PreSonus Forums

Ok, dumb question... When I send an input in to the RM32AI as Dante it appears as though it bypasses the preamp or at least is inserted after it. The fat channel effects still work and I can cheat by using the gain on a compressor, but that seems... hack-y...

Is this expected with Dante? In the Dante domain am I not allowed to gain up a channel like that and/or am I thinking/doing this wrong? On my AVB based systems the preamp works and I can add a touch of gain to any channel so I'm a pinch confused as to the thought process here.

The preamps are analog and only work on the analog inputs, they exist before the A/D converter. The Daunte streams are digital and are brought in right after the A/D converter, same with Firewire or AVB streams.

If the signal is a live mic then there would be a preamp somewhere that could be turned up. But it sounds like you may be bringing in recorded material that was maybe not gained up as much as you'd have liked, so yep, you have to use the compressor gain, I do the same thing in my studio one daw in post if I need a signal louder too, but I do find that I can only add so much before it starts to sound funny to me so it does make me wonder just how flat the compressor gain knob is. . .?

Steve

The issue I'm seeing specifically is indeed a live mic off of a Shure ULXD system. I can certainly turn up the output on the reciever. Just thought it funny.

I have the CS18 and have used inputs 33/34 as AVB to the system (before I swapped the card) and if I remember right those did get to use the preamp. And/or it has its own pre on the CS18 side. The rest of my AVB system allows for preamp usage. This is the first time I have seen the signal insert after the pre and not before it. Easily worked around. Just an odd design choice.

The CS18 does have a couple actual preamps in it to gain up those mics before they ever get sent to the RM.

I would think it'd be weird if you could use the preamp on a digital input, because they'd have to use a D/A converter to the pre back to an A/D converter again, that's a lot of convertin'

Steve

You can gain stage digitally without needing D>A>D conversion. I don't know if the Presonus board has the hardware/logic to do that, but it absolutely possible.

Sounds like a reasonable feature request to me.

As more and more people start bringing in digital inputs from other systems with daunte, a pre FAT channel/meter digital gain knob could probably really come in handy. Could save you running from one side of the building to the other to turn up a pre or output from a daunte device.

There is a place around here somewhere (maybe FAQ page or somewhere around there) where you can make feature requests and other people can vote them up, if it gets a lot of votes it becomes a higher priority for the engineers to implement. I suggest you go check it out and add the request if it isn't already there.

Steve

Bencredible wroteThe issue I'm seeing specifically is indeed a live mic off of a Shure ULXD system. I can certainly turn up the output on the reciever. Just thought it funny.

I have the CS18 and have used inputs 33/34 as AVB to the system (before I swapped the card) and if I remember right those did get to use the preamp. And/or it has its own pre on the CS18 side. The rest of my AVB system allows for preamp usage. This is the first time I have seen the signal insert after the pre and not before it. Easily worked around. Just an odd design choice.

In this case the ulxd probably should be considered the preamp and that the output level does just thst.

roblof wroteIn this case the ulxd probably should be considered the preamp and that the output level does just thst.

Oh yeah, that is a totally viable solution and very likely what we will do. Just sucks because the RM32, wireless gear and all of our routing equipment is nowhere near the control room. So any gain adjustments need to be made well in advance as once we start the show we won't be able to access them anymore.

We'll see if we stay Dante for the mics or move back to Analog. It is nice having everything stay in the digital realm, but small gotchas like this add up The upside of being able to route the mix-minus feeds right back to the IFBs directly through Dante is *freaking awesome* though. Removed a lot of A>D>A>D conversion!

Bencredible wrote

roblof wroteIn this case the ulxd probably should be considered the preamp and that the output level does just thst.

Oh yeah, that is a totally viable solution and very likely what we will do. Just sucks because the RM32, wireless gear and all of our routing equipment is nowhere near the control room. So any gain adjustments need to be made well in advance as once we start the show we won't be able to access them anymore.

We'll see if we stay Dante for the mics or move back to Analog. It is nice having everything stay in the digital realm, but small gotchas like this add up The upside of being able to route the mix-minus feeds right back to the IFBs directly through Dante is *freaking awesome* though. Removed a lot of A>D>A>D conversion!

Shure offers a remote control app for computer (ipad?) so that could work for this scenario using a cheap computer (laptop) if no other is available.

Aes67 together with aes70 is supposed to remedy issues like this in the future.

roblof wroteShure offers a remote control app for computer (ipad?) so that could work for this scenario using a cheap computer (laptop) if no other is available.

Aes67 together with aes70 is supposed to remedy issues like this in the future.

That remote app is a great workaround. The software is a bit clunky but very powerful. Sucks a bit that my A1 can't just adjust the gain structure on the fly without contacting E1 for tweaks (A1 doesn't have a computer or really any room to add one). But at least we can make the adjustment. I wasn't aware of the software before, so you really helped my workflow. Thank you for that!

I'm excited for the day that Ethernet/IP based audio is all flushed out. Dante is the closest I have seen, but there still seem to be a few gotchas here and there. Way, way, way more convenient than running analog audio lines everywhere though. I'll take a minor gripe with gain over dealing with analog runs, ground hum and signal loss/decay any day!

Bencredible wroteThat remote app is a great workaround. The software is a bit clunky but very powerful. Sucks a bit that my A1 can't just adjust the gain structure on the fly without contacting E1 for tweaks (A1 doesn't have a computer or really any room to add one). But at least we can make the adjustment. I wasn't aware of the software before, so you really helped my workflow. Thank you for that!

I've just learnt that yamaha and shure collaborated and the CL-series of mixers have native control over the ulxd gain control.

Quite nice (if you have a CL that is ).

I would love it if there were an agreed standard for preamp gain control over dante

matthewseymour wroteI would love it if there were an agreed standard for preamp gain control over dante

That would most likely be aes70 that will accompany aes67.

Yep, wouldn't it be lovely if it was widely implemented....

Did this feature of gain control got fixed with AES67?

No, aes67 is a pure audio streaming protocol.

Aes70 is still in the works and as far as I know not in the wild. ST2110 is also a part of all this in the end...

https://www.archwave.net/aes70

eduardogonzalez6 wroteDid this feature of gain control got fixed with AES67?