Routers, Switches, Cabling, Access Points, Repeaters, etc all discussed here
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My hardware:
4 - Studiolive R32's, tied together with an SW5E AVB switch, which in-turn is ran to an ASUS ROG Tri-Band Router.
Controlled via UC Connect with 2 laptops and multiple ipads.

I'm using this as an in-ear system for band and vocalists.

The problem:
I've been having bad issues with units failing to sync properly, and one or more of the units failing.
By failing, meaning that after booting up, and everything getting the green light, one of the units may have no sound coming from the outputs.
After a reboot, it usually fixes is.

I have the first unit set as internal on the clock, and the other 3 set to Network Stream.
Even when they are green lit, I sometimes (actually frequently) still have problems.
I generally always have to do at least one reboot during a rehearsal.
I've noticed that after the second reboot, and once it is working, the first unit will switch to Network Stream.
I've tried booting all of them up with Network Stream, but that doesn't help.

To give some details, the units are setup thus:

Unit 1: (BAND 1)
Audio Inputs from entire band
Outputs in stereo to half the band
Routing band inputs to units 2, 3 & 4 via AVB
Sending 1 stereo aux mix to units 3 & 4

Unit 2: (BAND 2)
No audio inputs
Outputs in stereo to other half of the band
Sending 1 stereo aux mix to units 3 & 4 via AVB

Unit 3: (FEM VOX)
Audio inputs from all vocalists
Outputs in stereo to female vocalists
Routing vocalist inputs to unit 4 via AVB
Sending 1 stereo aux mix to units 1 & 2 AVB

Unit 4: (MALE VOX)
No audio inputs
Outputs in stereo to male vocalists
Sending 1 stereo aux mix to units 1 & 2 AVB
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by SwitchBack on Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:08 am
Hi and welcome to this forum :)

First thing to check: units 2, 3 and 4 must receive from unit 1 on their first block of 8 AVB streams, even if you don't use those AVB streams in those mixers. 'Slave' mixers receive their clock signal from the clock master through AVB stream 1. This is until a dedicated clock stream is implemented, hopefully in the near future.

If this doesn't solve the clocking then see if removing the router fixes it. I'm not sure if you're supposed to connect a router to the AVB network. All mixers have a dedicated 'Control' UTP input for setting up a (WiFi) control network.

Still no luck then set every mixer to stand-alone mode and local clocking, disconnect them, reset the patching on every mixer to default, reconnect the mixers and reconfigure the clocking and patching, with the 'first thing' first.

Hope that helps :)
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by wahlerstudios on Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:26 am
If I understand it correctly, you are using one mixer in FOH mixer mode and and three mixers in Monitor Mixer mode and three of the four mixers are adding inputs to your network. It's a little bit difficult to rethink the routing of such a complex network without really seeing the routing of each mixer, but I can see one mistake in the way you have set up your network. You simply can't send signals from one mixer to another mixer! Each device ADDS signals to the AVB network and each device RECEIVES signals from the AVB network, which has 64 input streams and 64 output streams (64x64 matrix).

It is very important to understand how this network works and how the 32-channel mixers use the "presets" of the network. The chart added to this post is a collage from two pages of the User Manual, which show how the AVB sends are organized. The output and the input routing is basically similar, but the output routing has some more options. If you connect two devices only, the chart helps to find "what is where", but things are getting much more complicated the more devices you add. As I said, the AVB input routing is not very difficult and in a way "fixed", but the AVB output routing is extremly flexible and has a lot of options. And, there is the multiple patching option of AVB. You can send one signal to multiple outputs respectively inputs.

I think that you have to re-organize the basic structure of your network and really consider the INPUT SENDS (which device adds what to the network) and the OUTPUT SENDS (which devices takes what from the network). And yes, each device must be connected to the first AVB input sends bank (sends 1-8).

The SW5E AVB switch was not made for transporting Control signals. The MOTU AVB switch had that optional Control port and unfortunately the PreSonus web site uses a wrong picture for showing how to connect the AVB switch - you need to connect each single mixer with the router, so each mixer must have two cable connections (Control and Audio Network).

I have the impression that using four 32R is somehow overkill. A single 32R has 16 mixes - you are using 4 stereo mixes/8 aux mixes, probably as "stems" for the four "function groups" of the band. If you would use three 32R in Stagebox Mode, you could create the aux mixes and make them part of matrix mixes, which you can available via the 16 outputs of all devices.

Just my 2 Cent...


SL16 | 16R | Studio One Artist 5.1.2 & Pro 3.5.6
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by SwitchBack on Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:46 am
wahlerstudios wroteYou simply can't send signals from one mixer to another mixer! Each device ADDS signals to the AVB network and each device RECEIVES signals from the AVB network, which has 64 input streams and 64 output streams (64x64 matrix).

Hi Martin,

I don't think this is quite true. The AVB network is capable of carrying hundreds of channels and it is completely transparent. The 64x64 limitation is only for each mixer by itself. You can source the 8 AVB input blocks in a mixer from 8 different devices on the network if you like.

So you can have devices exchange signals almost at will, the only (current) limitation being that first block of AVB inputs in each clock slave device which must be sourced form the clock master device. So nominating the clock master in the network is an important decision! :)
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by wahlerstudios on Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:10 am
Well, I was picking up the wording "sending signals" to another mixer (the peer-to-peer model). The network "sends" signals, not the mixer, so you can make the mixer ask where does my signal come from, but you can not make a mixer "send" signals to another mixer. Each mixer has the option to select any network streams in any combination and order.

And sure, the options are nearly unlimited, but you really have to understand what you're doing. 😊

SL16 | 16R | Studio One Artist 5.1.2 & Pro 3.5.6
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by SwitchBack on Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:29 am
To be very precise: in a mixer you must also decide which signals you put on the 8 blocks of AVB Sends of that mixer, to be available on the AVB network. But you're right in that you can't force those channels onto another mixer's AVB input blocks. That choice is made from that other mixer.

Which is different for NSB stage boxes and for EarMixes too I think. Those devices get configured from the mixer sending the signals.
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by davidarmstrong7 on Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:16 pm
Thanks a bunch.
The input has been super helpful.

Sorry, I'm just getting back to this.

After seeing SwitchBack's first reply, I've been working all week to reconfigure everything, to get the first 8 AVB streams synchronized across all 4 systems.
(Thanks for that SwitchBack, I didn't realize that this was necessary. In fact, I couldn't find it in the manual)

Thanks Wahlerstudios...

Actually I have the 4 units working as individual in ear systems, with a mixing tech for each. (We have about 25 members performing at one time, between vocalists and musicians.)
There is no FOH system being used, as that is a Digico S31 and completely separate.

The 32R could be somewhat overkill as we have about 6 people on each with stereo output mixes, but leaving room for expansion.

So, I reworked everything this week, and got the first 8 streams matched on all 4 systems, but I am still having some "quirks"

One being, that the systems seem to have a mind of their own.

I've read that the first unit, should be set to "Internal" on the clock, and the other 3 should be on "Network Stream"
However, the first one keeps switching to "Network Stream" after a short time of running.

Also, after reading the manuals several times, I'm still struggling to understand the difference between "Standalone" and "Monitor Mixer" mode.
I've had less issues with random changes within the AVB routing in Standalone, but it's hard to get the units to stay in Standalone, because they keep switching back to Monitor Mixer mode.

When I set the AVB stream banks on the Network page, it likes to switch to random units, where I am wanting them to listen to the first unit for inputs.

To reiterate, Unit 1 is bringing in the band channels, and Unit 3 bringing in the Vocals. (units 2 & 4 have no analog inputs hooked up)
Basically, the 4 units are to give the necessary amount of outputs, as I only need about 40 analog inputs

I will try to get some screen shots tomorrow.
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by SwitchBack on Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:54 am
The key property of Monitor Mixer Mode is that the mixer which is switching other mixers to MMM gets exclusive access to the main output mixes on those mixers. That way you can connect the main output speakers to a monitor mixer’s main outputs (as monitor mixers tend to be near or on the stage) and those outputs will be controlled exclusively from the designated FOH mixer. A mixer in MMM also gets its clock set to Network Stream. But monitor mixers keep full control over their Aux outputs for monitor mixes (hence the name).

The problem you’re facing is that mixers remember the various network configurations they were used in and their status in those configs. Now you have to undo those status settings (because you should be fine with every mixer in Stand-alone mode).

Rather than resetting all mixers to factory settings (which would wipe the mixers completely clean) you’ll have to track down and reset every instance where a mixer is setting one or more mixers on the network to MMM. Try to be systematic with this: With all mixers connected find the first mixer which evokes MMM in any of the other mixers. From that first mixer set all other mixers to Stand-alone, then remove that first mixer from the network, find the next mixer which evokes MMM, etc. Then reconnect the mixers one by one in the same order, keeping an eye on the Remote I/O Setup settings of each mixer (resetting where needed and repeat where needed).

You’ll also have to check your Projects (if you use those to save settings) because they might retain Stand-alone/MMM settings too. If so then you’ll have to repeat the ‘set to Stand-alone’ routine for each Project and re-save the Projects. I hope you don't have many.

Happy hunting :)
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by wahlerstudios on Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:57 am
I see, new information... 😊 The four mixers feed six stereo in-ear mixes each, so there is a total of 24 stereo in-ear mixes. 32 stereo in-ear mixes would be possible. The mixers obviously 'share' 32 input channels plus the three stereo input channels and talkback. Each mixer has its own remote control, so they are all connected to the same router or have individual routers.

The rack mixer can be used in four modes. As mixer (which is the normal use) or in Stagebox Mode, Monitor Mixer Mode or Stand-alone Mode. Stagebox Mode means that the rack mixer is a simple input and output for FOH signals. Mute All and Headphone Out are the only functions available. Monitor Mixer Mode and Stand-alone are actually identical, just that Monitor Mixer Mode misses the Main L/R mix layer and therefore has the four effect mix layers set to prefade. Stand-alone has own gain setting options, USB is working in both modes.

It is said that one mixer in a network should have FOH permission and be the clock of the network ("Internal"). All other mixer should be set to "Network Stream" as clock. The FOH mixer should always be powered on first - but what follows then is not really foreseeable. It can (and will) happen that the mixers fight for more 'competence' in the network and especially Stand-alone Mode can cause a lot of problems. If you are using four independent mixers in a network, there is no 'central' control anymore (except the general network routing), which means that each mixer needs its own project/scene management and the problem is that the Series III mixers remember too much from previuos usages - like gain or network settings. Each mixer needs to be zero'ed out before creating and storing the project/scene(s) it will use then 'forever'. Obviously this has to happen with all four mixers at the same time, step by step.

I have seen some problems with Stand-alone Mode and it seems that the clocking gets lost when the mode is selected. There should be a green LED indicating that the mixers are synced. I haven't checked the situation with the new firmware version, so it might be that this problem is solved already. I'll have a look later today... 😊

I write this in order to show how complex it actually is to work with multiple mixers in one network and that there can be many reasons why things go wrong. It can also be that "Network Stream for all" (no FOH mixer) can be the best solution. This is something you can only find out by testing. And one more note. If you got the rack mixers in 2022, it can be that the mixers need a visit in a service station. There are problems with the "Motherboard", as it was reported several times in Facebook groups. But there is no official information available yet. The rack mixers delivered before 2022 should all be ok.


SL16 | 16R | Studio One Artist 5.1.2 & Pro 3.5.6
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by SwitchBack on Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:08 am
Stand-alone mode shouldn't be complicated at all, especially with each mixer having its own tech. It will be 4 mixers on the network, each mixer broadcasting 8 blocks of 8 AVB channels (empty or not). So that's 32 blocks of AVB sends floating around on the network out of which each mixer can choose 8 blocks for its AVB inputs. The only condition is that the clock slaves receive their first AVB block from the clock master. So decide which mixer is clock master (probably the one with the most channels to share), set the others to Network Stream and then it's every mixer for itself ;)

The only point of attention is preamp gains. There are several options for restricting control and for some gain independence between mixers but the easiest system is to agree to 'set once, then leave them alone'.
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by wahlerstudios on Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:41 pm
The green LED came back with the new firmware, so Stand-alone Mode is working again. I checked the channels that had problems with phantom power and they're just perfect now. I used a 32R in Stand-alone Mode on stage and a SL 16 as FOH. The 32R was also 'stagebox' for microphones and DI boxes. Channels 2, 3, 4, 5, 21 and 22 not working nearly killed a big band concert. But now everything looks ok.


SL16 | 16R | Studio One Artist 5.1.2 & Pro 3.5.6
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by davidarmstrong7 on Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:53 pm
YES! After implementing all the suggestions given here, I'm happy to announce that our last gig went off without a hitch.🙏

Thanks a bunch SwitchBack
Thanks a bunch WahlerStudio

Yes, I have the main system as the one that is sharing the most channels (Band 1) and I have it controlling the preamp gain, setting it to Post, thus also controlling the EQ, Comps etc.

This has been huge, and very helpful.

Will see how things go over the next few weeks, but you just saved me a ton of time in switching to something else.

I love how versatile these units are, and glad to find people that know them inside and out👍
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by dionstevenson2 on Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:04 pm
I have big problems with AVB and syncing between 32III Mixer and two 32R...the problems comes and goes away. Power on one time and it works, do the same again and it doesn't. No changes in equipment or wiring no unplugging etc... It shouldn't be like this.

We had a good run for a couple of months and then lots of problems again...

I note 2022-> If you got the rack mixers in 2022, it can be that the mixers need a visit in a service station. There are problems with the "Motherboard", as it was reported several times in Facebook groups. But there is no official information available yet. The rack mixers delivered before 2022 should all be ok.

Ours are late Nov/ Dec2021 Rack32R units. The equipment doesn't move, all new commercially tested Cat6 etc...writing...

Being in New Zealand there is no help anywhere - the Presonu support teams kind of help...but feels you are getting the runaround.

: )

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by wahlerstudios on Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:24 pm
That looks a little difficult. Some questions:

Do you use the rack mixers in stagebox mode? Why two 32R? Do you somehow divide inputs and outputs on stage? And which AVB switch do you use?

SL16 | 16R | Studio One Artist 5.1.2 & Pro 3.5.6
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by davidarmstrong7 on Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:00 am
So, after a couple months, many of the initial issues have been somewhat solved, and I believe a big part of this was due to switching to standalone mode for all 4 rack mixers.

However, I'm still having fits with the system.


There is one mixer that I have to do a second power cycle every time we come in for a session.
It's the 3rd mixer in the rack, and syncs just fine, but for some reason it gets no signal (analog, nor avb) on the first boot up.
I always have to power cycle, then it will start working.
This isn't a huge hassle, but it does shake the confidence of the performers about its reliability.
A second issue, is that it will periodically not send certain channels through AVB to the 4 mixer.
The AVB is routed fine, but there are about 3 channels that don't "route over," but the other 5 in that bank do.

I have a backup unit, and tried switching it out, but that cause huge issues, not sure why.
After switching it out with a second unit, and restoring from a backup of the old unit, I then had to start doing a second power cycle for all 4 rack units.

I wonder if I am just overdoing the system, with using 4 units, and inter-routing between them.

If it were just the power cycle issue, I would just deal with it and do such before each session, but the few channels that won't send audio via AVB causes an issue.
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by davidarmstrong7 on Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:06 am
A sideline question, and maybe I should create a new post in the SLIII category, but could I accomplish similar results to what I am striving for, if I were to get a S64 and use it with 2 or 3 R32's as stageboxes?

Would this give me the ability to have 64 mono inputs and 32 stereo outputs, all while being able to switching scenes on 1 unit?

The 64S has 32 aux buttons (linking them would make it 16 stereo aux mixes)
But, then I could control the other mixes from UC as I've been doing thus far.

I am wondering if this might be the way to go, that way there is a clear "master" unit.
It seems like the R32's struggle when using multiple in standalone, because there is no set master.
I am currently using 1 R32 set to "Internal" and booting this one first.
Then once it is fully booted, I switch on the other 3, set to network stream.
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by SwitchBack on Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:35 am
Interesting issues. I assume you appointed a clock master and have all other mixers receive their first AVB block from that master mixer. Then the need to power-cycle suggests that there may be a problem with the boot order and perhaps lingering 'alternative configurations' in the mixers. The mixers remember previous network settings but I don't know how deep that memory goes. You can try a factory reset to set things straight.

And maybe someone from PreSonus can chime in to explain how AVB re-establishes a network configuration and if the boot order can change the outcome.

As for limitations with the 64S: All Series III devices have the 8x8 blocks of 8 channels limitation, which means that the 64S has to pick 8 blocks of 8 AVB input channels from the stage boxes with none to spare. So with more than 64 analog inputs on stage (which you would have with 3 NSB32.16s) you'd have to make sure to use them in multiples of 8. You can't have a block with analog inputs from more than one stagebox.
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by davidarmstrong7 on Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:08 am
Yes, I have the first unit set to Internal, and booted up completely, before switching on the other 3.
And yes, I switched everything to where the first batch of 8 are the same on all 4 units.
(Really hoping not to have to do a factory reset😬)
Also, hoping to not have gotten a couple lemons.

The 3 stageboxes would be for the outputs, not the inputs.
I only need 48 inputs and outputs, so may be fine with only 2 stageboxes.
You mentioned the NSB 32.16 stagebox... can I not use the 32R's for stageboxes?
Is it optimal to use the NSB units instead?

One of my primary concerns, and the one thing holding me back from getting the 64S is whether it will be limited to only having 32 Auxes. (16 stereo)
Will the stageboxes expand that capabilities?

It would be nice to have some tactical control capabilities over the mixes, along with using ipads running UC.
I see that there are 32 aux buttons on the left of the console, so maybe that means it is limited to 32? Or that the 64S could only control the first 32, and the second batch could be controlled through UC?

Also, I like the thought of only having to switch scenes on one unit.

I'm thinking about going ahead and ordering a 64S from SW, and I have 30 days to test it out.
On paper, it seems like it would work.
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by SwitchBack on Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:56 am
The first AVB input stream doesn't have to be the same on all 'slave' mixers just as long as it's a stream from the 'clock master' mixer on the network.

Since you can get it to work I wouldn't say 'lemon'. To understand what's happening should also lead to a solution. We need more info about AVB's innards to find it I guess.

For the input streams limitation of the 64S it makes no difference if you use stage boxes, mixers or mixers used as stage boxes in your network: For the 64 mixer channels you have to use all 8 available input streams, and a stream is always limited to inputs from a single network device. But not needing all 64 inputs does allow for 'unused' channels in the 8 streams :)

NSB stage boxes have 2 AVB ports so you can daisy-chain them. That way you can set up a network without needing a separate AVB switch like the SW5E. That's one less element in the network that needs booting. Your current setup with the 32Rs must have a separate AVB switch in it, right?

With only one mixer in the network you'll be limited to the aux mixes of that one mixer. So no, stage boxes lack the capability to provide more aux mixes. If that's a worry then have at least one 32R in the network too (or as many as you need to cover the extra aux mixes).

Hope this helps :)
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by wahlerstudios on Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:23 am
"The mixer isn't producing audio through the main or aux outputs or showing any response to activity on the XLR inputs according to UC-Surface (no audio, no meters)"

This is known as "first cold start" issue and it's said that "you need to take them back to where they were purchased from for a small rework that is required that must have been missed". It's not only the rack mixers that have this issue, consoles can also be affected. When you have purchased a 2021/22 manufactured mixer model, which behaves strange, contact your dealer or open a Support ticket.

Four units (mixers) in a network should not be too much, but one mixer has to be the clock of the network and the three other mixers should be running in Stand-alone Mode or Monitor Mixer Mode. The problem is that each mixer recalls its own network settings. It's a different situation when you use a 64S and two 32R in Stagebox Mode. The 64S will 'recall' the network settings for the stageboxes (the entire network) and there is nothing that can disturb this configuration. No, there is one thing: if you use a rack mixer as mixer, make sure to zero out the rack mixer BEFORE connecting it as stagebox again. It still might be that the network routing has to be reconfigured though.

A configuration 64S/32R/32R means 64 input channels and 32 mix outputs. The rack mixers or the NSB stageboxes will NOT expand the input or output configuration. Using a rack mixer in Stagebox Mode has only one advantage over using NSB 32.16 stageboxes: you get two times Main L/R outputs (each rack mixer can receive a configurable mix for its Main L/R outputs). The NSB stageboxes have 32 mix outputs instead of 36.

SL16 | 16R | Studio One Artist 5.1.2 & Pro 3.5.6

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