Routers, Switches, Cabling, Access Points, Repeaters, etc all discussed here
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OK, I did the "cue button trick." That got me a wired connection to the MacBook. Excellent! At least now I can control my mixer!
however, still "limited or no connectivity" via wifi to the iPad or the MacBook.

Thank you for that bit of info @matthewgormon!
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by nickrites on Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:26 am
Great news!
Today I fired everything up. Turned on the MacBook without Ethernet connection and got a wireless signal from the RML!
Next I tried the iPad... nothing..... So I tried something I hadn't yet. I powered off the iPad, then powered it back on. And guess what, it connected.
Sometimes it's the simple things.
So, essentially, it was the "Dynamic mode" that got me going.

Thank you everyone for your input and help!

Now when the firewire adapter comes in, I can use the MacBook to run Capture, while controlling stage sound from the iPad as I planned.

Thanks again! :D
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by matthewgorman on Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:30 am
No problem Nick. I use the firwire connection for control as a backup to a network problem, so I always have something to control the mixer. Bear in mind, network failures are most often related to the router, especially wireless. Even the presence of security logins for the router do not solve the problem. When you get an audience in the room, and all their cell phones are trying to access the router, the router still has to answer the request, and can bog down. Also, signal strength degrades as the room fills up and the signal loses strength with all the interference.

Matt

Lenovo ThinkServer TS140 Win 10 64bit, 8GB RAM, Intel Xeon
Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bit, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor
StarTech EC13942 34mm Expresscard
S1Pro V2 , Melodyne Studio 4, Nomad Factory Studio Bundle, Waves , RM16, Studio 192, DP88, Faderport, Central Station Plus, Yamaha HS50 Monitors, Sceptre 6-8 Monitors, Temblor 10.
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by nickrites on Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:00 pm
Well, this router claims to be all super powerful, so we'll see what happens when it's put to the test. But I will keep the MacBook firewired just in case!
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by guyhawkins on Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:28 pm
I have been working to find the root of the causes of the weak connection and frequent drop outs of UC surface connections to console mixers and my rack mixers when wifi connected. The quick background is that I have tried many of the usual things to eliminate variables like being sure to not have anything connected to a mixer with a USB during these times.

No other software running. All Firmware...all updates...confirmed... and then redone just to be sure they weren't corrupted. Using UC surface only and not running any Q-mix for this specific investigation.

I have 2 rack mixers (32R and 24R) and a SL32III console all ethernet control connected to a wifi router (Netgear AC1900 Nighthawk) default operating mode (meaning DHCP enabled and active). I do have the 32R and the SL32 IIII console AVB connected for Stagebox Mode but that's separate, point to point, and is bulletproof...works really well actually.

All mixers set on dynamic network settings. 2 PCs Ethernet connected to the network and 2 iPad gen 4s wifi connected 5G. All 4 are running UC surface at the same time. All three mixers should show in the UC opening window and when UC is running they should all show in tabs up on top.

They do...sometimes, sometimes they drop...sometimes they say limited connectivity and disappear...sometimes I have to reboot an iPad or a mixer to get it to come back available. It's a very unstable situation and deserves an investigation.

I do have a support ticket in on this but I feel like the community may have some passion for finding the true root of this more quickly. For example, has anyone else noticed that the rack mixers all have the same Physical mac address ( 00-0a-92-03-02-01)? Mine do.

I feel like this may be part of the issue as I swap back and forth between mixers on the different computer and iPads. It definitely causes some router confusion if you are trying to create LAN IP reservations on your router in an effort to stabilize your network, like I have been trying to do. Just a discovery I feel is worth talking about.

When I have them USB connected from an individual computer to a single mixer, UC never seems to drop. That way UC is rock solid, but that defeats the purpose of having a rack mixer( or 2) on stage and using an iPad to mix from out in the facility. Anybody else seeing these things?

Guy Hawkins - gHawk Sound

StudioLive 32 series III, 32R, 24R, QSC k12, JBL 718s, Yamaha DSR 112s, Studio One Pro, Cubase, a whole lot of analog rack gear that I'm now considering resale value.
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by wahlerstudios on Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:46 pm
May I ask if you are using a Motu AVB switch? You probably know that your network will not work without an AVB switch. You also need to consider that all mixers need to be individually connected/wired

a) to the AVB and
b) to the router.

This means you have to run six CAT5e/CAT6 cables in your set-up (see the illustration in section 1.1. in the "Series III Stagebox Mode Addendum"), not to forget the two computers. At the moment it is only possible to get one console and one rack mixer to work together, not two consoles and not two rack mixers. Switching between two rack mixers is done in the "Stagebox Setup" menue of your console, not via US Surface. Therefore the physical address is not that important, but it also means that you cannot use two rack mixers at the same time.

Hope this helps.

SL16 | 32R | 16R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Pro 3.5.6
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by guyhawkins on Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:01 pm
Good points all. Thanks for the response. I am only using AVB for the one Console to 32R stagebox connection. It is point to point - no AVB switch involved (works perfectly!). I will go ahead and buy the PreSonus AVB switch when I decide to push the AVB network beyond that one connection and explore those expanded routing possbilities.
This is a really a deeper investigation specifically focused on the issue of UC surface losing its connection on a Ethernet wired PC, a wifi connected laptop and/or in my case 2 wifi connected iPads. I have experimented with all sorts of combinations of the above but continue to lose the UC Surface connectivity. Not always the same mixer. It's been all 3 at different times. I just have a curious nature in me that makes me want to understand why. UC surface is the only control available for the 32R and 24R so it is important to me to find a solution that is dead solid reliable...and possibly provide those details to Presonus Tech Support.

To answer your point though, I do have the 32R, 24R, SL32III Console and 2 PCs (1 FOH and 1 backstage) connected with Cat 6 to a wifi router (isolated from the internet) and 2 ipads connected on the wifi 5G signal. I just can't keep a constant UC Surface session connected on all 3 mixers through a show. There is no way that I am the only one struggling with UC surface dropping their connection, but I may be one of the few that have 3 mixers running on their UC surface at a time.
It is unusual to find the same physical mac addresses on any 2 pieces of equipment...so I would like to hear if others have that experience. Another thought I had is that I may need to use a Pro Managed Switch on my network to be able to disable the EEE energy savings function that is native (but not able to be disabled) on the unmanaged 4 port Netgear gigabit switches like I have in there right now. What do you think?
Has anybody used the PreSonus AVB switch for the control network only? Not for the AVB, but for the quality/reliability/compatability of PreSonus networking switch in a network running Presonus equipment. It's a thought... If I thought it would fix UC Surface dropping connections, I would buy 2 right now!

Guy Hawkins - gHawk Sound

StudioLive 32 series III, 32R, 24R, QSC k12, JBL 718s, Yamaha DSR 112s, Studio One Pro, Cubase, a whole lot of analog rack gear that I'm now considering resale value.
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by wahlerstudios on Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:50 am
I was checking the "StudioLive_Series_III_AVB_Networking_Guide_19102017.pdf" again, which gives a good survey of all aspects involved. It also explains what AVB does. If I understand it right you are trying to use three mixers at the same time, which does not work yet and anyway will not work without an AVB switch. The more "talkers" and "listeners" join the network, one (or more) AVB switches are needed.

Based on the wired AVB connection between the SL 32 and the 32R, there must be a second network for remote control, handling wired and wireless connections. I am no IT specialist, but I could see a conflict between the two ways of connecting. You should try to find this out by using wired OR wireless connections only, not both at the same time. Also disconnect your second rack mixer, which might be another reason for the disconnection problems of UC Surface. Additonally you should check your network cables, if they meet the required standard. The Networking Guide talks about this in section 2.3 "Choosing the Right Cables". It might also be helpful to try a different router. You should also check the network traffic in your area and if there are any conflicts with the addresses that your router supplies.

The PreSonus SWE5 AVB will not transport control information like the MOTU AVB switch does (the dedicated sixth port). It just adds PoE (Power over Ethernet) for the EarMix personal mixers. One AVB switch is enough for three mixers, but you need to wait for the firmware update needed to get the coming stageboxes working, which will join the the AVB network as additional "devices".

One question: Isn't it possible to run UC Surface on the PCs via an USB connection? This used to work in the time of FireWire and USB is only replacing FireWire.

SL16 | 32R | 16R | 16M

Apple routers | iPads | PreSonus SW5E & Motu AVB switches | Alesis iO Dock with AudioTools' Smaart RTA & Spectograph extension |
Yamaha S112, S15e, S10e, SM12, SM10 | Galaxy Audio Hot Spots | Mac mini | Lenovo Laptop | Studio One Pro 3.5.6
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by guyhawkins on Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:53 pm
You are always very kind to take to time to write thoughtful replies. Thanks.

I am using three mixers, but the SL32 III console and the 32R rack mixer are being used as a AVB connected FOH console/stagebox setup with the 32R in Monitor mix mode. Still I find convenience in UC surface for both of these even when they are a console stagebox combo. Like setting monitor levels from the stage on an iPad.

The 24R is also back stage, but it's is a stand alone rack mixer (I just needed more inputs). So I combine a few logical channels in submixes and send them (1/4"trs to XLR) from an aux out to an input channel of my primary rack mixer. Yeah,I know its not a true 42 channel mixer but it works pretty well if the combined channels need very little individual tinkering after being set up in those aux sends. But i do need to have access to it and for this mixer, the only way I have to control it from FOH is to use UC surface.
Since its back stage, that's hard to accomplish with a USB cable from 200 ft away. I guess I could always remote desktop to the backstage computer because you're right, it's true, if a mixer and PC are USB connected they are rock solid... UC never drops them. Still kinda sad since I should be able to just switch tabs right there in UC surface and have it available and also a bit sad that I feel like I can't absolutely rely on my iPad's UC surface so that i can walk the stage with performers setting monitor levels with them.

It is possible that my UC dropping connections is because it doesn't like have 3 mixers on the UC surface at once. But I read that this was something it was made for and it does have the tabs at the top so it is written into the software code to have multiple mixers on there at once.
I have a support ticket in and will let you know what comes of it in the meantime I thank you for thinking about my questions.

Guy Hawkins - gHawk Sound

StudioLive 32 series III, 32R, 24R, QSC k12, JBL 718s, Yamaha DSR 112s, Studio One Pro, Cubase, a whole lot of analog rack gear that I'm now considering resale value.
User avatar
by sjc193 on Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:31 am
What kind of router do you have? Make and model?

I have been using iPad mixing at least 5 years now. I prefer the iPad, I have no control surface and have no desire to go get one, love mixing on the iPad! I have found that the router itself can make a huge difference in the success of this type of set up. Regular, cheap, home routers from Walmart etc., while they can work, they don't seem to really cut it. I play at a Church on Wednesdays and they have a Presonus board (that I set up for them) and I had an extra router at my house so I hooked it up in there, I sit 5 feet from the router and 10 feet from the Mixer and I still ALWAYS have the "Limited Connectivity" sign on the iPad, it does work though. . . but I would never take that system into a busy bar and expect it to work.

But for my mobile rig I bought an ASUS RT-N66U router at least 5 years ago, at the time it was $160, now they go for $90 but they're probably outdated now though too. Anyways, the dang thing works everywhere I go, it is truly just a killer router. There is a limit though. . . there have been times when there are so many people crowded in a room that it starts to slow it down a little bit but that really doesn't happen often, we're talking hundreds of people and I just can't get to a optimal spot in the room cause it's just elbow to elbow. My router sits at waist level in a rack next to the stage too so in those situations I would be better off to get that router up in the air nice and high out of the rack and it would probably start working better, but I typically don't even worry about it, it just works every time. I can only imagine there are routers out there that out perform it easily nowadays too. But I also know that there are lots and lots and probably lots more routers out there that SUCK!

So if you're having trouble, definitely try a new router before chalking it up to a software issue. . .

spend some money on it!

Steve

StudioLive RM32AI
Rackmount Windows 8.1 PC Quad core 8G ram
ASUS RT-N66U Dual Band Router
IPad2, IPad Air 2, Studio One 3 Pro, 1 DBX Driverack 260
2 QSC KW 153's, 2 Turbosound TMS-1's
2 OHM MR450D Subs with Kilomax 18inch drivers
4 EV ZLX-12P's, 2 Yamaha S115V's
4 Behringer EP2500 amps, 1 QSC Amp
10 58/57 mics, 1 AT2020, 2 AT2021, 1 beta52 kick mic
2 e609, 2 Radial J48 DI's
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by matthewgorman on Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:02 am
It is possible that my UC dropping connections is because it doesn't like have 3 mixers on the UC surface at once. But I read that this was something it was made for and it does have the tabs at the top so it is written into the software code to have multiple mixers on there at once.
I have a support ticket in and will let you know what comes of it in the meantime I thank you for thinking about my questions.


I can say from personal experience that multiple devices, even across product families, all show up in UC and UCS as expected. At any given time in my studio, I have a Series 3 mixer, Series 3 rack, Studio 192, and RM16, all visible in UC and UCS, and can utilize tabs to switch to any of the devices.

I agree with the others that this may just be a router/signal strength issue. If the second rack mixer is further backstage, with more obstruction in the way, this could be a cause. One thing you may want to try, is to have the router in a more direct visibility to FOH, and then from that router, run an ethernet cable to the backstage mixer. That could give you better connection to the router from a wifi source.

Matt

Lenovo ThinkServer TS140 Win 10 64bit, 8GB RAM, Intel Xeon
Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bit, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor
StarTech EC13942 34mm Expresscard
S1Pro V2 , Melodyne Studio 4, Nomad Factory Studio Bundle, Waves , RM16, Studio 192, DP88, Faderport, Central Station Plus, Yamaha HS50 Monitors, Sceptre 6-8 Monitors, Temblor 10.
User avatar
by sjc193 on Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:59 am
Yup, definitely want all your devices connected to the router with ether cables. (I use dynamic IPs personally).

Only thing running Wifi should be the iPad (iPads/iPhones/Androids should be able to use several if you need to) but it is preferred to have all the mixers and computers themselves connected to the router/switch via ethernet hardwired!

Steve

StudioLive RM32AI
Rackmount Windows 8.1 PC Quad core 8G ram
ASUS RT-N66U Dual Band Router
IPad2, IPad Air 2, Studio One 3 Pro, 1 DBX Driverack 260
2 QSC KW 153's, 2 Turbosound TMS-1's
2 OHM MR450D Subs with Kilomax 18inch drivers
4 EV ZLX-12P's, 2 Yamaha S115V's
4 Behringer EP2500 amps, 1 QSC Amp
10 58/57 mics, 1 AT2020, 2 AT2021, 1 beta52 kick mic
2 e609, 2 Radial J48 DI's

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