My church has a history with dropouts in our studiolive networked sound. We use accompaniment tracks and as such have 5 earmix devices.
For a long time it was a mystery. Have a long history of interaction in support from Presonus on the issue. Nothing really seemed to solve it so it was for a long time a roll of the dice as far as dependability. But for some reason the problem seemed to go away. I assumed it might have been addressed in a firmware update somewhere.
Sunday we turned on the board and after a short period all our sound went dead. Our stagebox had a green light. The board could not see the box.
In the past i have had success in unplugging all inputs and carrying the stagebox to the board and using a short cable to get it to shake hands with the board. Then I take it back to the stage some 75 feet from the board and I get a blue light and all is well.
This particular incident that did not work. It never went blue. In the course of all of us standing around waiting for a miracle at some point before service was to begin, my volunteer sound man said, “Is it too hot?” I turned the box up and blew gently into the vent holes and felt hot air come out the other end. I continued doing this for about a minute.
I then turned the box back on and presto, blue light.
Our keyboardist usually turns the stagebox off after practices because we noticed that when we forget to turn it off we tend to have problems when we come back. But we never knew why. Sure enough the box was on when he came in that morning so it had been powered on since Thursday night.
Unfortunately my cool down tactic did not cool it enough to maintain operability because it shut down again after a few minutes on stage. Well we broke out the hymnals and went old school.
However after the end of service an hour or so later, I turned the system on and immediately got a blue light on the stage box. I’m honestly wondering if there is a heat issue here. I could be wrong.
I welcome any input. Apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere but I couldn’t find anything.
Hi, welcome to the Forum and thanks for asking here. This problem is very often discussed in Facebook groups, but because there are still a lot of people reading in the Forum, I would like to answer here. First I would lile to know what equipment is involved. Mixer is...? Stagebox is...? AVB Switch is...? Cables are (CAT5e/CAT6/CAT6A)...? The EarMix 16M use PoE?
The next step will be to check the firmware version of each single device. The latest & greatest is:
StudioLive Series III (all models) - v2.4.17466
NSB 16.8 - v1.2.16705
NSB 8.8 - v1.2.16705
EarMix - v1.2.16705
SW5E - v1.2.16705
The NSB stageboxes are not known for having heat or ventilation problems, but as some "fresh" air seems to have helped, this is indeed something to check. Can you use the stagebox outside the rack?
Yeah, first time I heard someone suggesting a heat problem with the NSBs.
The XMAX preamps are A-class so they do get warm even without a signal, but that should not affect communication. What it might affect (just speculation here) is storage of settings, clock speed in particular. I found that the NSBs sometimes struggle to sync when they have to connect to a mixer which is on a different sample rate than the one the NSB was on last. So if heat can affect settings stored in the NSB then that might be the one I'd be looking at. Or maybe you're using your mixer at both sample rates?
What I do when StageBoxes are slow to sync is toggle the sample rate of the mixer. It seems to send out a command that snaps the boxes out of whatever they were doing. Worth a try.
As for the temperature in the boxes try propping them up so that one vent hole is higher than the other. If that improves affairs then you might be on to something.
PS. I heard that PreSonus is working on a more flexible way of clocking the AVB network, so I expect my 'problem' to go away once they have it. Might fix your issue too
Thank you for your response
EarMix 16M 188.8.131.5205 no PoE
NSB 16.8. 184.108.40.20605
StudioLive 32 Series III. need to check the board to make sure of firmware. I may be behind on that.
We have an AVB which we acquired much later than the rest of the system as a possible remedy. But we do not use it as it appeared to do nothing to remedy problem at hand.
The stagebox sits on the open stage floor with adequate surrounding ventilation.
We use Cat6 LAN as provided by retailer for the main run to the board.
Last edited by markdeckard on Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks for your response. It is really necessary and currently also unproblematical to use the latest & greatest firmware. Series III has been amazingly stable up to now, but...
There is a fight going on what to start first. Some say the NSB stagebox, some say the mixer. What shoud be clear is that the mixer and nothing else is the clock of your network and without a proper stored project/scene, which includes all network settings, you will get lost. It should be the way that after the mixer has booted, you recall project and scene and everything (!) listens to the clock of the network.
Also inportant is that this project and scene should not be too far away from factory settings. which means that it should NOT be a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy... Store your current project and scene (individually!), then reset project, reset scene and reset Digital Patching. It may also make sense to power-cycle the stagebox. Then route the AVB Inputs and Outputs as needed and store the project and scene (individually!). Now mixer and stagebox should find each other automatically in the correct and recallable network settings. Including the Gain settings...
Only then you should start to add your sound settings and when the basic things are done, store this as "reference project/scene), which can also function as a "zero out" of the mixer.
A "back-up" of the mixer is not needed. Just copy your project&/scene and sound and effect presets to "local" (UC Surface on computer or tablet). You will never need "more".
Does that work? Changing sample rate is a little bit problematical, because it sets the stereo input channels and parts of the monitor/headphone section to mono. Hopefully the next firmwware update will correct this bug. The workaround is to power-cycle the mixer. Stereo will be back...
Short version: Yes.
Long version: We are talking here about network problems and not a traditional mixer/stagebox audio connection. SL mixer and NSB stagebox are "network" already, even if there is no switch or computer involved. The "clock" of the network is most important, but as there is only one "clock" (the mixer), this should not really be a problem. I don't have a NSB stagebox, but I use a 32R in stagebox mode and since an recent update of firmware mixer and stagebox ARE able to connect automatically with all needed settings. It does need a "zero out" of project, scene and digital patching of both mixers, then a power-cycling and then adjusting the settings including AVB sends and a saving of this project and this scene (separately). If the mixers do not connect correctly, I simply load this basic project/scene (my "zero out scene"), which tells the rack mixer to connect in stagebox mode. What I always need to check is that the clock is set to "Internal" (the mixer) and that the AVB sends are selected correctly. I start the mixer first, then the "stagebox".
I know that an NSB stagebox has no own "life", so it actually should not matter if it's running or not when the mixer boots. It's the mixer that has to send an impulse to the network, saying "I am clock", which can be done via UC Surface or by changing sample rate. The stagebox should react to this impuls.
I think you should check what works best for you - first stagebox, or first mixer. It helps to see what happens between mixer and stagebox by using two displays of UC Surface (computer and tablet). You need to watch the "Settings" page and the "Network" page with "Stagebox Setup" and "AVB Inputs".
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