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Lokeyfly wroteMmv of course, but I found UNDO to be ultra useful


Sure. As do many others. It was the highest voted FR on Answers. That really has nothing at all to do with what Dan and I are talking about.

You have to stop viewing the new FR as a complaint or a dismissal of your personal preferences. It's not. It's just a new FR to modify it a little to also more cover the preferences of others.

That's mostly why FR's moved there, to avoid these circular meta discussions about features. Dan and I and the others are happy that you guys got what you wanted. We're now asking for something else that will have no impact at all on that, or your preference.

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by Funkybot on Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:01 am
I'd upvote a new FR if it was for 3 separate undo histories:

1. Arranger/Edit/PRV undo. History would show all undo actions in these views. This is where you'd undo edits, track events, etc.
2. Mixer Undo History. Covers faders, pans, sends, adding and removing of inserts.
3. Plugin undo history. Covers plugin parameter movement.

Ctrl+Z would always undo the last action regardless of which history it's in, but if you wanted to go back and undo an edit event without changing your subsequent console settings, you'd open the Arranger Undo History and do it there.

Best of all possible worlds?
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by DelTomix on Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:55 pm
I made an FR for this, there were a couple vague ones but I didn't feel they were really making the suggestion clear so hopefully this is helpful.

Focus selective undo, categorized undo histories

Niles asked one more detailed Local undo for focused event which is a cool idea, but for me - I think is too granular on its own and not really a categorization that relates to my workflow.

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by Funkybot on Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:44 pm
Upvoted!
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by Lokeyfly on Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:44 pm
Way to go Funkybot. And the subject here is completely open to ALLIANCE opinions regardless of what anyone says.
Edit- sorry, I meant "all", but my spellchecker chose "alliance". Maybe these spell checkers are smarter than we give them credit for.

Lawrence wrote:You have to stop viewing the new FR as a complaint or a dismissal of your personal preferences. It's not. It's just a new FR to modify it a little to also more cover the preferences of others.


What are you talking about?

 My comment followed the context of the thread. Sharing some findings about the new UNDO feature. New, old, good, bad, I don't have any concern or "dismissal" as you put it, about suggesting ANY FR is a priblem. Actually, I would expect you to know better. 


You might want to read my very clear  position throughout this thread. Or anywhere for that matter.
******


Loleyfly wrote: So how's the new life preserver [mixer undo] working out for ya?




Lokeyfly wrote: I'd say there's a general consensus to improve this new mixer undo, on a whole which currently acts as a complete action undo (Still, how good is that!), with the following improvement:
1. Divide Undo into two entities. Mixer (includes vst/instrument), and editor undo (original undo). Also make that switchable to either combine both (as is now), or be seperate entities).

2. Have the ability to switch either mixer and/or editor undo, as an option.

Until then, we are reaping the rewards of this great feature.



Still, others may not have used the new feature much, fold their arms, and just want what they want, like wanting more options. That's all good.


Pretty clear to me.

Lawrence wrote: As an end user, I typically have short term needs and I use whatever fits that need best.


Sounds like we have a lot in common on the subject.
Last edited by Lokeyfly on Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by dgkenney on Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:01 pm
Lawrence wroteDan and I and the others are happy that you guys got what you wanted. We're now asking for something else that will have no impact at all on that, or your preference.

We are in violent agreement on this :)

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by Lawrence on Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:30 pm
@Lokeyfly: Apologies if I misunderstood you there.

I just didn't understand the discussion, the purpose of asking anyone to explain it again or give use cases when we've gone all over it before in the multiple FR threads.

Apologies my friend.

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by Lokeyfly on Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:43 am
Lawrence wrote: I just didn't understand the discussion, the purpose of asking anyone to explain it again or give use cases when we've gone all over it before in the multiple FR threads


I never asked anyone to explain ANYTHING AGAIN. AND, this thread had a different purpose than FR's altogether. Not sure if it would take skywriter planes to make that clear to you. But I do accept your apology. You are typically very fair, and helpful, so please just be aware of the concept here. It is after all, a general discussion forum, and the post was never proposed to be a rehashed undo FR wjat do you want, post. My apology to all if that was not clear.

Any previous FR thread about undo, had little to do with the creation of this one. The premis here was none other than an around the couch conversation of asking folks, how they are finding UNDO usefulness in effect now. Have they had success with recovery. Btw, a picture of a Life saving ring was provided, but possibly not effective enough to depict "recovery" My bad. :(


With such a question, some potentially useful things can be uncovered:
*New bugs found, - Users often uncover their own set of discoveries, often outside the scope of initial beta testing. I recently spoke in another thread on how undo is behaving, with Rewire, depending on which program is prominent and if undo memory is held by both, along with plugins, etc. I also found one plugin not working within that chain of undo.

*Users realising the depth of the new undo process (which a few touched on,  and shared). TY

*Haven't gotten around to using undo yet, but are enthusiastic it's now in place for the time being.

*Haven't gotten around to it, and won't see much need for it.

*Etc. Etc.

Now if a few people wish to emphasise dissatisfaction, or simply recommend what's not enough for them (as some have) and use the post as a vehicle for feature requesting (opinions), I can't help that. And as pointed out, they would never be turned away if they even choose that perspective. It's effectively relevant, but there's obviously a better place for it. But you can't turn (but I want) away, either.

Going forward (if that is even possible), I was going to add at an FR that could make for some serious conversation, but it's looking like the thread has had its bones picked. So I'll offer that suggestion elsewhere not to deviate from here anymore than it already has been. This post is still on for anyone who wishes to add to UNDO recovery experiences.

Cheers.

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by Lawrence on Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:11 am
Again, apologies. Being human and flawed I may have misunderstood one of your comments later when the thread took a turn to people who don't particularly like this current implementation.

No thesis to follow. Sorry.

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by Lokeyfly on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:10 am
Thanks, and look forward to spirited conversation over it. Presently, and/or any time those would care to add their experiences.
:+1

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by matthewgorman on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:18 am
You can put me squarely in the "meh" camp for now, until such a time when mixer undo saves my a$$. :mrgreen:

However, what about a possible implementation similar to how scenes are handled with the mixers, and you can download the UC app for ipad to see what I am talking about.

When a mixer scene is saved, all parameters are saved to the scene. When a scene is recalled, there are then filter options that dictate which parameters are recalled. So for instance, on the series 3 mixers, I can recall scene for routing and faders, but leave fat channel out. Or only recall fat channel settings, leaving the preamps and faders zeroed out. There are probably 10-15 parameters that can be selectively recalled.

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by jpettit on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:39 am

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by Lokeyfly on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:47 pm
Mathewgorman wrote: You can put me squarely in the "meh" camp for now, until such a time when mixer undo saves my a$$. 
 

Loleyfly, that's the spirit. It's been saving mine, about 3 times in a sitting. Not some major bail out, but being thrown a gimme, is appreciated. Maybe I should be called Ol Fumble Thumbs.

However, what about a possible implementation similar to how scenes are handled with the mixers, and you can download the UC app for ipad to see what I am talking about. 


Liking it. My old Promix Yamaha has a vast save and scene editing.

I'll post the idea I had last night, shortly.

Anything and everything is good including lack of a$$ saving.

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by Lokeyfly on Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:59 pm
I was trying to depict  some method where users could drag selections off a global undo list, into something on the order of 2 or 3 fields. Each field is its own Undo category. Each field would also have its own key command syntax to undo/redo, or backward forward. That way, a undo selectuon list would eliminate a bunch of check boxes, and be in line with a richer and up to date UI. Something other DAW's are still waddling around in (DP, I don't mind saying, are still in the 80's when it comes to early Mac like laiden check box fields). Yuck.

We're better than that, here. ;)

Perhaps the main undo "picklist" could look like: (first observations)

MIDI main window - (Event positions)
MIDI main window - (fades/X-fades)
MIDI note editing- (edit note window)
Automation edits (*note, may effect mix fader positions).
Mixer (faders + S/M/Pan)
Mixer (effect on/Off & Sends)
plug-ins
Instruments
Routing
I/O selection
FX chains
Track Inspector (*may effect mixer & MIDI undo's)

The user simply drags these components in the above list into 2, perhaps 3 categories, their intended usage of UNDO. Naturally there would be some string identifier to make this work within each undo buffer. You can even turn those categories off or on. They go into effect, once turned on, or reorganized.

Also, perhaps an ambitious concept. It can get pretty deep recalling a hidden undo, especially minutes back, and even be visible. So some small visual indicator, or dashboard would show the edit in some basic graphic display  (i.e. like a X-fades changing back to its original posifion). Select the display to "Go There", or to select undo action, or redo.

There's no doubt there are some legitimate holes in this concept, but there could be a very near place for it. Especially on the drag & Drop UI front. The user can easily call up this visual dialog to edit, or view those parameters. Think of it as a small plugin window.

Most likely, draging one item might bring several based on they are a family string of items. That's understood. A smart UI would allow the user to easily see those related items.

Anyway, it's a thought.

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by DelTomix on Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:10 pm
jpettit wrotevote
http://answers.presonus.com/3073/mix-snapshots



Voted! That would be particularly phenomenal if you could A/B compare different snapshots.

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by Bbd on Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:23 pm
jpettit wrotevote
http://answers.presonus.com/3073/mix-snapshots


The two videos that show different implementation for Mix Snapshot in the FR are good examples of how this works for other DAWS. I know this thread is about all aspects of undo but the mix snapshot does not have to be too complex to work. I am keeping my fingers crossed that someday S1 will have this. For those that agree, please vote!
:readit:

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by Jemusic on Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:07 pm
Save As Versions are also pretty handy. Doing a great mix. Arrive at some excellent sounding point. Save as a version, move on. Keep on mixing etc. Save another version. Versions can be recalled pretty quick and your great mix comes back if you think you have have deviated which is easy to do. Isn't that what you are asking for? We sort of have it now. Also just Save the song with the title changed accordingly. That mix is also going to come back pretty damn quick too.

Versions are good because there can still be only one Song file but it may contain multiple versions. I do get the fact that in some software you can store parts of a mix and that might be handy too. But for the most part recalling mixes is possible right now.

Getting back on topic though. Yes mixer undo is rather cool and it has saved my butt once or twice lately in a complex mix for sure.
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by Lokeyfly on Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:43 am
Yeah, it's all good..Mixer Snapshots, Save as, undo, and levels of it. It's all part of retrieval or comparison. Something that can make for better mixes. Not that it's essential, but that each of these things help us take greater chances, knowing there's an easy way to recover. It's all on topic.

Nice thoughts. I had voted, and looked back. It was actually in my first Studio One FR.

It just makes sense. Thanks ahead/behind for contributing to the discussion, everyone.

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by Funkybot on Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:05 pm
I'm not sure how closely you guys talking about Mixer Snapshots have followed the development of Narech's Studio One X extensions library, but the newest release includes a basic, but functional version of Mixer Snapshots called Channel Presets. The basic deal with his Channel Presets is:

1. It's part of his "Scripts" package so cross-platform (Mac/PC)
2. Presets cover faders and pans and are automatically saved
3. You can save and alternate between multiple presets
4. You can name each preset and mark favorites
5. Single click to instantaneously alternate between presets (super fast Mix A/B)
6. Presets capture fader positions and pan positions
7. You can optionally just have presets save the mute/solo state of channels and ignore pans/faders
8. You can't re-order the channels after you've saved the presets without breaking the preset

All in all, until Presonus implements a better solution, that particular update covers a lot of ground and is VERY useful.
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by scottmoncrieff on Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:12 pm
Funkybot wroteI'm not sure how closely you guys talking about Mixer Snapshots have followed the development of Narech's Studio One X extensions library, but the newest release includes a basic, but functional version of Mixer Snapshots called Channel Presets. The basic deal with his Channel Presets is:

1. It's part of his "Scripts" package so cross-platform (Mac/PC)
2. Presets cover faders and pans and are automatically saved
3. You can save and alternate between multiple presets
4. You can name each preset and mark favorites
5. Single click to instantaneously alternate between presets (super fast Mix A/B)
6. Presets capture fader positions and pan positions
7. You can optionally just have presets save the mute/solo state of channels and ignore pans/faders
8. You can't re-order the channels after you've saved the presets without breaking the preset

All in all, until Presonus implements a better solution, that particular update covers a lot of ground and is VERY useful.


I'll hold my hand and say that I've never tried these plugin tools for Studio One before by it's creator, but tonight and over the past half hour I have, this being the one you've referenced, lots of little things to explore but in the case of the Mixer Snapshot feature it includes, it's pretty clever and does what users I think are asking for pretty much. It does however make me cry for a proper customisable UI that one can configure such as being able to drag and drop Macro buttons and menu's to the main toolbar simply and easily. I made dedicated Undo and Redo buttons, but they are stuck in the huge Macro Bar. I use a 3D app Cinema 4D, where I have undo and redo buttons on the top left of the main tool bar and where ever else I want them. I find it quicker to click undo/redo buttons rather than moving my hands to use shortcut keys. I play with my left hand on the midi keyboard...move mouse, and twiddle knobs with my right.

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