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This was a massive undertaking in both composition and production and I learned a lot during the process of making this song. Studio One 3 really helped workflow and it looks attractive to stare at for 12 hour nights to boost!

You can read more about the song in the Soundcloud description. Give it a listen and let me know what you think! My weaknesses still show, but I know I can only continue to improve!
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by scottyo7 on Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:22 pm
Well this isn't my forte' but I've listened to a fair amount of classical and jazz. ;)
There's a lot of orchestration going on... wow I don't know how to keep track of it all.
I liked the change-up @ ~3:20.
It sounds fine to me... only thing I could suggest is maybe the horns sounded a bit loud at times for my taste.

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by davidlopez2 on Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:28 pm
scottyo7 wroteWell this isn't my forte' but I've listened to a fair amount of classical and jazz. ;)
There's a lot of orchestration going on... wow I don't know how to keep track of it all.
I liked the change-up @ ~3:20.
It sounds fine to me... only thing I could suggest is maybe the horns sounded a bit loud at times for my taste.


I come from a progressive metal background, but am still interested in jazz and classical as well so my approach may be fairly unconventional. I like busy pieces! 8-) Still learning how to write for all different styles, and I don't have a theory background so I'm sorta shooting myself in the foot there :P

Yeah, I had to make Session Horns Pro sound a lot bigger than just session horns so I tended to exaggerate them in the mix. I would love to one day have the Spitfire Audio symphony orchestra libraries! I actually made the conscious decision to turn them up a bit in the mix as they sounded a bit weak on some playback devices (like iPod headphones, which while not something you should conduct the bulk of your mixing on, is still something widely used and needs to be considered). In the future I made throw something like FabFilter Saturn on it to give it some artificial presence so I don't have to raise it as much
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by Bbd on Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:12 pm
Wow! What a treat! Great job. Hats off to wonderful playing, arrangement, mix and presentation.
I love the different moods and sophistication.
Going to listen again in the morning on my morning commute.
Wish you all the best with your upcoming release.
:thumbup:

Bbd

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by davidlopez2 on Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:09 pm
Bbd wroteWow! What a treat! Great job. Hats off to wonderful playing, arrangement, mix and presentation.
I love the different moods and sophistication.
Going to listen again in the morning on my morning commute.
Wish you all the best with your upcoming release.
:thumbup:


Thank you for the kind words! :D
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by victorlob on Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm
beautiful composition very relaxing to listen to. Are those canned drums, or real? thank you
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by scottmoncrieff on Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:09 pm
I could just about stick with it for 3 and half minutes, but from there on, it completely fell to pieces, everything was completely out of time with each other with no thought about synchronicity, progression, arrangement and really just blindly chaotic. It doesn't sound like anything was actually composed here, but rather just thrown together hap haphazardly here with random pre-recorded loops. Sorry, I just didn't like it. I'd suggest googling Hans Zimmer when it comes to orchestral music composition.

Nothing personal, just my honest opinion on what I'm hearing.

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by jpsbuk on Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:11 pm
I really liked the first half of this as it sounded like a good traditional orchestral work. I'm not too sure though what happened after the 3.20 point where the drums start and the off-timing parts come in .. it sounds like a totally different genre of music and doesn't fit.

If that is the way orchestral jazz is meant to be then my apologies .. to be honest I've never been one for the apparent 'randomness' of jazz :)

So back to the first 3.20 section, something is bugging me a little about the strings from ~0.50 to 1.30 but I can't quite put my finger on it. I'm wondering if it is the very quick release on the legato strings that make them sound a little synthetic?

Anyhow, certainly lots of good stuff in there, just a really bizarre combination of styles (to my ears).

Thanks for sharing.

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by davidlopez2 on Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:42 pm
victorlob wrotebeautiful composition very relaxing to listen to. Are those canned drums, or real? thank you


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by davidlopez2 on Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:49 pm
scottmoncrieff wroteI could just about stick with it for 3 and half minutes, but from there on, it completely fell to pieces, everything was completely out of time with each other with no thought about synchronicity, progression, arrangement and really just blindly chaotic. It doesn't sound like anything was actually composed here, but rather just thrown together hap haphazardly here with random pre-recorded loops. Sorry, I just didn't like it. I'd suggest googling Hans Zimmer when it comes to orchestral music composition.

Nothing personal, just my honest opinion on what I'm hearing.


Like I mentioned before, I come from a progressive metal background, which is cluttered with accents that don't line up, so that's where it probably stems from. One of my greatest influences is Between the Buried and Me and that band is extremely hard to digest for most people (I guess their influence cursed me with chaotic arrangements). I'm still learning this whole "composing" thing haha. I saw this piece as a collection of themes, perhaps like some kind of overture - with themes I will expand on in further detail and simpler arrangements, so in the context of an album hopefully it'll make more sense. I'm trying to work on my arrangement skills, but at the same time I kind of enjoy the fact that I'm straying away from convention, I just have to find a happy balance! Thanks for the feedback!

P.S. I NEVER use loops
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by davidlopez2 on Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:53 pm
jpsbuk wroteI really liked the first half of this as it sounded like a good traditional orchestral work. I'm not too sure though what happened after the 3.20 point where the drums start and the off-timing parts come in .. it sounds like a totally different genre of music and doesn't fit.

If that is the way orchestral jazz is meant to be then my apologies .. to be honest I've never been one for the apparent 'randomness' of jazz :)

So back to the first 3.20 section, something is bugging me a little about the strings from ~0.50 to 1.30 but I can't quite put my finger on it. I'm wondering if it is the very quick release on the legato strings that make them sound a little synthetic?

Anyhow, certainly lots of good stuff in there, just a really bizarre combination of styles (to my ears).

Thanks for sharing.


The legato patch wasn't perfect, but I actually didn't use legato too much as for when a note is played for a certain length, it's realistic for there to be a bit of space between notes, like a change in bow direction. The lack of legato might be what sounds weird.

Again, like I said in a previous comment, Between the Buried and Me cursed me with chaotic arrangements (combination of styles)
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by Bbd on Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:50 pm
Hey David. You don't have to apologize to anyone. Your creativity was very high on this piece. I loved the way you stepped outside. Very different and adventurous. Who cares if others don't understand it. Keep on it. We need more inventors like you in the world.

:)

Bbd

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by alexjason on Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:52 pm
I enjoyed listening to your piece -- even though I got lost now and then in the clashing, uncooperative melodies.

Very inventive overall. Interesting.

Some points reminded me of Copeland's "Fanfare for the Common Man".

Instruments sounded good to me. Very distinct and clear.

Really liked the ending -- the harp (?). Very peaceful, elegant ending.

-- Alex Jason
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by davidlopez2 on Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:32 am
Bbd wroteHey David. You don't have to apologize to anyone. Your creativity was very high on this piece. I loved the way you stepped outside. Very different and adventurous. Who cares if others don't understand it. Keep on it. We need more inventors like you in the world.

:)


Thank you very much, I critique myself much worse than anyone else could so it doesn't really phase me. I think it's still good to receive outside opinions as long as they're constructive. My professor also had some concerns for the particular section at around 3:20 so I suppose it just ended up getting away from me! I new it wasn't "perfect", but I felt I needed to let go of the piece and move on as I already spend many weeks on it (lots of time devoted to mixing and mastering). A core issue with that area is that I couldn't simultaneously compose brass for it as it would have killed my CPU so I threw it in after the fact, but ended up over composing the strings and especially the woodwinds to make up for an absent brass section at the time. I could have revised, but again, I just felt it was time to move on!

I will always write to please myself first, and one of those factors is my "compositional ADD", it really starts to bother me when something lasts more than 8 bars without variation for some reason :shock:

Thanks for the support!
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by davidlopez2 on Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:40 am
alexjason wroteI enjoyed listening to your piece -- even though I got lost now and then in the clashing, uncooperative melodies.

Very inventive overall. Interesting.

Some points reminded me of Copeland's "Fanfare for the Common Man".

Instruments sounded good to me. Very distinct and clear.

Really liked the ending -- the harp (?). Very peaceful, elegant ending.


Thank you,

The last minute of the piece actually ended up being my favorite part! So much so, that I'm going to split off the theme for its own dedicated song - that should be fun to write! I'll probably shoot for something along the lines of Kingdom Heart's "Dearly Beloved" style for it.

My main mixing plug-ins were FabFilter products such as Pro Q2, C2, Saturn, MB, L - I'd highly recommend all of their products as they are genius and totally changed the quality of my mixes!

Yes! The harp was simply the Kontakt Factory harp in flageolet, which has a really cool tambre to it. The piano throughout the entire piece is Una Corda from NI w/ felt padding, I think you can dial in a really nice cinematic sound with it
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by Lawrence on Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:39 am
Bbd wroteHey David. You don't have to apologize to anyone. Your creativity was very high on this piece. I loved the way you stepped outside. Very different and adventurous. Who cares if others don't understand it. Keep on it. We need more inventors like you in the world.

:)


Agree wholeheartedly. After continually listening to the droning on of EDM on the webz (obviously not a fan) this is a nice change. Good work. I actually liked when the syncopation "moved" to a more free flowing jazz feel where you have no idea what to expect next.

The definition of "not boring". :+1
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by matthewgorman on Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:55 am
David, sounds great. Keep doing what you do. Its about expression, and getting that out of yourself. There is no right/wrong.

Matt

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by oliver p. on Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:27 pm
I'm always open for any kind of music, with very rare exceptions. This tune kept my interest from the first to the last note and i liked the unexpected turnarounds you did. Specially loved how you finished at 6.57.... The mix sounds good as well on my stereo as on my headphones. Very pleasant to hear something different here..... Keep it going :thumbup:

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by jpsbuk on Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:23 pm
davidlopez2 wrote My professor also had some concerns for the particular section at around 3:20


lol - I could be a music professor :) (I most definitely am not though!) :|

I'm 100% an advocate of music being as varied as the people who make it and it's actually great that a medium exists where anyone can enjoy doing something that makes them happy in the knowledge that it can't hurt anyone else in any way at all. At the same time, if music is posted into a forum where people can express their thoughts then there will always be differences of opinion. Doesn't make any particular piece 'good' or 'bad' or any criticism 'right' or 'wrong', that's the beauty of music .. it's so 'variable' and personal :)

So, I loved the first half but not the second .. I wasn't saying it was 'wrong' nor that you should 'apologize' and you should certainly not feel the need to do so or to doubt in any way your talent or commitment.

:)

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by davidlopez2 on Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:32 pm
jpsbuk wrote
davidlopez2 wrote My professor also had some concerns for the particular section at around 3:20


lol - I could be a music professor :) (I most definitely am not though!) :|

I'm 100% an advocate of music being as varied as the people who make it and it's actually great that a medium exists where anyone can enjoy doing something that makes them happy in the knowledge that it can't hurt anyone else in any way at all. At the same time, if music is posted into a forum where people can express their thoughts then there will always be differences of opinion. Doesn't make any particular piece 'good' or 'bad' or any criticism 'right' or 'wrong', that's the beauty of music .. it's so 'variable' and personal :)

So, I loved the first half but not the second .. I wasn't saying it was 'wrong' nor that you should 'apologize' and you should certainly not feel the need to do so or to doubt in any way your talent or commitment.

:)


Oh, I'm not apologizing! I guess I'm just externally reviewing myself, you know, kinda speaking (typing) my thoughts out loud - bouncing off constructive feedback! When I say I'm "cursed", it's sort of a joke in which I know my stuff is a bit out there, but I just love the way it sounds. Between the Buried and Me wouldn't be one of my favorite bands of all time if I didn't love chaotic their albums were!

It's just important to consider outside opinions from those who just listened to it for the first time, regardless of their tastes as I've probably listened to it over a thousand times by now and just got used to how it sounds. That's how I will continue to grow as a composer!

No hard feelings to any negative feedback here, I look at it logically more than personally!

For reference, this is the sort of polyrhythmic, crazy time sig stuff I love. So you can probably hear a lot of influence I get with writing drums from this type of stuff:
phpBB [video]


And this is the style of sporadic arrangement that has been rooted in my own compositions:
phpBB [video]
Last edited by davidlopez2 on Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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