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musicchamber wroteUpdated to Studio One Pro 3.3.4 and I have noticed that the Mute button when clicked on either in the track itself does not show being clicked in the console, also applies if I click the console Mute that doesn't show it being muted in the track channel. The mutes are working but they are not indicating that they are muted. This is happening with software instruments both vst and au.

Can anyone else confirm this?

Best
Scott

Yes me, however I've notice this from the previous, 3.3.3 update.

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by ronmacnutt on Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:07 pm
Mute functions and indicators working OK here on Win7 machine.
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by jpettit on Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:29 pm
musicchamber wroteI have noticed that the Mute button when clicked on either in the track itself does not show being clicked in the console, also applies if I click the console Mute that doesn't show it being muted in the track channel.
The mutes are working but they are not indicating that they are muted.
This is happening with software instruments both vst and au.

1:1 track:channel or 1:many track:channel?
If 1:many this is normal.

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by musicchamber on Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:12 am
It's happening on single track channels so 1:1

In the screen shot the CFX piano is muted on Track Channel but it's not showing in Console
In the screen shot the Mai Tai has been muted in Console but not showing in Track Channel.

mutes on tracks.jpeg

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by ArKay99 on Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:21 am
Maybe not related, but when using Solo In Place, after SIP is cancelled, some tracks will indicate unmute (mute red button goes dark), but the audio doesn't appear until the transport is stopped, or the problematic track is muted then unmuted again...can be a PITA if there are several tracks.

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by Funkybot on Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:28 am
I'm seeing the same behavior here. To reproduce:

1. Start with an empty project
2. Click and drag an instrument from the browser to a new track (I used UVI Workstation)
3. Click and drag Mai Tai from the browser to a new track (only chose this to closely replicate the above)
4. Mute the UVI Workstation plugin in the console

Result: UVI Workstation is muted in the console, but NOT muted in the Arrange window (expected result: it's muted in both)

5. Unmute the UVI plugin, and now Mute Mai Tai

Result: Mai Tai is muted in the console, but NOT muted in the Arrange window (expected result: it's muted in both)

6. Unmute Mai Tai, and Solo either plugin in the console

Result: Solo settings are in sync in both views as expected. The problem is only with Mute.

This is on Windows 10 x64, with the x64 version of Studio One.

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by musicchamber on Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:41 am
Funkybot wroteI'm seeing the same behavior here. To reproduce:

1. Start with an empty project
2. Click and drag an instrument from the browser to a new track (I used UVI Workstation)
3. Click and drag Mai Tai from the browser to a new track (only chose this to closely replicate the above)
4. Mute the UVI Workstation plugin in the console

Result: UVI Workstation is muted in the console, but NOT muted in the Arrange window (expected result: it's muted in both)

5. Unmute the UVI plugin, and now Mute Mai Tai

Result: Mai Tai is muted in the console, but NOT muted in the Arrange window (expected result: it's muted in both)

6. Unmute Mai Tai, and Solo either plugin in the console

Result: Solo settings are in sync in both views as expected. The problem is only with Mute.

This is on Windows 10 x64, with the x64 version of Studio One.


Thank you for going through the procedure. Glad someone else can replicate also - that makes me feel that I'm not on an island!

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by ronmacnutt on Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:37 pm
Using funkybot's procedure I can confirm the fault using latest version x64 WIN7 and S1.
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by Jemusic on Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:28 pm
I get the same behaviour too on Windows and Mac. But perhaps its not a fault per se I don't think. The fact is that if you mute either of these tracks in either place the tracks get muted. That is what is really important here. For either MaiTai or the other VST you are using. Yes it probably would be better of muting was indicated in both spots but it still works fine.

What does work is the red Mute widget down on the lower left corner of the arrange window. That will light when any muting is taking place and that is where I prefer to look. It is good because it tells you if any muting is going on anywhere be it in both track and mixer windows or not.

I sort of get it though. Like you may have 5 tracks for example feeding one virtual instrument. Think of the mixer muting is being the ultimate audio mute. When you mute that then you hear nothing. But you may only want to mute two of the five tracks and still hear the other three. So they leave the audio mixer track alone because it is the ultimate mute remember. But now you have just muted the first two tracks in the track headers and you are still hearing the other three.

I think that is where they may be coming from.

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by jpettit on Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:02 pm
Thanks for investigating the mute behavior further.
I will not have time to further investigate until tomorrow afternoon.

Jeff is on the right track. Quite often people confuse the purpose of a channel in a track and there is clearly a case of many channels feeding one virtual synth with only one stereo channel out.

A couple of things people need to think about in the meantime.
Channels are for audio.
Tracks are for data.

It is best to do your test cases with monophonic synth first since they can only produce audio on one channel.
Verify and the inspector that they are in fact linked.
I this case you really may still have a many:1

Has anyone done a retro grade test against an older version or even 2.X?

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by Funkybot on Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:34 pm
Jemusic wroteI get the same behaviour too on Windows and Mac. But perhaps its not a fault per se I don't think. The fact is that if you mute either of these tracks in either place the tracks get muted. That is what is really important here. For either MaiTai or the other VST you are using. Yes it probably would be better of muting was indicated in both spots but it still works fine.

What does work is the red Mute widget down on the lower left corner of the arrange window. That will light when any muting is taking place and that is where I prefer to look. It is good because it tells you if any muting is going on anywhere be it in both track and mixer windows or not.

I sort of get it though. Like you may have 5 tracks for example feeding one virtual instrument. Think of the mixer muting is being the ultimate audio mute. When you mute that then you hear nothing. But you may only want to mute two of the five tracks and still hear the other three. So they leave the audio mixer track alone because it is the ultimate mute remember. But now you have just muted the first two tracks in the track headers and you are still hearing the other three.

I think that is where they may be coming from.


The same thought occurred to me, however, the fact that the Solo button comes on in both locations tells me that the Mute button should turn on and off in sync too. That's why I specifically pointed out the solo behavior in my steps above. If this were a "mixer channels are different than instruments" thing, then the Mute and Solo buttons would both behave the same way. The fact that the Solo button stays in sync in both views but the Mute button does not, tells me it's not intentional.

As a slightly OT aside on that subject: I've come to the conclusion that Studio One should include a track in the Arrange window for each and every channel in the Mixer view. This way everything would have a 1:1 correlation and there wouldn't be any question about what's supposed to be happening in situations like this. Studio One 3's mixer/arrange view organization just doesn't work very well with multi-instruments IMO in that having 1 track showing in the arrange view that could have 20 channels in the mixer just creates confusion and adds complexity. If you had 20 tracks in both, the problem of keeping things ordered between the two views would be resolved instantly. I honestly think some aspects of the channel sync behavior got worse in version 3 and not better (thinking specifically of how I can't place a bus between 2 multi-instrument channels in v3 whereas it worked in v2).

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by infrasound on Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:45 pm
I can confirm such a behavior on version 3.3.3 in Win10/64bit.
I can click the mutes independendly, sometimes only the mute button in the track itself (not console) actually mutes the track. Sometimes (isn't steady) the track mutes on track and console, but they are not linked. The same happens with linked busses in the console: it doesn't mute the track, even if the link is especially with that track/instrument bus. It happened with instrument channels/tracks as well as audio channels/tracks.

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by Jemusic on Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:47 pm
I also get why the solo works the way it does too. Because even if you have say 5 midi tracks feeding one virtual instrument with different data on them if you solo the mixer channel then the mixer channel gets soloed and all the 5 tracks also get soloed.

If however you solo only track 3 of the 5 tracks then only track 3 and the mixer channel gets soloed then allowing you to hear only track 3.

I would go so far to say this behaviour is exactly right and should not be changed in fact.

Notice how with audio tracks though things are on a one to one basis. Except if you have three audio tracks feeding a buss. If you solo the buss then all 3 audio tracks and the buss get soloed. Expected. If you only solo one of the three audio tracks though at the track headers or in the mixer then only that track and the buss gets soloed so you only hear the one audio track.

If you group either a bunch of instrument tracks or audio tracks what ever you do to one track in the group applies to all of them in the group. Also expected.

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by Funkybot on Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:14 pm
I'd personally rate this as a low priority item, and not worth a 3.3.5 by any means, but I honestly don't believe this could have been the intended behavior. If I click Solo in the arrange view, I see the solo in the console. If I click Record Arm on the arrange view, I see it in the console. If I turn on Input Monitoring in the arrange view, I see it in the console. The same is true for the Track Inspector behavior. So based on that there's no way I'm buying that someone intentionally designed the Mute button, and the mute button alone, to behave differently. It's far more likely that a bug crept in during some prior release, or that this was a gap/oversight that somehow went unnoticed until now.

I'd like to see it get fixed at some point, because now that I know about it, I'll notice it (and it's confusing). But it's really no biggie.

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by jpettit on Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:23 pm
This is repeating a conversation that we had and I believed was even diagramed 3-4 years ago.
Jeff is on track with what I remember and don't think there is a case for a bug.

It all has to do with many:1 and 1:many scenarios and the solo and mute have two different logic paths.

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by g&s productions on Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:14 am
Jessa wroteNo fix for the record monitoring bug??, ..Damn.

mmmh . what was the last working version? I think I have to downgrade...
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by Lawrence on Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:27 am
but NOT muted in the Arrange window


Like JPettit implied earlier, this behavior is normal for that design. Studio One works like a midi sequencer plus a mixer and the instrument pin outs that go in the console to create audio outputs for instruments are quite literally separate physical objects from the arrange midi tracks. We know this because midi tracks can exist with no mixer channels at all, and vice versa, instrument outs can exist in the mixer with no midi arrange tracks.

It's been a point of confusion for some users since 1.0 but Cubase users have seen it before, the "rack" paradigm where instruments in the rack are different objects from arrange midi tracks which can be pointed or redirected to any of them at any time. Think about a hardware keyboard plugged into a real mixer. When you mute the mixer channel the instrument is not muted, it's still playing, you just can't hear it because the mixer channel is muted, and vice versa if you mute the keyboard at the source.
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by Funkybot on Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:56 am
If it's a point of confusion and inconsistent with the behavior of every other button in that section (Record, Arm, and Solo), I'd argue it's unnecessarily complex and should change. Like the inconsistent behavior of modifier keys and their functions on various areas of the screen, these kinds of things go against just about every best practice of modern software UX design. These should be the types of things that work intuitively and consistently, and shouldn't require or result in forum debates to determine if a particular behavior is even a bug or not. When that happens, and apparently it's happened before on this one, it's a sign of a problem. If the mute behavior worked like the solo behavior, would anyone complain?

It's not a big deal but I do hope Presonus reads this and at least considers some tweaks to the behavior(s). But, any change would be a FR and not a bug at that point, so I won't belabor the point any further.

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by nikolaospitloglou on Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:49 am
Hey guys, is it possible to roll back to 3.3.3 and how?
I have many crashes on my system with the current version.
Thanks in advance.

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by Jemusic on Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:55 am
It is not hard. Log into your account and go to Studio One V3 etc. Look for the current large blue download button. Which is of course the current version. But under that there a few options.

View Other Systems
View Previous versions
View release notes.

Click on Previous versions and there you can select and download a previous version. It is interesting how people get different results with these things. The current version is working perfectly for me.

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