This thread split from Handbook thread to focus on issues.
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I have conducted my tests again (as per Niles in the Smash Latency Thread) Here is what I have found.
Before 3.5 the Test I did to see how fast a virtual instrument could respond gave 410 samples at 128 buffer. The best I got was 200 down at the native 32 sample buffer. Now with 3.5 and the Instrument Low Latency mode switched ON I got these results at various buffers. Also the 16 samples option has appeared now with my thunderbolt Focusrite Interface. I also tried various settings for the Dropout protection and got consistent results there. I also used Sample One as the virtual Instrument with Niles' click sound as the reference waveform. The power switch for this was green as well in Low Latency Instrument mode. 128 = 210 samples, 64 = 340 samples, 32 = 240 samples and 16 = 200 samples. Not sure what 64 was higher than the rest. Let us say 200 samples = 4.5 mS latency. These figures do seem a bit strange. e.g. 128 buffer being pretty good but the 64 buffer was way high. Now with Instrument Low Latency monitoring switched OFF i.e. native latency being used, Dropout ProtectIon set to Minimum or i.e. OFF not being used, I got these results and they are consistent every time. 16 = 130 samples, 32= 170 samples, 64 = 170 samples, 128 = 410 samples. These are pretty consistent as per pre 3.5 but I think in my case the sheer fact that the 16 samples buffer option is now available it has just dropped this down one step further. 130 samples = 2.9 mS. I am feeling it very fast here in terms of response. I am getting no clicks or pops at this setting either.
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I'm getting noises when using fader automation on the master fader... The noise is essentially the audio at 0 db. (no attenuation) for a very short amount of time. The shortness of the error makes it sound a bit like a "pop".
Anyone else seeing this? Here are some particulars to this: When I set Dropout Protection to Minimum or Low, I don't get noise/popping.. When I set Dropout Protection to High or Maximum, I do get the issue. I also have "Process Precision" set to 64 bit, and when I set that down to 32 bit, the problem is at least lessened...if not removed. It's fairly easy to replicate. Drop some audio to a track. Create some automation on the master fader. I used a very slow (30 second) fade out and back in using only 3 automation points. The issue will present itself on both playback and the resulting mixdown file. It happens with or without a control surface present. I haven't yet tested whether this happens on channel automation too, I only had a short time to test it today. |
Morticia wroteWhen you say performance do you mean ability to play many tracks/plugins or latency? That was me sorry hit wrong button. Should have been my edits in your reply via my post. Instead I edited your post. Moving too fast today. Hardware monitoring is slightly better than the low latency monitoring ? Do you have both blue and green Zs or are you talking about your direct monitor knob on the device? Good debug.
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mikemanthei wroteI'm getting noises when using fader automation on the master fader... The noise is essentially the audio at 0 db. (no attenuation) for a very short amount of time. The shortness of the error makes it sound a bit like a "pop". Do you think the key to this is 64 vs 32 bit Process Precision?
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jpettit wroteDo you think the key to this is 64 vs 32 bit Process Precision? I worked with it a bit again this evening, and it's still having the issue in 32 bit Process Precision as well. Very interesting.... |
After three days of trying out various settings on both my (mediocre) soundcards, I still haven't found a usable combination for this new feature, because when "Enable low latency monitoring for instruments" is checked and Dropout Protection set to anything above Low, I cannot switch between tracks without sound cutting off and the first core CPU load almost doubling. And in more complex songs, especially when DP is set to Maximum, the CPU metre is usually stuck at 100%. This is regardless whether Process Precision is set to 32 or 64 bit, though with 64bit it is worse.
Also, when "Enable low latency monitoring for instruments" is activated, I cannot use StrokesPlus with S1 anymore, cause it causes glitches in playback. (StrokesPlus is a program that sends keystokes via right click and a mouse gesture that I use extensively and is deeply ingrained in my muscle memory not only in Studio One but many other programs and Windows itself. It is indispensable to me and whenever I have to use other people's computers without it installed on them, it almost feels like I'm using a wrong hand...) So, while I greatly appreciate the reduced CPU load, global Undo/Redo, renaming sync between channels and tracks, and windows retaining their sizes and positions upon save (those last two may be small things, but will certainly reduce unnecessary annoyances and time waste), on my setup I sadly cannot benefit from this biggest new feature. A soundcard with better drivers would probably solve this for me, but I just cannot afford one at the moment or in the foreseeable future. I will just have to stick to using Studio One at 512 buffer size, the same I did so far.
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BojanKerkez wroteAfter three days of trying out various settings on both my (mediocre) soundcards, I still haven't found a usable combination for this new feature, because when "Enable low latency monitoring for instruments" is checked and Dropout Protection set to anything above Low, I cannot switch between tracks without sound cutting off and the first core CPU load almost doubling.The sound being chopped off when switching monitoring sources unfortunately is normal behavior with DP and LLM for instruments (very annoying). The high load depends on what channel is monitored (how many inserts loaded, if it's a multiple out VST etc.). For instance I have a sound card with decent drivers (RME) however when I monitor a Reaktor channel, while DP and LLM is enabled, the CPU strain is far more higher (doubled) than setting DP to Minimum (or 3.3.4). The DP tech just isn't very suitable for monitoring high usage instruments because the load of a monitored instrument (+ its channel inserts) is temporarily doubled. BojanKerkez wroteAnd in more complex songs, especially when DP is set to Maximum, the CPU metre is usually stuck at 100%. This is regardless whether Process Precision is set to 32 or 64 bit, though with 64bit it is worse.Is that with or without monitoring a track? Do you happen to use instruments with multiple outputs (Kontakt, Battery, SampleTank, Halion, Falcon etc.)? DP does not play nice with them when monitoring a track connected to the first channel of a multi output instrument because all channels + their inserts will (also) be placed in the low latency path. BojanKerkez wroteA soundcard with better drivers would probably solve this for me, but I just cannot afford one at the moment or in the foreseeable future.I doubt it. |
niles wroteThe sound being chopped off when switching monitoring sources unfortunately is normal behavior with DP and LLM for instruments (very annoying). Then I honestly don't see much point in it. Being able to view, edit and switch between multiple tracks/instruments in the edit window is one of the best features of S1 for me and one of the main reasons why I've switched from Ableton Live. Gaps in playback there, however brief, are way beyond annoying. niles wroteIs that with or without monitoring a track? With monitoring instruments. When it's turned on, any DP above Low, especially Maximum, is slamming the first core. Without it, it works as it used in 3.3.4, albeit with reduced overall CPU load. Which would be quite enough for me, but they were making claims of "smashing latency" and I'm just not experiencing that in any of my songs... niles wroteDo you happen to use instruments with multiple outputs (Kontakt, Battery, SampleTank, Halion, Falcon etc.)? I use Kontakt (Player), but I don't use it as a multi-instrument and its multiple outputs in S1 anymore simply cause I'm getting much better results (CPU-wise) when I load each instrument in a separate instance. niles wroteI doubt it. Hope you're right, cause even the lowest priced RME interface is way out of my budget.
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The point is to stop the cpu spiking and allow recording at a lower latency than before while not Transforming so often or compromising with higher input buffers. Does it have a cost in some cases? Sure. Does the end result outweigh the small annoyance of a temporary loss in sound when switching instrument monitoring on/off? For most, it appears to.
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niles wroteBojanKerkez wroteAfter three days of trying out various settings on both my (mediocre) soundcards, I still haven't found a usable combination for this new feature, because when "Enable low latency monitoring for instruments" is checked and Dropout Protection set to anything above Low, I cannot switch between tracks without sound cutting off and the first core CPU load almost doubling.The sound being chopped off when switching monitoring sources unfortunately is normal behavior with DP and LLM for instruments (very annoying). You using Reaktor at 176 Khz ?...If you change that to a more reasonable 44.1 Khz, you'll see a massive difference in CPU usage.. Anyways I decided to do my first little test with Reaktor's Rounds and various settings with Studio One 3.5's new options.
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However, I think have tracked down the issue: The device block size setting was not the same as the size of the audio buffer in my interface ( probably my oversight ) in V 3.3.4 I had this 'locked' to the hardware buffer - can we have that lock feature in the next update please ? It seems I spoke to soon. Although this improved things, I cannot play back anything that I have recorded using previous versions of Studio One without getting at least one drop-out or audio glitch, unless I set my audio interface buffer to a minimum of 512 samples. Even if I have saved the song in the new 3.5 format. I can play them all back without drop-outs in V 3.3.4 with the audio buffer at 224 samples in my interface. No problems with stems exported from S1 and imported into Sonar either. Funnily enough Sonar will use more CPU than S1 3.5 (average about 10% - 15% more) yet is far more stable regarding drop-outs than S1 V3.5 I have tried using the ASIO4all driver instead, it makes not a jot of difference. I have tried every combination of DP / LLM parameters, likewise no difference. I am on the point of un-installing V 3.5 as it is unusable. I don't see much point in sending in a song to jpetit as requested, as this is affecting * all * S1 songs with more than a couple of tracks. I notice that in the V 3.5 official discussion thread there is another user with Win 8.1 and a Roland interface with the same issue - C.LYDE wroteConsidering the length of this topic, I'm not sure what value this comment will have. I have run some side by side Windows Perfmon traces whilst playing back the same song in both versions and have noticed that the amount of disk reads / sec on the system drive are about 3 times as high in the V 3.5 trace compared to the 3.3.4 trace. Is this expected ? |
scottmoncrieff wroteYou using Reaktor at 176 Khz ?...If you change that to a more reasonable 44.1 Khz, you'll see a massive difference in CPU usage.. Good catch. I haven't noticed that... Yeah, those are some really, really "decent drivers". Even if his Sandy Bridge is overclocked to 5GHz, that's just ridiculous! Niles, could you do some testing at more reasonable settings, like 48 kHz? I am really curious to know if those dropouts occur when you're not making music for bats. And if they don't, I think I should start saving up for that HDSPe AIO.
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Morticia wroteHowever, I think have tracked down the issue: The device block size setting was not the same as the size of the audio buffer in my interface ( probably my oversight ) in V 3.3.4 I had this 'locked' to the hardware buffer - can we have that lock feature in the next update please ?
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scottmoncrieff wroteYou using Reaktor at 176 Khz ?...If you change that to a more reasonable 44.1 Khz, you'll see a massive difference in CPU usage..Obviously I was exaggerating to clearly show processing is doubled when monitoring with DP + LLM because a duplicate instrument is added to the LLM path. It's not about the numbers it's about the behavior. Check you own video and see what happes at 0.57 when the instrument is put in the LLM path. CPU performance of Studio One goes from ~13% to ~29% while Reaktor stays at ~12%. Anyway, here you go, 44.1kHz exact same behavior, different numbers. |
Thanks Niles.
I guess I'm losing track of the issue. Instruments cutting out when you switch between monitoring two different instruments? What is the purpose of that workflow?
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jpettit wroteThanks Niles.No, just one instrument. It's not a workflow (it's quite annoying actually) but it's how Studio One's new dropout protection system in combination with low latency monitoring seem to work. It looks like it temporarily duplicates the instrument to the low latency path as soon as you monitor (hence the CPU load, drop outs etc.). |
Actually I understand your point completely.
It is a side effect of hearing the plugin on the green path. Was that the point of the OP on this issue? I thought it was a switching thing.
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jpettit wrote Was that the point of the OP on this issue?No I was responding to: BojanKerkez wroteI cannot switch between tracks without sound cutting off and the first core CPU load almost doubling.However in my example some up-sampling setting distracted from what the post was actually about. |
Thanks I was looking at other comments.
BojanKerkez wrote And in more complex songs, especially when DP is set to Maximum, the CPU metre is usually stuck at 100%. moving on...thanks
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