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i guess this is a question / call for tips and any suggestions.

i have a lot of old *unfinished* song "ideas" in S1 as well as from a prior daw. none of these were recorded to click. many of these did not have a proper count in and or need polished intros / pickups *seamlessly* recorded before what's already in the song or audio file. equally important, most of the songs need to have material punched in *seamlessly* after what's already been recorded to finish the songs (add 1 or more verses, chorus, and perhaps a close out.

in sum, i'd say the majority of these consist of what i would call "only the middle" of songs that need some "left and right additional polish" ;) i usually don't / didn't have a full song idea structure in mind when i initially record / recorded it. so i have tons of really good but unfinished ideas / seeds out there that often were recorded well that i'm going to have to seamlessly record / mix / match new audio to on either end to complete it. i'm talking 100% audio here (no midi or instruments)

so here's the problem. i find myself in a different county now. all my old gear - mics, interfaces and instruments (gits / basses) - used to record all of these existing songs is still back home and it makes more sense to rebuy where i'm at for a lot of reasons (time, money) vs try to get it all here (which would also probably require shipping it all back again at some point in the future doubling the cost and time). though i'm still using S1, going forward i'll now have an entirely different mic, entirely different interface, totally different acoustic / electric guitars and of course a different room to record in. i also used to use a preamp with an outboard compressor on many of those old takes as well.

obviously one option is to just retake every song with the new gear from scratch and maybe have the full song structure worked out and finished before i do that this time ;). the arrangements are fairly stripped down (2-3 gits, vox / background vox tracks, and maybe a bass) so it's not like i have tons of retracking to do

the other option is to punch in and out and record the new parts on either end. but i'm not sure if matching the gain gain and tonality of the new parts to the original recordings is going to be too difficult considering i'm using entirely new everything. matching the gain probably not a big deal but the tonal blueprint of old vs new is likely to be quite different. so i guess i'm asking for any first hand experience regarding this before i potentially waste a lot of time doing it.

one thing to add is that my recording style was very basic in the past. i usually sat in the same position in front of the same mic playing the same instruments and singing the same way. so there wasn't much to tweak in the recording process proper once i found what worked well.

i also kept things very simple with the takes in S1 itself meaning i would prefer full takes to a lot of punch ins and overlap of audio events on a single track. this allowed me to *avoid* having to use the editor because i never understood or felt comfortable with it fearing that i'd be performing destructive edits on the underlying pool files every time i did a split, or having to worry about overlapped transient pops and clicks / cutouts etc etc. ;)

but i've finally (sadfully only now) really taken the time to understand the editor so that i feel comfortable enough to start using all of it's power versus limiting myself to full takes. so assuming i actually had the same equipment, my guess is i could do exactly what i want 100% with only new takes.

long story short, any tips related to *seamlessly* punching in and out of old material gladly welcome here as well. outside of setting gain properly, my study seems to indicate that the key things for me are probably :

- setting up preroll (auditioninging) so i pickup my playing a bit ahead and better in time with the already recorded material
- setting either the punch in point a bit ahead of where i actually want to record or the audio prefs "pre-recorded audio input" to a couple of seconds of time so i have recorded material to work with just before where i actually need the take to help eliminate initial recorded take playing errors and so that i have some extra silent space to drag the event marker when there is overlap of transients with the existing part
- finally, moving the adjacent audio event start / end markers when necessary to a position that prevents (hides) any overlapping transients and using cross fade on those overlapped transients if and when necessary.

i feel pretty well-versed in how the s1 comp takes work once they're recorded so my call for tips is mostly about seamlessly recording overdubs in the first place (better timing / synch with original takes) and then dealing with overlapped audio transients when you try to blend everything (new with old) together.

sorry for the long post. just trying to be clear

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by Bbd on Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:08 am
Since you said your old stuff is pretty basic and simple, you really should just start over.
You can create a new song and bring in the old tracks for reference but you need to start over and play to a click. It will be well worth it in the long run to do it right from this point forward.

Bbd

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by presobr010 on Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:08 pm
Bbd wroteSince you said your old stuff is pretty basic and simple, you really should just start over.
You can create a new song and bring in the old tracks for reference but you need to start over and play to a click. It will be well worth it in the long run to do it right from this point forward.


yeah i'm thinking that's probably going to be the case. while i initially had committed to using a click for all newly recorded material, with some of the new tools out there to automatically tempo map and the fact that i now understand how to tempo map manually if it comes to it, the thought of recording to a click just doesn't seem appealing to me. i prefer the slight variation that comes with a slight drift in tempo vs the mechanical feel of the click. it just doesn't feel natural to me to work that way.

thx for the input

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by Bbd on Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:16 pm
Whatever suits you best is the way to go.
I look at the production as a whole. If it were jazz, I would not consider a click track.
For most everything, if you are good at playing with a click, there is so much possibility enabled.
Conductors direct an orchestra so there is "time keeping" there.
Yes, you could use tempo mapping which I am a firm believer in. But when you are talking about not only working with tracks that need new beginning and endings that were not synced to a click, you just will have much more issues to contend with. Your call of course.
Hey, why not play the old songs live with the new sections? Then you get the updated song with your feel and can tempo map that.
:|

Bbd

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by Steve Carter on Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:21 pm
Hi....

Reading your post I got the impression (probably wrongly) that you're thinking in terms of recording new sections on the same tracks as the original recordings, which of course is totally unnecessary as S1 allows you as many tracks and takes as your computer can handle - so just plough ahead and use comping/editing to blend the old with the new keeping things on individual tracks for mixing.

You could use 'tempo matching' on the existing recorded sections to keep the less rigid feel leaving the new sections on a straight tempo (or varying tempo/s to suit your preference) - but you don't necessarily have to unless you are planning to add drum tracks from your EZ/Superior drummer that you want to sync with the old stuff.

Regarding the tonality/timbre/ambience differences between the old and new takes it could be fiendishly difficult to match them precisely. I think I would just treat the old tracks/takes for what they are (separate entities) within the final song using fx (eq/reverb etc.) as required, to 'glue' the pieces together maybe using fx sends/busses to put common treatments across old and new tracks simultaneously.

Good luck - sounds like a fun project....
Just seen Bbd's post, which is similar but leaving this here....

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by roland1 on Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:58 pm
You can find youtube videos showing you how to adjust the song's tempo to the tempo of your previously recorded material. So if you like the feel of it, you can record all the new tracks with the click following the old tracks' tempo.

The truth is out there. :)

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by presobr010 on Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:48 am
thanks for the input everybody. it's pretty much in alignment with what i was thinking and where i am heading with this. as stated in my original post, i was somewhat in the dark about using even the basic audio editing features in the past so it really limited the way i recorded. taking the time to really learn the tools, basic editing and how they effect the underlying pool files has been a real revelation at how much power is really there to resurrect these old recordings and pick up a lot of it where i left off. i wish i had taken the time to learn this better early on! feel free to add any other thoughts if anybody has them

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by Lokeyfly on Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:57 am
Presobr010 wrote: i wish i had taken the time to learn this better early on! feel free to add any other thoughts if anybody has them



You've gotten great advice, and different approaches. Sometimes the "seamlessly matching" original material will be based in that material, it's quality, and its original feel, even tempo varience. My added point would be no matter which road you choose, track matching, or a complete do over, try to capture the original feel. The excitement, or element that drew you to wanting to go to it.

I'm sure a bunch here could tell you some ol' war stories about the do over didn't quite come out the same way.

But as some will also note, if handled with the same enthusiasm, you could make it even better. Just go into it, with that zest to making it feel great. Don't get too saturated in all the technical minutia, and try if possible, to do the song somewhat quickly. It can definately make a difference.

Just my 3 centavos.

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by presobr010 on Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:17 am
Lokeyfly wrote
Presobr010 wrote: i wish i had taken the time to learn this better early on! feel free to add any other thoughts if anybody has them



You've gotten great advice, and different approaches. Sometimes the "seamlessly matching" original material will be based in that material, it's quality, and its original feel, even tempo varience. My added point would be no matter which road you choose, track matching, or a complete do over, try to capture the original feel. The excitement, or element that drew you to wanting to go to it.

I'm sure a bunch here could tell you some ol' war stories about the do over didn't quite come out the same way.

But as some will also note, if handled with the same enthusiasm, you could make it even better. Just go into it, with that zest to making it feel great. Don't get too saturated in all the technical minutia, and try if possible, to do the song somewhat quickly. It can definately make a difference.

Just my 3 centavos.


great 3 centavos. i totally agree. thx!

Macbook Pro 2015, i7 2.9Ghz, 16G, 1T, studio one pro 2.6.5 evaluating 3.5, USB 3.0, thunderbolt 10G, Apogee Duet USB interface. EZDrummer / Superior Drummer

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