Hi, and welcome to this forum. It's sadly true that PreSonus has abandoned their forums, but there are a lot of people reading the threads and you will get your answers.

Theoretically it would be possible to daisy-chain all items, but if PoE is important (which it definitely is), you will need two SW5E for the EarMixers. Still it is possible to daisy-chain the stageboxes because of the integrated AVB splitter. It can make sense - or it might just be more practical - to connect them directly.

But... - using stageboxes is "old thinking". The NSB stageboxes are a little problematical, because they will only work if all network settings are right. The AVB network you create has 64 input sends and 64 output sends, which can be patched in any order (within inputs and within outputs), so this can become quite complex. Definitely a better choice is a 32R rack mixer. More options, more outputs, more flexiblity (stagebox, monitor mixer, stand-alone mixer).

I love the EarMixers. They sound amazingly good and you can route a lot of signals to the two input banks, but many musicians do not really get along with "personal mixers". For most of the musicians QMix is more than enough, so it might be wise to think of a mixture of options. People who move on stage will not like personal mixers. They need a wireless solution. But drummers, keyboarders, guitar and bass players will get along with personal mixers.

Hope this helps. There is a lot more to say. Just ask your questions here. You will get an answer!

With that many components you need one and probably two SW5Es. PreSonus strongly recommends to keep 'hops' (daisy chains between source and destination) under 7 which you will clearly go over if not using at least one SW5E. The second SW5E recommends itself because it allows you to run all EarMixes from POE.

Routing could be from FOH mixer to the first stagebox to the first SW5E and from there to the first 4 EarMixes. Then route from one of the first 4 EarMixes to the second SW5E and from there to the remaining 4 EarMixes. The second stagebox can go on one of the 8 EarMixes or before one of the SW5Es. But this is by no means the only way to hook things up

With the 8 EarMixes you don't need so many other outputs on stage so a 32R is an option but by no means necessary. And sure, the setup has to be right but that goes for any audio network

Thanks for your input and advice. The reason we went with 2 nsbs is because we are trying to clean up some stage clutter, and this way it allows us to keep the backline cables in the back and frontline cables together in the front and not having cabling ran all over the stage. I also know that we will probably go wireless for out one female singer as she tends to walk around all over stage (currently using wedges for monitoring) while singing (and then grumbles about not hearing herself enough). we are going to in ears, and the earmix system seemed like the simplest way to get everyone personalized monitor mixes, while not having too many different systems going on at once for changes for the team as this is going to be a big change for us all at once, so trying to standardize things. the female singer will most likely get a wireless system at some point, but that should be able to be plugged into the earmix unit line outs and still used the earmix to adjust her monitors to taste?

We have issues with wireless gear at this location, so I am not sure how well adding a dedicated wifi for Qmix UC for monitor control for her wireless would work out. It took a lot of discussions and a few of us personally spending money to get the church to step up to help get this ball rolling.

Also, another question. I would def prefer to get POE for all the earmix units (fewer cables ran all over stage), but I am wrapping my head around how I could get the mixer connected to the 2 nsb boxes, and then use 2 sw5e boxes to get the earmix units connected.

My thinking is mixer, to 1st nsb, the link that to the 2nd one. from there connect that to the 1st sw5e, then link that one to the 2nd. this would give me 7 open switch connections for the 8 earmix. or am i missing a connection point somewhere?

The EarMixes also have two AVB connections (just like the StageBoxes) allowing daisy chaining to another AVB component. Can be another EarMix (which then needs its power supply) or a Stagebox or another SW5E. So going from first SW5E to EarMix to second SW5E you can use all 8 POE outputs for EarMixes.

I don't see any reason why this should not work: SL 32S -> NSB 1 -> NSB 2 -> SW5E 1 -> SW5E 2. The order doesn't really matter. All items feed signals to the same network and/or receive signals from the same network. Everything becomes part of this one 64x64 AVB matrix.

It's always good to clean up the stage, but that doesn't necessarily mean to buy NSB stageboxes. Subsnakes (analog or digital) are better alternatives. There are reasons why it's absolutely better to have a second *mixer* involved in an AVB network. One of the reasons is that you can double flex mixes and flex mix outputs from 16 to 32 (16 at FOH and 16 on stage).

I would recommend to not use too many EarMixers. A number of 4 can make sense, the rest will not really be used because there are alternatives, which musicians and especially singers will prefer. The less experienced or professional musicians and singers are, the less they will get along with an abstract tool, which the EarMix 16M is.

It's always difficult to give advice without not really knowing what the needs are. It would be helpful if you could you add a setlist with the channnels you use currently and what might come or go away in the future.

01 kick
02 snare
03
...
31
32
33/34 Aux In 1
35/36 Aux In 2
37/38 "Tape In"

Thank you both for your replies. My saturday became quite busy with doing things for the kiddos.

Currently we run these for channels:
1 Kick
2 Snare
3 Hihat
4 Tom 1
5 Tom 2
6 Tom 3
7 Overhead L
8 Overhead R
9 Bass mic
10 Electric Guitar
11 Acoustic Guitar
12 Keyboard 1
13 Keyboard 2
14 Keyboard 3
15 Vox 1
16 Vox 2
17 Announcements mic
18 Pastors headset
19 Laptop Audio L
20 Laptop Audio R
21 Phone Audio L
22 Phone Audio R
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32

As is, we have 10 open channels. We hope to add another guitar player in the future, so we can go 2 Electric guitars and 1 acoustic, and have another vocal singer or 2 as well. The church is in an old Theatre and has in my opinion good room acoustics as it has no flat walls, and a balcony with arched ceilings and we run a dual mono mains as most folks wouldn't know the difference of stereo. I am looking to add a couple of crowd mics at some point to use for the livestream send, and possibly to the monitors as well, but currently I am not seeing need to add in immediate future unless it gets requested by either the pastor or worship team. I truely appreciate your input that you have given me, and its made good food for thought on any future upgrades if we would happen to need them. If you have any other thoughts for me on this, feel free to add them. Thank you once again!

Thanks and sorry for "stealing" your time. It's really important not only to have enough space for development, but also to develop structures that do not limit what you are doing and intend to do. If you add the future musicians and singers, the ambience microphones and if you allow the three keyboards to deliver a nice stereo sound, your input list will look a little different. Suddenly there are only two mono input channels left...

1 Kick
2 Snare
3 Hihat
4 Tom 1
5 Tom 2
6 Tom 3
7 Overhead L
8 Overhead R
9 Bass mic
10 Electric Guitar 1
11 Electric Guitar 2
12 Acoustic Guitar
13+14 Keyboard 1 l/r
15+16 Keyboard 2 l/r
17+18 Keyboard 3 l/r
19 Vox 1
20 Vox 2
21 Vox 3
22 Vox 4
23
24
---
25 Ambience left
26 Ambience right
27 Announcements mic
28 Pastors headset
29 Laptop Audio L
30 Laptop Audio R
31 Phone Audio L
32 Phone Audio R

The 32S has three additional stereo input channels, so laptop and phone could be connected to Aux In 1 and Aux In 2. Tape In is also available for analog, AVB and SD card signals. Using the stereo input channels makes mono input channels available again.

As we now see that there might be up to 30 input channels, the question is how we get them reduced down to 16 EarMix input channels. Obviously a direct routing (channel 1 -> channel 1) will not work, so you will need to use a combination of channels and mixes. This is one example how to organize the EarMix inputs:

01 Kick
02 Snare
03+04 Kit (linked)
05 Bass
06 Electric Guitar 1
07 Electric Guitar 2
08 Acoustic Guitar
09+10 Keyboards (linked)
11 Vox 1
12 Vox 2
13 Vox 3
14 Vox 4
15+16 Speech, External Audio, Ambience, Reverb, Talkback

There should always be a stereo "bridge" for general input signals. Channels 15+16 might be a good choice and you can use two of the four "fixed" subgroups A-D of the mixer for the purpose of creating this mix and sending it via AVB to the EarMixers. Audio of this subgroup needs to be untrouted from Main L/R.

It can also make sense to use mixes as inputs. Here is an example based on premixes (flex mixes used as submixes):

01+02 Drums (linked)
03 Bass
04 Acoustic Guitar
05+06 Electric Guitars (linked, panned)
07+08 Keyboards (linked)
09 Vox 1
10 Vox 1
11 Vox 3
12 Vox 4
13 Announcements Mic
14 Pastors Headset
15+16 External Audio, Ambience, Reverb, Talkback

There are millions of options and can you route everything everywhere, but the best solution will always start with finding out what you want to hear - as drummer, as keyboarder, as singer, as... Take the picture of the EarMix and imagine the handling of input signals. If you were "Voc 4", would you be able to hear and what you need to hear? Or "Electric Guitar 1", or "Keyboards", or "Drums", or "Bass"...

chadgrieser wroteAlso, another question. I would def prefer to get POE for all the earmix units (fewer cables ran all over stage), but I am wrapping my head around how I could get the mixer connected to the 2 nsb boxes, and then use 2 sw5e boxes to get the earmix units connected.

My thinking is mixer, to 1st nsb, the link that to the 2nd one. from there connect that to the 1st sw5e, then link that one to the 2nd. this would give me 7 open switch connections for the 8 earmix. or am i missing a connection point somewhere?

wahlerstudios wroteI don't see any reason why this should not work: SL 32S -> NSB 1 -> NSB 2 -> SW5E 1 -> SW5E 2. The order doesn't really matter. All items feed signals to the same network and/or receive signals from the same network. Everything becomes part of this one 64x64 AVB matrix.

If you link the first SW5E directly to the second SW5E then you have to use a POE port for it, which is then not available for an EarMix. That's why you want an EarMix in between. That EarMix will take its power from the first SW5E and extend the AVB network to the link port of the second SW5E. That's the only way you can power 8 EarMixes from only two SW5Es

Thank you so much for your thoughts and insight into these potential issues and hiccups that i may have before i've needed to ask them. I appreciate the words of wisdom, and will use your information as guidelines and potential templates to get me where our church system is heading.

You're welcome. Coming from an analog system you'll discover an immense box of new options and most likely one or two ways to get lost in them. If you do then this forum is a good place to get advice

We have the mixer set up and have used it for the last 2 sundays. i want to say, that it sounds quite a bit LOUDER than the soundcraft gb4 we were using before this. other than that it is getting easier to get around in the more I work on it. I have a question that isn't network related but a recording to sd thru the onboard capture program. I am able to record 20 tracks at a time and only have about 14 including the main mix i record at a time. I have noticed that even though i select and record the tracks, for whatever reason I am not able to get the kick or snare channels to record. they show up in the recorded session tracks when i import them to my home computer but there is NO audio on either channel. I must be missing something but don't know what. any advice would be greatly appreciated.

The "Speed Test" will show how many tracks you can record. If the SD Card is formatted correctly, you will always be able to record 32+2 tracks. Kick and Snare not recorded could mean that the routing of channels 1 and 2 are not set to SD "Out" 1 and SD "Out" 2.

Thank you for that suggestion. where would i find those settings to check? i won't be back to the church til Wed to investigate so want to get my ducks in a row to make it so i can actually record and mix. I did not have any errors during recording and it shows green in the little box when i check it during its recording session.