StudioLive RM32Ai and RM16Ai Mixers & UC Surface with QMix Ai
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Okay, so after racking my brain all weekend....I'm officially stumped. I am trying to cascade 2 RM16AI mixers that I have, due to an upcoming gig where more than 16 inputs will be required. I have used each RM mixer independently over the past year with no problems at all. At least 40 gigs on each one. Each mixer has the latest Firmware v9244 and I am using the latest UC Surface Control v1.8.3. I have the recommended MOTU AVB switch and I have hooked up everything exactly as the instructions and video states. The problem I am having is that once everything is hooked up and I have selected the "slave" mixer in the networking tab in UC Surface, it shows the slave mixer channels (starting on Ch. 33) but they are not labeled with the channel number, they all default to the "center" and I cannot change to "main" and 48v and Phase buttons do not work either. They do pass a signal though. I'm running the same Lenovo 23in touch screen to control them that I always use live, and I also tried to other computers but with the same results. Not sure if this is a bug that I stumbled upon or what..... Any ideas? A cold beer goes to the person that can shed some light on this......... :D

2 Presonus RM16AI, CS18AI, AudioBox USB, AudioBox 1818VSL, Lenovo 560 23" All-In-One i5/3.0ghz, Dell Pro Venue 10, HP Pro612 Tablet Presonus StudioOne Professional, ERIS 8 monitors, Alesis Elevate 6 monitors, AKG K141 headphones. Budda SD18, SD30, and SD45 amplifiers, Marshall JVM 205H amps and cabinets. Gibson Les Pau Standards, Classic, Traditionals and Signature. Carvin XD360 Speaker Management System. Mackie subs and Mains. Crown Power Amps and AKG Tetrad Quad Wireless Mics.
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by wahlerstudios on Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:06 pm
Could be a bug, indeed. I have not seen this when cascading RM32AI and RM16AI, but sometimes the RM mixers need a little "push" to label things correctly. Maybe this helps: After starting AVB, the router and the mixers, you should see them as separate tabs in UC Surface. Do a "zero out" to both boards and then cascade them. Sometimes mixer's settings (scenes) can be a little bit "sticky". Another "trick" could be to switch slave and master. Maybe that helps the problem, but don't ask me for a scientific relevant answer, if it works... ;)

It is correct that your "slave" mixer uses channels 33 to 48 for the analog channels and 49 to 64 for its digital channels. You should check if the correct input source is selected. 1 to 16 and 33 to 48 are the analog inputs.
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by robertbernard on Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:53 pm
Thanks Wahler! Funny you mentioned the separate tabs in UC Surface as I looked to see if there was something there that I was missing but everything looked correct. Didn't think about doing a "zero out" of both mixers but I will give that a shot tonight. I did switch "slave" mixers several times but that didn't fix the problem. Up until now these mixers have been great and I haven't had a single problem with either one. :)

2 Presonus RM16AI, CS18AI, AudioBox USB, AudioBox 1818VSL, Lenovo 560 23" All-In-One i5/3.0ghz, Dell Pro Venue 10, HP Pro612 Tablet Presonus StudioOne Professional, ERIS 8 monitors, Alesis Elevate 6 monitors, AKG K141 headphones. Budda SD18, SD30, and SD45 amplifiers, Marshall JVM 205H amps and cabinets. Gibson Les Pau Standards, Classic, Traditionals and Signature. Carvin XD360 Speaker Management System. Mackie subs and Mains. Crown Power Amps and AKG Tetrad Quad Wireless Mics.
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by robertbernard on Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:10 am
Well I tried zeroing-out both mixers, tried a different router, different Ethernet cables and pretty much anything else I could think of......but same result. It's got to be a bug in either the latest firmware or possibly UC Surface. I'll put in a support ticket and see if Presonus has some suggestions. Meanwhile I'm going shopping today for a 32 channel mixer..... :lol:

2 Presonus RM16AI, CS18AI, AudioBox USB, AudioBox 1818VSL, Lenovo 560 23" All-In-One i5/3.0ghz, Dell Pro Venue 10, HP Pro612 Tablet Presonus StudioOne Professional, ERIS 8 monitors, Alesis Elevate 6 monitors, AKG K141 headphones. Budda SD18, SD30, and SD45 amplifiers, Marshall JVM 205H amps and cabinets. Gibson Les Pau Standards, Classic, Traditionals and Signature. Carvin XD360 Speaker Management System. Mackie subs and Mains. Crown Power Amps and AKG Tetrad Quad Wireless Mics.
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by bubbaguth on Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:04 am
I hope you get on the right path with support and that you are able to get things going without having to think you need to bail and spend more money. I understand how frustrating it can be when you are having problems, especially when everything seems to go to hell. That said...this stuff works when everything is set up and in-sync. It isn't problem free (which no digital console is), but my experience is rock solid for a long time with cascaded mixers. When I do experience a problem, it is most frequently my error with the highly rare unexplained glitch on occasion.

All that said, I have never heard of or experienced your issue and it sounds strange. If you are still seeking help here, I would really love to see some screen shots and confirm a few things:

Screen shot of:
Your entire "Network" screen in UC Surface.
Your PC's IP address and network info.
Screen shot of your mixer layout with the weird channel assignments. I am specifically confused by this statement
but they are not labeled with the channel number, they all default to the "center" and I cannot change to "main" and 48v and Phase buttons do not work either.

UC Surface Splash Screen (before you connect) when the mixers are cascaded.

Configuration:
- Router configuration - specifically if it is configured to supply DHCP address (aka, all equipment does or does not have static IP address assignment).
- Mac or Windows?? Make sure you have hard wired Ethernet into AVB port on switch and your wireless is turned off on PC. Are you connecting via Firewire cable too?
- Your mixers are hard wired ethernet as well? Are the wifi dongles removed?

The process of cascading or uncascading could be smoother as far as the feedback you receive from UC Surface. It sometimes will crash or I get the wheel of death so I would suggest rebooting your mixers and computer afterwards and things should come back ok. After that, I never touch this configuration. If both mixers are present, they cascade. If only one mixer is present, they don't. However, I always use the same one mixer for 99% of my shows so scene management remains clean for me. Also, I cascade and RM32 & RM16, but my understanding is the process is the same regardless of the mix of mixers. We can't rule out there is something going on here between two RM16's that has not been discovered.

Good luck!

RM32AI, RM16AI, CS18AI, SL16, 32R, NSB 16.8, 328AI, 18sAI
MOTO AVB and 5WSE Switch
NowSonic Stage Router Pro
Microsoft Surface Pro
Apple iPad Pro
Macbook Pro
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by robertbernard on Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:00 pm
Well..... I got it fixed (I think :lol: )

I did a firmware flash (removing the card in the back) and reloaded the latest firmware on both mixers and all appears to be working as designed. I've tested it several times and each time it worked perfectly. So......no need to purchase a new mixer today, I just ordered a RM32L from one of the online retailers and I will use that when the need arises. I appreciate all the responses. Looking forward to the show this weekend!
:thumbup:

2 Presonus RM16AI, CS18AI, AudioBox USB, AudioBox 1818VSL, Lenovo 560 23" All-In-One i5/3.0ghz, Dell Pro Venue 10, HP Pro612 Tablet Presonus StudioOne Professional, ERIS 8 monitors, Alesis Elevate 6 monitors, AKG K141 headphones. Budda SD18, SD30, and SD45 amplifiers, Marshall JVM 205H amps and cabinets. Gibson Les Pau Standards, Classic, Traditionals and Signature. Carvin XD360 Speaker Management System. Mackie subs and Mains. Crown Power Amps and AKG Tetrad Quad Wireless Mics.
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by wahlerstudios on Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:15 pm
I was going to recommend exactly this: a factory reset (for both mixers) with the option card removed. But you found this "trick" yourself. It's the very last thing we as users can do. And it does work! I have seen this with my RM mixers. The last few firmware updates failed, but a factory reset with the latest firmware made the machine(s) work.
Last edited by wahlerstudios on Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by robertbernard on Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:44 pm
"Wahler"...had you suggested it two posts ago I would have bought you a beer.....lol But if you're ever in the US, the offer still stands. :)

Regards

2 Presonus RM16AI, CS18AI, AudioBox USB, AudioBox 1818VSL, Lenovo 560 23" All-In-One i5/3.0ghz, Dell Pro Venue 10, HP Pro612 Tablet Presonus StudioOne Professional, ERIS 8 monitors, Alesis Elevate 6 monitors, AKG K141 headphones. Budda SD18, SD30, and SD45 amplifiers, Marshall JVM 205H amps and cabinets. Gibson Les Pau Standards, Classic, Traditionals and Signature. Carvin XD360 Speaker Management System. Mackie subs and Mains. Crown Power Amps and AKG Tetrad Quad Wireless Mics.

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