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Hello everybody,
my goal is to send our input signals from the 24R to our mixer (series 3 SL 24) for our FoH mix and then have a second send of all input signals to a computer which then can use them in a DAW to mix a broadcast mix.

I was watching the Presonus video "How to Livestream Worship Audio—Full Webcast" and from min. 13:34 they explain the first option which is to have e.g. the 24R send a signal to the mixer and also to the computer to a DAW e.g..

However, I do not quite understand the cabling set up that is needed to achieve this. Or, did I misunderstand it and it is not possible like that?

Would appreciate help with how to build this set up.


Greetings,
Dominik
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by SwitchBack on Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:37 pm
Hi and welcome to this forum :)

If your system is limited to an SL24 and a 24R then all you need is a CAT5e or CAT6 cable between the AVB network connectors on those mixers. That will allow those mixers to exchange inputs and mixes.

To connect a computer to this system you have a few options:
1. You can use a usb cable to connect to the mixer that has all the channels you want in your DAW on it. If both mixers have those channels it can be either. USB cable length is limited to the standard 9ft or so.
2. You can add an AVB switch to your network and connect your computer to that, provided that your computer is AVDECC capable. This gives your DAW access to every input and mix in your AVB network. AVB cable length can be hundreds of feet.
3. You can set up a stereo Aux mix in one of the mixers and cable that to an audio interface connected to the computer (from a nearby NSB stage box inserted in the AVB network or balanced analog audio all the way from a pair of Aux outputs on the mixer with the mix). Balanced audio cabling can be several hundreds of feet too.

With option 3 you only get a stereo mix into the computer. But you can remote-control that mix from your computer too, so instead of mixing in your DAW you'll be mixing your broadcast audio in the mixer.

Hope this helps :)

PS. Option 1 in the video assumes that you set up and use one mixer exclusively for the broadcast mix, probably in another room. You'll map all the channels you need to that mixer, usb-connect a computer and then choose if you want to mix in the mixer or in your DAW.
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by wahlerstudios on Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:35 pm
If you run the 24R in Monitor Mixer Mode or Stand-alone Mode, it can also have a USB connection to a computer. Stand-alone Mode also adds a second "Main L/R" mix with effects independent from FOH. But the most important question is always where the broadcast/livestream computer will be located - next to FOH or next to the stage(box). Option No. 4 would be to add a second 24R or a 32R and a SW5E AVB switch, which would make it possible to use the broadcast mixer anywhere in the building. If you add a rack mixer, it will make sense to add a Faderport as well, because a DAW needs "real" faders and buttons. Option No. 5 would be to add a second Series III console and use it in DAW Mode.
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by maartendelange1 on Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:01 pm
Hi, thank you already for the input!

We are actually using Option 3 at the moment. We have flex mix 15/16 set up and route that via USB from the SL24 s3 mixer into our computer for audio. The other flex mixes are used for IEMs.

To double check regarding option 1:
a) So, if we use the 24R as our stagebox from which we send everything to our mixer (SL24 s3) via AVB, we can additionally send those inputs via usb to our computer? (basically like video option 1)

b) alternatively it would be possible to use the 24R to mix broadcast (as it has mixing capabilities on its own, e.g. via IPad) and send that to our computer while also
sending the inputs "untreated" to our FoH console (SL24 s3) for mixing there as well?

@wahlerstudios
the computer is besides the FoH console.


Greetings and have a good evening.
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by SwitchBack on Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:14 pm
SL24 channel layout.png
a) Yes, every mixer channel is also available from that mixer’s USB port. Have a look at the block diagram(s) for options like Digital/Analog Send and Pre/Post EQ&Dyn because those settings affect what’s exactly on the digital sends. The key message here is that every input you want in your broadcast mix has to be assigned to one of the 32 channels on the mixer connected to your computer. Means that you probably can keep your computer where it is, connect it to the FOH mixer’s USB port, and do the broadcast mix in your DAW. Or connect it to the rack mixer if that’s more convenient.

b) Yes, of course you can. But I don’t see how that’s different from what you’ve done so far.
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by wahlerstudios on Thu Dec 01, 2022 5:04 pm
Unfortunately I am not allowed to use pictures greater than 800 pixels, so the photomontage of the fader options of a matrix mix might not be too impressive. 😊 But it might give you an idea that the Series III mixers are not restricted to the standard "separate mixer" or "aux mix" or "mix via DAW" approaches for livestreams. A stereo matrix mix can start with just the Main mix (the white fader) and maybe some individual channels added (the green faders). The four effect returns, Aux In 1+2 and Tape In (green faders) and the "fixed" subgroups A-D are also available (blue faders), as well as the remaining flex mixes (yellow faders).

On a Series III console, matrix mixes are easy to control. When using UC Surface, you should get a big touchscreen type of surface (at least 15"). Everything depends on HOW you want to create the livestream mix. The matrix mix approach works with the audio resources of the FOH console, so it does need teamwork. But it keeps things easy and effective.

EDIT: I see that the 800 pixels finally belong to yesterday. Now it's possible to add files up to 5120 pixels, so here we go... 😊

Attachments
matrix_5120.jpg
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by maartendelange1 on Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:04 am
Great, Thank you!

I will give it a try soon and then give a brief update on how/if it worked out well.

Regarding how b) would be different: right now we just send the main FoH master to a flex mix 15/16. We mute all other channels on 15/16 besides the main FoH line, boost that a bit and send it to the computer as L/R Main. So no separate mixing is going on there and it is effectively just a boosted copy of what FoH hears (not great for broadcast of course). So b) would give us the option that a second person can easily mix it.

Cause even if we are mixing in our flex mix e.g. 15/16 now (as we have all the inputs there + the main L/R), the EQ, compr. etc from the main mix are still applied to the individual lines there as well and we can just change levels for each inputs from what I see and understand?

Well, the bottom line is that I need to try out what you guys suggested and then I can come back with additional (practical) questions as they arise. :)
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by wahlerstudios on Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:21 am
A matrix mix is an "extended version" of an aux mix and it also has the pre/post options, which means that you don't necessarily need to actively "mix" a livestream. When you set the matrix mix to "post(fader)" and all input faders to "U", the matrix mix will follow the Main mix. When you change fader settings like "vocals less loud in the mix" or "speech louder during background music" (examples), then you get a perfectly balanced livestream mix.

It still can make sense to dedicate one effect mix (e.g. reverb) to the livestream, with level settings similar to the matrix mix. Also ambience microphones (at least two) are always helpful to create a nice live sounding "natural" mix. If the matrix mix is set to postfade, the ambience microphones need to be raised in the Main mix, but of course they should be unrouted from the Main mix.

Aux and matrix mixes have Pre1/Pre2 settings, so you can include or exclude parts of the Fat Channels and add more "overall" processing by the 6-band parametric EQ of the aux/matrix master and by adding a 31-band graphic equalizer. FOH mixes and broadcast/livestream mixes are never identical, but they can use the same sources and it does make sense that the bassdrum (example) sounds the same in both mixes. Sound is always related to music, so what happens on stage "directs" and unites the mixes. Or not...

Let's see where you are heading to. We're looking forward to your feedback. 😊
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by wahlerstudios on Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:39 am
As example I add a screenshot of a postfade stereo matrix mix with the two vocal microphones not set to "U".

Attachments
matrixmixlevels.jpg

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