StudioLive RM32Ai and RM16Ai Mixers & UC Surface with QMix Ai
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I have just updated the firmware on my mixer and have since been plagued with issues.

Due to the type of live sound work I do in small venues I have my mixer on stage connected to my MacBook via Firewire (Thunderbolt 3 adapters have previously worked) - I then have my iPad to be remote at the back of the venue.

At the weekend I discovered that all the issues I had were when I was running UC and UC Surface together. The end solution was to not use UC at all - which isn't ideal. UC surface was very responsive but UC was laggy and buggy. I'll list the issues below;

- Running both together UC would become unresponsive (i.e. no fader movement of ability to use fat channel)

- UC Surface would disconnect and wouldn't re-connect without a re-boot (power cycle) of all gear.
When this happened the channel status lights would no longer respond to input signal (i.e. go green)
in some case the indicator light for channel 4 would stay a solid green (some kind of error code?).

- Mutes would take about 10 seconds to take effect. If at all. Mutes between UC and UC Surface were out of synch.

None of my presets could be recalled from UC.

My hunch is that this is a UC software issue post Firmware update.

Any suggestions for a fix would be welcomed.

Thanks.

Sam
Desperately amateur, hopelessly passionate.

MacBook Pro - Mid 2017 - OS 10.13.6
3.1GHz Intel Core i7
16GB 2133 MHz RAM

StudioLive RML16AI
UC 2.8.0.48221 (Jul 5 2018)
UC Surface 2.9.0.49213 (Sep 10 2018)
Firmware v13731

Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Apple MainStage 3.0
IO configured as Aggregate Device
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by Friedhelm on Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:18 am
you should run a factory reset and pull up the older 9244 firmware. it is in their heads now that there are several issues with the new firmware release.
then, we all wait for better firmware to come...

SL1602
RM16AI
Nowsonic stage router
StudioOne pro2
mac book pro 2009
ipad4
db technologies DVX 10(2x), DVX8(4x)
db technologies S08(2x)

https://www.waves.com/r/bqvxon
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by wahlerstudios on Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:28 am
The "UC Control 2.9 Milestone Release" of Sept. 13, 2018 is not available for download any longer, but it is still known, what the "milestone" was: "Adds support for Atom". But wait, there was more... :

"Fixed In This Release:

UC Surface
● UC surface now lists all available devices on Android after sleep
● Fixes an issue in which multiple instances of the same device could be shown in the UC Launch Window in some cases

Series III Mixers
● FX Returns and Mix Masters have no GR meters
● Capture remote permissions now work as expected
● UC Surface no longer shows black screen after connected mixer is power-cycled"


For the iPad-version it says "support for new hardware and other improvements" (quote from "What's new"/App Store) like the de-activation of presets, which PreSonus will "address for a future release of UC" (quote from "Answers"). But a combination of UC Surface 2.8 on computer and UC Surface 2.9 on iPad works, so don't mind...

May I ask if you are using a router? Which one and which frequency are you using? I don't see any of the problems you are describing (except the "FireWire display lag"), so your problems seem to be router-related. Reverting firmware back to v9244 might help, if you find a matching version of UC Surface, but as your iPad is already infected with UC Surface 2.9, there might be more or other problems coming. I would not hope for a "better" firmware coming for the AI mixers, as long as we have to deal with UC Surface 2.x. The "old" FireWire devices need UC Surface 1.8.2. and a matching firmware version for the different mixers.

Just my 2 Euro cent...

;-)

SL16 | 32R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Studio One Pro 3.5
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by lucavettore on Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:08 am
Same issue.... reinstalled firmware 9244 and all works fine
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by Spirit on Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:21 pm
Next issue:
I upgraded my two RM32AI mixers to the actual firmware and UC surface to the actual version.
Firewire lag still there (as described in one of my other posts). No surprise on that.
But now mixer backup is not working at all. Not with firewire (that is a known issue), but also not on network connected computers. Mixer screen shows process as if the file were copied, but after finishing backup, tere is no entry on the backup screen and also nothing saved on the HD of the computer. Anybody out there having the same issue?

MacBookPro iOS 10.10, Capture, iPad
2 x RM32AI, HP Envy Recline (i7, 23", Multitouch),
PA. KS-Audio CPD12, CPD1, CPD208, CL208 with CA4-D Amps
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by billvasili on Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:29 pm
We had the Same issues with 2.9.2
We Disconnected the FireWire and just used the RM32 with the MacBook through the router and with iPad for remote control
Works fine with computer and iPad, no lag, saving scenes works fine, everything works fine now
We Just cannot use Smaart or Capture until there is a new update that fixes these issues
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by wahlerstudios on Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:40 am
Just to get the picture clear again: There is no general problem with Capture, FireWire and Smaart. All this works with 2.9.2. The problems have to do with the display of signals. What you see is the famous "FireWire Dislay Lag", which makes any display of signal (including RTA and Spectra) more or less unusable. :hunf: But you can do multitrack recording - and if you look at the metering of Capture (or Studio One) in your computer, it's as precise as always before. The problem is UC Surface 2.x, not FireWire. If you want to see the signal display working "as promised", you need to revert to firmware 9244 and UC Surface 1.8.0 or 1.8.1.

You can use Capture without any problems, and being able to control Capture via UC Surface (computer, iPad) and CS18AI is a valuable feature for the RM/RML mixers.

SL16 | 32R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Studio One Pro 3.5
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by samfisher1 on Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:02 pm
It’s not just display issues of meters on FireWire. The latest firmware renders my mixer inoperable on a number of counts;

Scene recall
Mute scene naming
Unresponsive faders
Phantom movement of faders
Connection to multiple devices
Once the connection to iPad falls I have to power cycle the mixer.

I firmly believe that PreSonus have chosen to turn a blind and ignorant eye to the issues. It’s such a pity that my relatively modern mixer has been rendered inoperable by software ‘updates’ from the company that made the thing.

I feel disillusioned by a company that I have put trust in and am starting to question its integrity.

I think there are probably legal grounds for a full refund on the equipment I have invested in, based on the action of the manufacturer rendering it inoperable and unfit for purpose within a reasonable life span.

My equipment is no longer fit for purpose.

PreSonus, I’m happy to take this discussion offline. I’m equally happy to question your integrity, credibility and reliability in as many public forums possible. Your call!

Sam
Desperately amateur, hopelessly passionate.

MacBook Pro - Mid 2017 - OS 10.13.6
3.1GHz Intel Core i7
16GB 2133 MHz RAM

StudioLive RML16AI
UC 2.8.0.48221 (Jul 5 2018)
UC Surface 2.9.0.49213 (Sep 10 2018)
Firmware v13731

Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Apple MainStage 3.0
IO configured as Aggregate Device
User avatar
by sjc193 on Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:28 am
samfisher1 wrotePhantom movement of faders


This is what has me unable to update past 9244 and UC 1.8.3.

And every time we mention this to support, they say they can't replicate it. But it happens to me every time within 1 minute of use. So, what's the deal? Do I need a new computer? I don't know, if I knew for sure that a new computer would solve the problem then I might consider it, but I would need someone to show me it working perfectly on a newer computer for me to believe it. . .

[ Play Quicktime file ] Fader Move on their own.mp4 [ 8.24 MiB | Viewed 271 times ]



Steve

StudioLive RM32AI
Rackmount Windows 8.1 PC Quad core 8G ram
ASUS RT-N66U Dual Band Router
IPad2, IPad Air 2, Studio One 3 Pro, 1 DBX Driverack 260
2 QSC KW 153's, 2 Turbosound TMS-1's
2 OHM MR450D Subs with Kilomax 18inch drivers
4 EV ZLX-12P's, 2 Yamaha S115V's
4 Behringer EP2500 amps, 1 QSC Amp
10 58/57 mics, 1 AT2020, 2 AT2021, 1 beta52 kick mic
2 e609, 2 Radial J48 DI's
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by samfisher1 on Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:07 am
I don't know about whether a new computer would fix it. The way I see it is that older software worked better, new software doesn't work as well and PreSonus have all but given up trying to make new software work as well as the old. I wish I was wrong about that but I haven't seen any evidence of action that would contradict me.

I suspect that a key software developer has left the organisation and there are no longer the in-house skills to fix a system that is riddled with bugs.

I asked support ages ago about updates to the firmware and I was simply told that they couldn't comment.

I'd be so pleased for Presonus to enter into dialogue even but I get the picture they're just big kids going 'la,la,la' with their fingers in their ears.

Sam
Desperately amateur, hopelessly passionate.

MacBook Pro - Mid 2017 - OS 10.13.6
3.1GHz Intel Core i7
16GB 2133 MHz RAM

StudioLive RML16AI
UC 2.8.0.48221 (Jul 5 2018)
UC Surface 2.9.0.49213 (Sep 10 2018)
Firmware v13731

Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Apple MainStage 3.0
IO configured as Aggregate Device
User avatar
by sjc193 on Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:22 pm
samfisher1 wrote The way I see it is that older software worked better, new software doesn't work as well and PreSonus have all but given up trying to make new software work as well as the old.


I see it the same way. FireWire lag can definitely be fixed.

In fact, I had the FireWire lag issue (ghost faders) back in UC 1.3 and earlier! Then they fixed it in UC 1.5 (though no mention of it in the release notes, I was just ecstatic that it was fixed, first thing I tried when it came out), worked perfectly through 1.8, then it broke again (in the exact same way believe it or not) when UC 2 came out. I'm positive of this as I am one of the few people who mixes 100% of the time using UC on a FireWire computer for years since the RM's first came out and I bought one, I do not use the iPad app unless I absolutely have to (I love the spectragraphs).

The is some piece of code from the original UC that didn't make it into the new version. IMO

The only reason I even care to go to UC 2.x is because the faders are much better to use on a touchscreen than the version 1 faders. But if the faders are going to move around on their own the whole time doesn't do me much good does it!

Steve

StudioLive RM32AI
Rackmount Windows 8.1 PC Quad core 8G ram
ASUS RT-N66U Dual Band Router
IPad2, IPad Air 2, Studio One 3 Pro, 1 DBX Driverack 260
2 QSC KW 153's, 2 Turbosound TMS-1's
2 OHM MR450D Subs with Kilomax 18inch drivers
4 EV ZLX-12P's, 2 Yamaha S115V's
4 Behringer EP2500 amps, 1 QSC Amp
10 58/57 mics, 1 AT2020, 2 AT2021, 1 beta52 kick mic
2 e609, 2 Radial J48 DI's
User avatar
by bjmccaskil on Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:06 pm
I have the exact same experiences.

I am finding the latest firmware and UC 2.9.x so problematic that I won't dare take it live again. After two months I gave up and reverted back to 9244.

Does anyone have experience with problems using 9244 and the latest UC and QMIX versions on iPads and iPhones? It's a pain to revert iOS to old versions when I don't own and control all of the devices involved.

Thanks.
Last edited by bjmccaskil on Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by wahlerstudios on Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:40 am
No good news from the forthcoming v2.10.50106 UC Surface. The release notes say: "UC / UC Surface: Control and metering on UC Surface instance connected via Firewire may exhibit lag on some systems."

SL16 | 32R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Studio One Pro 3.5
User avatar
by sjc193 on Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:39 am
wahlerstudios wroteNo good news from the forthcoming v2.10.50106 UC Surface. The release notes say: "UC / UC Surface: Control and metering on UC Surface instance connected via Firewire may exhibit lag on some systems."


Right. My question is: Is there a "system" in which it does not exhibit lag and how can I get one?

Is there a mac that works? Are we all Windows guys with this problem? I've never seen anyone chime in here at the forum and heard someone say "working here!" or I would be chomping at the bit for information about their "system" (what computer are you using, what year, harddrive, OS, ect.).

Other than this my Windows 8.1 pro, FW400, 64 bit AMD quadcore 1.8GHz, 8 GB ram, rackmount computer works perfectly fine and I can record 32 channels at 44.1k and mix in UC 1.8 fine. Ya, it's a bit old and slow compared to new computers, but I'm not convinced a new computer will solve the FW lag problem because no one has told me it would. . .

anybody have a new MAC or PC and having these issues (especially the laggy meters or phantom faders from the video above)?

Steve

StudioLive RM32AI
Rackmount Windows 8.1 PC Quad core 8G ram
ASUS RT-N66U Dual Band Router
IPad2, IPad Air 2, Studio One 3 Pro, 1 DBX Driverack 260
2 QSC KW 153's, 2 Turbosound TMS-1's
2 OHM MR450D Subs with Kilomax 18inch drivers
4 EV ZLX-12P's, 2 Yamaha S115V's
4 Behringer EP2500 amps, 1 QSC Amp
10 58/57 mics, 1 AT2020, 2 AT2021, 1 beta52 kick mic
2 e609, 2 Radial J48 DI's
User avatar
by bjmccaskil on Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:46 pm
Steve,

I use an early 2011 Macbook Pro with built-in Firewire port. Have always used the current MacOS but am now stalled permanently at 10.13.6 (High Sierra).

I had the same problems you describe up to UC 1.5 but clear sailing since - until firmware 13731 and UC 2.9.x. In addition to FW lag, network issues, scene and channel naming issues, loss of mains out due to "phantom muting" (best description I have), it seemed there was some gremlin in the machine trying to take me down. Perhaps just paranoia by this point.

Rolled back to the July 10 ecosystem (9244, UC 2.8 and FW driver, Capture whatever) and system is solid again. After next gig I will update and test with one piece of software at a time. I suspect the FW driver - computer or RM32 end. Will report anything useful.

BJ
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by Spirit on Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:50 am
Very big trouble here. Urgent help required.
The setup:
- RM32 with MacBook Pro (Yosemite) connected via firewire
- 2 iPad connected via WiFi
- Touch PC connected via ethernat CAT5 cable
RM with with firmware 13731, all device with UC 2.9.2.49805.
Last night: first use after firmware and software update.
During rehearsal we faced a complete dropout of all control devices (firewire, WiFi and ethernet). Sound was going on, but there was no control possible: not on MacBook (via firewire) not iPad (via WiFi) and not on PC (via ethernet cable). Restart of RM fixed it, but after about 20 minutes we faced the same bang.
We thought, to be on the save side, by having another RM32 with us. So we replaced the RM and we disconnected WiFi, because we thought that this could have caused the problem. After restart of everything we finished rehearsal. It seemed everything is fine. The show started and after 20 minutes we lost control again. Sound kept running, but no control.
Since two RM have the same problem (and the same firmware), I'd like to rule out a hardware issue and since we had many shows this year with firmware 9244, I assume the new firmware is causing the trouble. Since all devices lost control at the same time, I would not think, it's a problem of UC surface version.
I opened tech support ticket, but need urgent help. So my questions to the community:
- do you agree with this assumption or do you have any other ideas, what could cause such trouble?
- I think about downgrade to firmware 9244. Which UC surface software will most likely work with this firmware? Will UC 2.9.2. work with this firmware?
- Will there be a problem using 2.9.2 on the iPads and another (older) version on MacBook and PC. As you know: you can't downgrade iPad, because App-Store only has the newest versions.
- any other ideas, what could help getting a reliable system back?

Any help is very much appreciated. We have another show next week. Thanks in advance.

MacBookPro iOS 10.10, Capture, iPad
2 x RM32AI, HP Envy Recline (i7, 23", Multitouch),
PA. KS-Audio CPD12, CPD1, CPD208, CL208 with CA4-D Amps
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by wahlerstudios on Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:00 pm
For you the beta firmware (later released as firmware v13731) seems to be the problem, so the only thing to do is to revert back to firmware v9244. The UC versions have no problem with older firmwares. It does not really help to use an old version of UC 2.x. UC 1.8 is needed only of you want to have correct metering display.

I have used 13731 (RM32AI) and 9244 (RM16AI) with newer and newest UC versions with two iPad 2 and one iPad 5 and a Mac mini (OS 10.9.5) in about 30 events without any problems (especially no loss of control), so downgrading to firmware 9244 probably is the best and only thing to do. But do not just install another firmware. Do one or two or three factory resets in order to get the rack mixers really "clean" again. After that it's important to NEVER LOAD OLD SCENES, but start from scratch again. This prevents old failures to show up again.

Try the downgrade immediately and then test your system extensively before the next gig. There is no general rule how to get a system solid again. You need to find out which combination works for you.

Just to say it again: The RM/RML mixer do not need firmware 13731 at all. Only the CS18AI needs a firmware upgrade.

SL16 | 32R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Studio One Pro 3.5
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by Spirit on Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:58 pm
Hi Whaler
Thanks a lot for your reply. I allready did a downgrade to 9244 with a factory reset on one of the RM. So far everything ok, except I do not see any default naming of the quick scene buttons.
We‘ll see. I‘m wondering what tech-support will say about that.
Thanks again for your reply.

MacBookPro iOS 10.10, Capture, iPad
2 x RM32AI, HP Envy Recline (i7, 23", Multitouch),
PA. KS-Audio CPD12, CPD1, CPD208, CL208 with CA4-D Amps
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by samfisher1 on Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:10 am
Spirit, I experienced many of the problems that you described and had to do a reset to 9244.

When a slightly newer version os Surface appeared I tried the new firmware again (thankfully during a tech rehearsal) and got all the same problem as you describe.

I'm back on 9244 now. From what I was abler to learn is that you need the new firmware to do things like mute and quick scene naming.

I'm mostly incensed that Persons remain silent despite out unhappiness. We have spent money on their products and they have all but broken them for us.

Sam
Desperately amateur, hopelessly passionate.

MacBook Pro - Mid 2017 - OS 10.13.6
3.1GHz Intel Core i7
16GB 2133 MHz RAM

StudioLive RML16AI
UC 2.8.0.48221 (Jul 5 2018)
UC Surface 2.9.0.49213 (Sep 10 2018)
Firmware v13731

Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Apple MainStage 3.0
IO configured as Aggregate Device
User avatar
by roblof on Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:46 am
I just wanted to point out one thing - It is totally possible to re-install a previous version of an app.

When you use itunes to backup your ipad/iphone it will also store your apps in the itunes backup directory. You can then copy those apps to a different directory as for safe keeping, so that you don’t overwrite the previous versions by mistake.

It is NOT possible to give someone else a copy of your stored apps as they are linked to your apple account and can therefor not be installed in your friends device.

iMac late 2015, Behringer X-Touch, X-Touch ONE, M-Air mr18, X-Air xr18, x32 with Dante/aes67, x32-rack with Dante/aes67, s16 and sd16 stageboxes, p16 monitor system, TurboSound iQ-speakers, Waves x-wsg with SoundGrid server, Motör 61, BCR-2000, StudioLive 24, FirePod 10, Apogee Ensemble, Alesis HD24, Studio One Pro v4.1.1, Notion 6, NI Komplete 11 Ultimate, Halion 6, Nuendo 8.2, Ableton Live 8 Suite, Reaper 4, misc Line6 gear/software, True Temperament Frets on basses and guitars, Korg Kronos, Roland vk-7, Behringer Deepmind 12, Yamaha 02r.....

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