until this i use studio one to run plugins and record at the same time...also works good.

SL1602
RM16AI
Nowsonic stage router
StudioOne pro2
mac book pro 2009
ipad4
db technologies DVX 10(2x), DVX8(4x)
db technologies S08(2x)

https://www.waves.com/r/bqvxon
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by wahlerstudios on Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:13 pm
Wait... - it's not that easy. Besides a direct FireWire connection (mixer <-> computer) there is AVB or Dante as network alternatives and it has to decided, what the input per channel is: Mic/Line (preamp) or FireWire/Network. The RM mixers offer no digital insert or routing and AVB can only make dedicated devices talk to each other, so Dante seems to be the only route to follow.

The question is how to add external processing in a live situation with two RM32AI involved and a CS18AI controller. To a certain extent the 64 channels in a Master/Slave configuration do offer some flexibility. At least you can route the 32 channels of the Slave internally as network inputs to the Master and record 32 channels through FireWire. On the other hand you can record 64 channels through FireWire, when AVB is involved and Studio One is part of the AVB network. How that works together with the Studio One integration to the CS18AI and the mysterious DAW button, is not really clear to me.

My Mac mini is not the best computer to test this kind of configuration, which I anyway don't need, but I would be interested to get a better understanding of how things work together and what kind of solutions are possible. AVB plays a mysterious role in this whole "arrangement", so it is worth further investigations...

AVB II will have the integration of external devices, like it was shown on the NAMM show. The SL32 was connected to a prototype of a new Waves SoundGrid Bridge. Have a look at this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf0ZZvT5WgU) from 4:39 to 5:18.

AVB II, not AVB I...

:(
User avatar
by Karyn on Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:06 pm
Ignore the above -^

AVB in RM will not talk to a computer.
Dante can't be used if you're cascading the RMs.
FireWire will work perfectly fine. Especially easy on a Mac.

Cascade the RMs with AVB and connect CS18 as normal. Connect FireWire from Master RM to Mac and use Capture to record as normal. Run Waves Multirack Native and patch any required channels. Select FireWire on each RM channel that you need inserts from Multirack. Its that simple.

Karyn

-------------------------------------------------------
SL32ai, RM32ai, SL328AI x2, SL18sAI x2, all Dante.
Studio 192, Digimax FS, Faderport,
Sonar Platinum, Studio One.
http://refer.waves.com/dzDVn
Dante Level2 certified.
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by roblof on Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:50 pm
Interestingly enough waves are no longer listed as an avnu alliance member and I can't find any other mention of the avb bridge.

Funny is also that waves have a document as to why avb is not a good option for their architecture. Their faq comment about avb commitment seem to be gone as well.

http://www.waves.com/1lib/pdf/soundgrid ... ompare.pdf

Audinate did a similar thing when they decided to cancel on avb and invested in aes67 instead. I'm hoping that waves will look into aes67 and aes70 in the future as that would be a killer for my setup. Today I have to rely on using the x-wsg option card in my x32 to gain soundgrid support.

What is the roundtrip latency with sl-mk3 using avb into a decent mac and studioone used as a channel insert on the mixer?

wahlerstudios wroteThe RM mixers offer no digital insert or routing and AVB
AVB II will have the integration of external devices, like it was shown on the NAMM show. The SL32 was connected to a prototype of a new Waves SoundGrid Bridge. Have a look at this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf0ZZvT5WgU) from 4:39 to 5:18.

Studio One Pro v5, Notion 6, Nuendo 11, BitWig v3, Reaper v4, Ableton Live 8 Suite, iMac late 2015, Behringer Wing/x32-BigBoy/x32-rack all with Dante/aes67 and s16/sd16 stageboxes, Flow8, Waves x-wsg with SoundGrid server, Behringer X-Touch, X-Touch ONE, M-Air mr18, X-Air xr18, DP48, Hub4 and p16 monitor systems, TurboSound iQ-speakers, Motör 61, BCR-2000, FirePod 10, Apogee Ensemble, Alesis HD24, NI Komplete 12 Ultimate Collectors, Halion 6, True Temperament Frets on basses and guitars, Katana-100, DT-50, JSX, JCM800, Korg Kronos, Roland vk-7, Behringer Deepmind 12, Behringer Neutron
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by philmoakes on Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:55 pm
Thanks for the thoughts everyone. Feels a bit less intuitive than I'd hoped so I'll put this idea on the back burner for a while and keep it simple.

CS18, RM32, RM32, HP4, ERIS 5, MOTU AVB SWITCH
User avatar
by Karyn on Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:56 am
It's not as complex as it sounds Phil, just requires a little logical thought following the signal path through a channel.

Mic in > preamp > FW Out > Computer > Waves Multirack > FW Return > FAT Channel...

Just ensure the FireWire is selected as INPUT on every channel you need Waves..

Karyn

-------------------------------------------------------
SL32ai, RM32ai, SL328AI x2, SL18sAI x2, all Dante.
Studio 192, Digimax FS, Faderport,
Sonar Platinum, Studio One.
http://refer.waves.com/dzDVn
Dante Level2 certified.
User avatar
by robertbernard on Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:43 am
Phil,

I use Waves MultiRack and four separate Waves Plugins in a live situation with my two RM16AI's cascaded with my CS18. I also run Capture at the same time on the same computer and I've had no issues with the setup. I use a refurbished HP Business laptop computer thru FW (see specs below) and the CPU usage and Memory never exceed 32%. I've done about 40 shows this year with this setup and it's never let me down. I can tell you that the Waves Plugins that we use do wonders for vocals and it's about as simple to implement as can be. I paid $340.00 dollars (US) at Staples.com for the computer.

HP 6470B Business Laptop
14in Display with LED backlit HD anti-glare screen & Intel Graphics
Intel Core i5-3320M 2.6Ghz Processor
16GB Memory, 750GB Hard Drive, DVDRW
Windows 10 Professional 64bit

Cheers!!!

2 Presonus RM16AI, CS18AI, AudioBox USB, AudioBox 1818VSL, Lenovo 560 23" All-In-One i5/3.0ghz, Dell Pro Venue 10, HP Pro612 Tablet Presonus StudioOne Professional, ERIS 8 monitors, Alesis Elevate 6 monitors, AKG K141 headphones. Budda SD18, SD30, and SD45 amplifiers, Marshall JVM 205H amps and cabinets. Gibson Les Pau Standards, Classic, Traditionals and Signature. Carvin XD360 Speaker Management System. Mackie subs and Mains. Crown Power Amps and AKG Tetrad Quad Wireless Mics.
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by roblof on Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:48 am
Four plugins in total or per channel? What is your latency running it in your setup?

Which plugins do you use? My macbook pro from mid-2009 can only run five instances of the j37 in stereo before it barfs but with the impact server i can run 22 instances. :D

robertbernard wroteI use Waves MultiRack and four separate Waves Plugins in a live situation with my two RM16AI's cascaded with my CS18.

Studio One Pro v5, Notion 6, Nuendo 11, BitWig v3, Reaper v4, Ableton Live 8 Suite, iMac late 2015, Behringer Wing/x32-BigBoy/x32-rack all with Dante/aes67 and s16/sd16 stageboxes, Flow8, Waves x-wsg with SoundGrid server, Behringer X-Touch, X-Touch ONE, M-Air mr18, X-Air xr18, DP48, Hub4 and p16 monitor systems, TurboSound iQ-speakers, Motör 61, BCR-2000, FirePod 10, Apogee Ensemble, Alesis HD24, NI Komplete 12 Ultimate Collectors, Halion 6, True Temperament Frets on basses and guitars, Katana-100, DT-50, JSX, JCM800, Korg Kronos, Roland vk-7, Behringer Deepmind 12, Behringer Neutron
User avatar
by robertbernard on Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:56 am
So for our typical live set up we run all of our tracks through MultiRacks, normally 16 channels....

4 vocals
2 guitars
1 bass guitar
1 kick drum
2 floor toms
3 rack toms
1 snare
2 overheads

We run the following Waves Plugins on each Vocal Channel....
Renaissance DeEsser
Renaissance VOX
Renaissance Doubler
Waves Tune Real Time

I also run the One-Knob Fatter on the kick drum and the bass guitar.

We have never had any latency issues that are noticeable and it works like a charm. I will say that my laptop is optimized for just this purpose so a lot of the garbage that slows down computers and uses disk space or resources has been eliminated.

:thumbup:

2 Presonus RM16AI, CS18AI, AudioBox USB, AudioBox 1818VSL, Lenovo 560 23" All-In-One i5/3.0ghz, Dell Pro Venue 10, HP Pro612 Tablet Presonus StudioOne Professional, ERIS 8 monitors, Alesis Elevate 6 monitors, AKG K141 headphones. Budda SD18, SD30, and SD45 amplifiers, Marshall JVM 205H amps and cabinets. Gibson Les Pau Standards, Classic, Traditionals and Signature. Carvin XD360 Speaker Management System. Mackie subs and Mains. Crown Power Amps and AKG Tetrad Quad Wireless Mics.
User avatar
by Friedhelm on Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:48 pm
robertbernard wroteSo for our typical live set up we run all of our tracks through MultiRacks, normally 16 channels....



We run the following Waves Plugins on each Vocal Channel....
Renaissance DeEsser
Renaissance VOX
Renaissance Doubler
Waves Tune Real Time


:thumbup:


most of us have heard that compression should not be applyed too heavy (or even not at all) on the moitor signal.
Do you run this chain to the monitors as well or do you have the post send button engaged which sends the signal after the fat channel to your digital sends??

SL1602
RM16AI
Nowsonic stage router
StudioOne pro2
mac book pro 2009
ipad4
db technologies DVX 10(2x), DVX8(4x)
db technologies S08(2x)

https://www.waves.com/r/bqvxon
User avatar
by wahlerstudios on Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:12 pm
The only video I have seen yet about RM32AI and Waves MultiRack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCJmtPlrEQA
User avatar
by robertbernard on Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:53 pm
We do not run any effects or compression thru the monitors. We run powered monitors that have built in EQ, delays, reverbs and such if we need to sweeten the monitors for the vocals. Haven't had any issues and I have to say that I haven't even thought about using UC Surface for the last 20 shows or so, the CS18ai is way more user-friendly and quicker when you have to make adjustments during the show.
:D :D

2 Presonus RM16AI, CS18AI, AudioBox USB, AudioBox 1818VSL, Lenovo 560 23" All-In-One i5/3.0ghz, Dell Pro Venue 10, HP Pro612 Tablet Presonus StudioOne Professional, ERIS 8 monitors, Alesis Elevate 6 monitors, AKG K141 headphones. Budda SD18, SD30, and SD45 amplifiers, Marshall JVM 205H amps and cabinets. Gibson Les Pau Standards, Classic, Traditionals and Signature. Carvin XD360 Speaker Management System. Mackie subs and Mains. Crown Power Amps and AKG Tetrad Quad Wireless Mics.
User avatar
by philmoakes on Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:08 am
robertbernard wrotePhil,

I use Waves MultiRack and four separate Waves Plugins in a live situation with my two RM16AI's cascaded with my CS18.

Cheers!!!


Thanks for this - sounds more promising than I thought. I typically use WAVES SSL channel strips, HVERB, BSS DPR 402 compressor, Bass Rider, Vocal Rider, CLA pack and loads of others. If I can run this on the same laptop as Capture (MBP i7) then that saves on more hardware.

I'll ponder.

Thanks

CS18, RM32, RM32, HP4, ERIS 5, MOTU AVB SWITCH
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by wahlerstudios on Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:21 am
And how do you control/adjust the Wave plug-ins in a live situation with the CS18AI at FOH? Do you always walk to the stage where the computer is located...?
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by robertbernard on Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:50 pm
The computer stays on stage. With the plugins we use live, there is very little to change once we do a sound check, and since I'm also the guitar player in the band it's a simple as turning around to make an adjustment. :thumbup:

2 Presonus RM16AI, CS18AI, AudioBox USB, AudioBox 1818VSL, Lenovo 560 23" All-In-One i5/3.0ghz, Dell Pro Venue 10, HP Pro612 Tablet Presonus StudioOne Professional, ERIS 8 monitors, Alesis Elevate 6 monitors, AKG K141 headphones. Budda SD18, SD30, and SD45 amplifiers, Marshall JVM 205H amps and cabinets. Gibson Les Pau Standards, Classic, Traditionals and Signature. Carvin XD360 Speaker Management System. Mackie subs and Mains. Crown Power Amps and AKG Tetrad Quad Wireless Mics.
User avatar
by jkgill on Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:47 pm
I own an RM32ai as well. I too wanted to integrate Waves plugins with this mixer. Outside of the native (FW800) interface, which adds too much latency even without plugins running - it can't be done. At least not for a live show. I recently purchased a Series III 32R, an SW5E, the Waves BR-1 and a Mobile server running Multirack v10. I am happy to report that this system works beautifully!

The BR-1 was pulled for revision, but Waves told me there was nothing wrong with them and it would do what I wanted. I run at least 2 plugins per group (vocals, drum, instrument) and 5 on my main LR. I also run X-FDBK on monitors, and PSE on vocal channels. Average of 20 plugins at once... No latency, no drop-outs. Usually at less than 40% cpu usage. All of this on the Waves mobile server!!

After the "let down" of discontinuing the RM32, I didn't want to buy more Presonus gear. I got a chance to actually hear one and the preamps are even better than the RM. The effects are still lame, but I've routed Waves R-verb into my FX A and FX B and it's awesome.

Stop trying to get milk from a horse and get an 32R... no regrets here!

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