Discuss using Dante, Audinate Software and Dante enabled consoles, etc.
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Forgive my ignorance on this one. My understanding was that the option card on the StudioLive RM32AI was an AVB card, which we have (sorta) working on our AVB network. Doesn't play with any other devices, but it can see our AVB switches and the control surface can speak to the RM32.

Was tooling around today and it sounds like the RM32AI can also do Dante? If so, can I route Dante to any input on the board if I set it to 'network'? I assume I just need Dante Controller to perform the route? If that is correct, can I do the same for my main or mix outputs as well?

I would perform this test myself but we have an event coming up soon and I don't want to move the audio systems from our AVB network to our Dante / regular network. Wondering how well the RM32AI actually supports Dante and to what level I can route audio in and out of the system?

Thank you everyone.
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by roblof on Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:55 pm
You'll need to replace the avb card with a dante card so you can't have both.

iMac late 2015, Behringer X-Touch, M-Air mr18, X-Air xr18, x32 with Dante/aes67, x32-rack with Dante/aes67, s16 and sd16 stageboxes, p16 monitor system, TurboSound iQ-speakers, Waves x-wsg with SoundGrid server, Motör 61, BCR-2000, StudioLive 24, FirePod 10, Alesis HD24, Studio One Pro v3.5.6, NI Komplete 11 Ultimate, Nuendo 8.2, Ableton Live 8 Suite, Reaper 4, misc Line6 gear/software, True Temperament Frets on basses and guitars, Korg Kronos, Roland vk-7, Behringer Deepmind 12, Yamaha 02r.....
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by Bencredible on Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:58 pm
That makes a bit more sense. So with the Dante card is the control surface no longer an option? Or does that also work over Dante?
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by sjc193 on Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:15 pm
You can still use the CS as a control surface, you just would lose the couple of ins and outs (talkback/headphones) that are currently on it with avb.

Steve

Ps there is another thread on this same subject right next to this one currenty viewtopic.php?f=201&t=15976

StudioLive RM32AI
Rackmount Windows 8.1 PC Quad core 8G ram
ASUS RT-N66U Dual Band Router
IPad2, IPad Air 2, Studio One 3 Pro, 1 DBX Driverack 260
2 QSC KW 153's, 2 Turbosound TMS-1's
2 OHM MR450D Subs with Kilomax 18inch drivers
4 EV ZLX-12P's, 2 Yamaha S115V's
4 Behringer EP2500 amps, 1 QSC Amp
10 58/57 mics, 1 AT2020, 2 AT2021, 1 beta52 kick mic
2 e609, 2 Radial J48 DI's
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by Bencredible on Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:20 pm
So that would work... Although we do use the monitor out on the CS to run our control room speakers. I suppose I could get Dante based control room speakers and/or dante to analog media converters and then run them off of a sub-mix set to unity. Not super ideal. Open to creative options for control room monitoring (this is a live TV application, not live venue with the RM in an equipment room and the CS nowhere near that gear).
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by Karyn on Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:46 pm
Bencredible wroteOpen to creative options for control room monitoring (this is a live TV application, not live venue with the RM in an equipment room and the CS nowhere near that gear).

How about one of these? https://www.audinate.com/products/dante-enabled/focusrite/focusrite-rednet-am2

Karyn

-------------------------------------------------------
SL32ai, RM32ai, SL328AI x2, SL18sAI x2, all Dante.
Studio 192, Digimax FS, Faderport,
Sonar Platinum, Studio One.
http://refer.waves.com/dzDVn
Dante Level2 certified.
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by sjc193 on Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:04 pm
Karyn wrote
Bencredible wroteOpen to creative options for control room monitoring (this is a live TV application, not live venue with the RM in an equipment room and the CS nowhere near that gear).

How about one of these? https://www.audinate.com/products/dante-enabled/focusrite/focusrite-rednet-am2


Yikes! 400 bucks for a daunte headphone amp/line out (at first google), phew, I think I'll stick with Firewire for another year or two until the Daunte buzz wears off a little, that said it would've been sweet if they threw a preamp or even a line in on that so it could be used for a talkback mic (for those who use talkback mics)

And Ben, I'm not 100% sure what all ins and outs you get with daunte from an RM32, if it's anything like Firewire then you can't send signal back to an output on the RM32, only back to the inputs, but you can get all the inputs and outputs from the RM32. If that makes sense to you. Karyn would know the exact details I bet. . .

Steve

Steve

StudioLive RM32AI
Rackmount Windows 8.1 PC Quad core 8G ram
ASUS RT-N66U Dual Band Router
IPad2, IPad Air 2, Studio One 3 Pro, 1 DBX Driverack 260
2 QSC KW 153's, 2 Turbosound TMS-1's
2 OHM MR450D Subs with Kilomax 18inch drivers
4 EV ZLX-12P's, 2 Yamaha S115V's
4 Behringer EP2500 amps, 1 QSC Amp
10 58/57 mics, 1 AT2020, 2 AT2021, 1 beta52 kick mic
2 e609, 2 Radial J48 DI's
User avatar
by Karyn on Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:37 pm
I bet she would too.

Karyn

-------------------------------------------------------
SL32ai, RM32ai, SL328AI x2, SL18sAI x2, all Dante.
Studio 192, Digimax FS, Faderport,
Sonar Platinum, Studio One.
http://refer.waves.com/dzDVn
Dante Level2 certified.
User avatar
by Bencredible on Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:18 pm
sjc193 wroteAnd Ben, I'm not 100% sure what all ins and outs you get with daunte from an RM32, if it's anything like Firewire then you can't send signal back to an output on the RM32, only back to the inputs, but you can get all the inputs and outputs from the RM32. If that makes sense to you. Karyn would know the exact details I bet. . .


Sorta makes sense. Sounds like I can send audio to an RM32 input, but outputs remain analog. Although what I should really do is look at getting a Dante card and drop that in to the system, then see what shows up as a transmitter. If I can get mains and mixes, then I *should* be OK. Would be *really* awesome if they offered control room mix as an output.

Anyone happen to have a screen shot of the Dante Controller hooked to an RM32AI? I would love to see what I/O is available before going through the pains of actually switching from AVB to Dante.
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by Karyn on Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:16 pm
Dante Transmitters

Inputs 1-32 (tapped just after the mic pre)
Auxmix outputs 1-16
Main L-R
Mono (centre)
FX Sends 1-4
Solo bus
Talkback

Dante Receivers

Input Channels 1-32 (inserted directly before the FAT channel)
Digital Return (channels 33,34)

Karyn

-------------------------------------------------------
SL32ai, RM32ai, SL328AI x2, SL18sAI x2, all Dante.
Studio 192, Digimax FS, Faderport,
Sonar Platinum, Studio One.
http://refer.waves.com/dzDVn
Dante Level2 certified.
User avatar
by Bencredible on Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:11 pm
Karyn wroteDante Transmitters

Inputs 1-32 (tapped just after the mic pre)
Auxmix outputs 1-16
Main L-R
Mono (centre)
FX Sends 1-4
Solo bus
Talkback

Dante Receivers

Input Channels 1-32 (inserted directly before the FAT channel)
Digital Return (channels 33,34)


Ah, brilliant and exactly what I was looking for!!! THANK YOU! Also, a lot more than I thought they would give us access to.

I'm thinking I'll swap out the AVB card for a Dante card, grab the AM2 to drive my control room monitors and set that on something like Mix16 (set to unity and post across all channels). From there I should be able to tie in to my Tesira unit with a Dante card as well as my OMNEO setup. Digital routing across the board without a slew of analog cables running everywhere!

My biggest concern is latency of my control room mix but I don't expect it should be any more than 4ms delayed (I hope). That should be well below the ability to see lip sync drift.
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by Bencredible on Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:38 am
Just got the Dante option card for my RM32AI. Huzzah! Got to thinking though, it would be nice if there was a card with both AVB and Dante. Or barring that if the CS could support either AVB or Dante so that I can have the RM in a completely different location as the CS but still use Dante *and* have my monitors work.

The workaround of a Dante preamp will be fine, but solo PFL will be a nightmare/not possible. We can deal, but... It's like this was sorta not thought out completely. It makes me sad that by running Dante my CS no longer plays fully with my RM (control will work, just no audio signal flow).

Not sure if anyone from Presonus reads this forum, but that's my $0.02. Adding Dante shouldn't cripple monitoring functions or I/O from the CS and/or there should be a Dante version of the CS IMO.
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by Karyn on Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:41 pm
They have been saying for quite a while that AVB and Dante will work together "soon" due to AES67 and so it won't be a problem.

This is what Audinate have to say about AVB... https://youtu.be/E_E5JEVGH9c

Karyn

-------------------------------------------------------
SL32ai, RM32ai, SL328AI x2, SL18sAI x2, all Dante.
Studio 192, Digimax FS, Faderport,
Sonar Platinum, Studio One.
http://refer.waves.com/dzDVn
Dante Level2 certified.
User avatar
by roblof on Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:49 am
Karyn wroteThey have been saying for quite a while that AVB and Dante will work together "soon" due to AES67 and so it won't be a problem.

This is what Audinate have to say about AVB... https://youtu.be/E_E5JEVGH9c

Aes67 does not act as a bridge between avb and dante. aes67 and dante operates in a different osi layer compared to avb.

For this to work someone needs to provide an avb<-->aes67 bridge. Dante however have implemented aes67 in their firmware so that dante and aes67 can run in parallel on the audinate oem cards.

iMac late 2015, Behringer X-Touch, M-Air mr18, X-Air xr18, x32 with Dante/aes67, x32-rack with Dante/aes67, s16 and sd16 stageboxes, p16 monitor system, TurboSound iQ-speakers, Waves x-wsg with SoundGrid server, Motör 61, BCR-2000, StudioLive 24, FirePod 10, Alesis HD24, Studio One Pro v3.5.6, NI Komplete 11 Ultimate, Nuendo 8.2, Ableton Live 8 Suite, Reaper 4, misc Line6 gear/software, True Temperament Frets on basses and guitars, Korg Kronos, Roland vk-7, Behringer Deepmind 12, Yamaha 02r.....
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by Bencredible on Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:31 am
In my personal opinion I think PreSonus should just dump AVB and move completely to Dante. I currently have a medium sized AVB network (about 200 streams of audio) and it certainly works. Just so long as it doesn't need to speak to anything else. For example, the PreSonus AVB can't speak to the Avid AVB which can't speak to the Tesira AVB. So... What's the point? If nothing can speak to anything else, it is only useful in a self-contained eco-system.

The AVB switches are still lacking. The 'V' in AVB is still mostly unseen (at least I have not seen it) and there is limited / no layer 3 support. You can't just drop AVB gear on to any network and run with it, which is a huge problem, IMO.

AVB does offer one huge advantage over Dante which is the guarantee that all streams will arrive at exactly the same time. I know on my system the audio stream delay is 250μs end to end for all streams passing through. On Dante some streams may be delayed 500μs while others are delayed 2ms. While this isn't enough for most people to notice, in time critical applications it can add up and become a big deal. That said, I think in 99% of the scenarios out there this simply doesn't matter.

AVB has a lot to offer on paper, and very little to offer in the real world today. Dante is winning and I'm personally in the stages of migrating a large chunk of our digital audio from AVB to Dante. It is nice having my Shure system be able to speak to my PreSonus system without needing an interpreter in the middle. Maybe this will change some day, but that is the state of the industry as I see it today.

Anyhow, just my $0.02.
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by matthewseymour on Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:10 pm
I'm with you on this. I think AVB will die off for the most part in time, lack of compatibility, lack of take up, need for dedicated switches... There's lots against it.

The big advantage is it's an open standard and it's supported by the Dice chipsets that Presonus seems to use, so they can build networked stuff into their products with flexibility of doing what they want without having to pay licensing fees.

The Dante advantage is that it works, has significant cross vendor take up and because Audinate supply all the chipsets as a product thes guaranteed interoperability. Dante talks to Dante with no rival discovery mechanisms.

Presonus have said they expect the AI gear to be able to be discovered by OS X over AVB in the future, that would be nice. If AVB is never built into Windows though, it's on a losing streak. Still. I've been wrong before.
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by roblof on Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:09 pm
matthewseymour wroteThe Dante advantage is that it works, has significant cross vendor take up and because Audinate supply all the chipsets as a product thes guaranteed interoperability. Dante talks to Dante with no rival discovery mechanisms.

I expect all new dante cards to support aes67 in the future and many oem's will also upgrade their dante cards with this support.

Aes67 is a open standard and Merging have already released a free aes67 virtual soundcard for osx supporting up to 64 channels. I can only assume that there will be a follow-up with an asio driver.

I wouldn't be too surprised if we were to find linux support for aes67 within a year or two as all of the components already exists and 'just' needs to be tied together. I'm already enjoying some 32ch multitrack recording on my Raspberry Pi and x32 over usb. RPi's or similar boards will be a much better tool for multitrack recording than using a 'big' computer...

iMac late 2015, Behringer X-Touch, M-Air mr18, X-Air xr18, x32 with Dante/aes67, x32-rack with Dante/aes67, s16 and sd16 stageboxes, p16 monitor system, TurboSound iQ-speakers, Waves x-wsg with SoundGrid server, Motör 61, BCR-2000, StudioLive 24, FirePod 10, Alesis HD24, Studio One Pro v3.5.6, NI Komplete 11 Ultimate, Nuendo 8.2, Ableton Live 8 Suite, Reaper 4, misc Line6 gear/software, True Temperament Frets on basses and guitars, Korg Kronos, Roland vk-7, Behringer Deepmind 12, Yamaha 02r.....

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