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Hi!

Here is my attempt on a GM drum set mapping. I tried to follow Notion's notation style and implement the PAS guide lines. Also I followed what the Internet showed me as Sibelius idea of PAS in respect to woodblock etc. I'm not a drummer, but IMHO no extra symbol should be placed on the snare ledger. Also may or may not like my use of the circle symbol for bell/dome of the ride. If you don't, just ignore it as circle x will work as well.

GM.PNG


What I didn't get working are the wood blocks. But I cannot make out where and how they fail. Any input is appreciated.

In theory techniques could be used to enable cross-stick (side-stick) on snare and dome on the ride. But hw should they be stopped? "normale" would look strange IMHO and the question remains which of them should be stopped.

Masi

Attachments
General MIDI.zip
The rules files and a score file explaining the symbols and their use. Zipped because the file extension ".notion" is forbidden!!!
(11.22 KiB) Downloaded 550 times
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by johnnewberry on Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:46 pm
Nice work Martin.
    I haven't tried your ruleset but the image you posted looks pretty good.
There is one thing I see that may be confusing. The ride cymbal shares its staff-line with the high-tom. I guess if there was an issue a different multi-voice assignment would separate any overlap.
Modern drum and percussion notation is basic guideline and for general purposes.
Drum map legends and other footnotes about a score or performance is a good idea.
They no doubt help in Notion when the instrumentation lists and technique get large.
Drums and percussion are not my main instruments; however, I do play them and using anything close to standard drum & perc. notation makes it much easier to visualize what's being played and easier to edit.

martinkutschker wroteHere is my attempt on a GM drum set mapping. But hw should they be stopped? "normale" would look strange IMHO and the question remains which of them should be stopped.

_A rule statement that uses an assigned "Component Id.xx" is needed for instruments like hi-hat cymbals where the foot-close is used to stop and mute the other hi-hat samples.

As an experiment try loading a Notion preset drum pattern from the library.
First add one to an exiting Notion Drumset staff. Then cut/copy and paste the pattern into your drum staff.
If an extended variation of drum samples is available mapping them to rim-shot, cross-stick and other technique makes for a very realist drum kit.
Also, a very nice addition is to modify (at your own risk) the Notion ExpressionList.tpk file by adding L and R properties. With the proper sample sounds left and right sticks or hands can be mapped and used in a score which makes drum kits and percussion even more realistic.

It's rewarding to get drum mappings to work and it will lead the way to making other instrument rulesets. Nice work!

,Newberry

:arrow:
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by martinkutschker on Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:43 pm
The ride cymbal shares its staff-line with the high-tom. I guess if there was an issue a different multi-voice assignment would separate any overlap.

Yes, that's because the layout follows the rules for 6 toms outlined by Norman Weinberg in his article of 1994.

See also Tom Rudolph's document about drum set notation in Sibelius.

The point is that drums are notated with normal not heads but cymbals always with an x shape. I don't know why Notation fails to do that. I have never seen it otherwise.

Drum map legends and other footnotes about a score or performance is a good idea.

The problem is that to write the score easily you want the same symbols on the same ledger all the time. It doesn't seem to work that way in real scores. So if you want to print the score for a drummer but use say only a tambourine but only 3 toms, you would adjust the positions on the ledger lines of these 4 instruments.

Furthermore there doesn't seem to be a real standard for drum techniques (eg rim shot) 20 (twenty!) years after the mentioned seminal article.

I do play them and using anything close to standard drum & perc. notation makes it much easier to visualize what's being played and easier to edit.

What standard are you used to? And how does my attempt differ from it? Yes, the additional ways to notate china and splash I have made up. But I found even other variations on the Internet. My main purpose was to avoid excessive helper lines.

Masi
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by johnnewberry on Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:39 pm
martinkutschker wroteWhat standard are you used to?


I've tried to keep my layout as simple and basic as possible. I have a 5-piece drum-set in my workshop so I've been happy using what Notion software has as it's drum notation standard. I also separate percussion notation from drum-set staves.

I have not looked for the most recent of modern drum notation methods. For many, many years I've used Music Notation - Gardner Read. It turns out that Notion software developers also have used this book for references to accepted methods in modern conventional music notation. Gardner Read has written and focused on orchestral needs and doesn't go into jazz much. It does not cover drum-set.

I'd say I'm mostly interested in jazz and fusion. Yet I study, read and play modern classical music also.

The double bass is my main instrument. Notion seems to meet my needs well. It's not the most advanced in terms of notation methods; however, it seems to follow a notation standard for the masses IMO.

For the last few years I have somewhat merged the use of both Gardner Read and the MIT Guide to drum & percussion notation.
http://web.mit.edu/merolish/Public/drums.pdf

With these two references I've found a standard I can live with for now. And I'd like to again say that there isn't a standard to meet every situation or that is right or wrong.
You've done a nice job of mapping out the GM-drum set.
,Newberry

:arrow:
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by martinkutschker on Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:03 pm
A rule statement that uses an assigned "Component Id.xx" is needed for instruments like hi-hat cymbals where the foot-close is used to stop and mute the other hi-hat samples.


Do you have an example of rules including components? I've read about it in the docs, but I don't get it how to use them correctly.

Masi
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by johnnewberry on Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:09 pm
martinkutschker wroteDo you have an example of rules including components? I've read about it in the docs, but I don't get it how to use them correctly.


Try this from the Notion docs!

    <component id="2" />
    Set the component, which seperates out parts of the
    drumset.
    <component-stop id="1" />
    Set 1 for true and 0 for false.
    If true, then playing this sound will automatically send a note
    off to all other notes with the same component ID.
    Used for hi-hat pedal stopping an open hi-hat.

Ps. Not all playback devices/sampler sounds respond to MIDI note-off events as needed for this to work as intended!

,Newberry

:arrow:
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by martinkutschker on Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:13 pm
johnnewberry wrotePs. Not all playback devices/sampler sounds respond to MIDI note-off events as needed for this to work as intended!


I've tried hi hat and cymbals with a DAW and EZdrummer. This sampler doesn't need this feature as it stops sounds from hte same componant automatically.

BTW note-off events are ignored by EZdrummer. OTOH you can use aftertouch to choke cymbals. Here we are again ...

Anyway, do you know a (free) sampler which requires component ids in rulesets? I am willling to add them, but I cannot test it without such a sample.

Masi
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by johnnewberry on Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:01 pm
martinkutschker wrote do you know a (free) sampler which requires component ids in rulesets?


Most (multitimbral ) MIDI tone generators and Vsti's 2-3 ) recognize MIDI note-off.

Older hardware devices may limit MIDI channel 10 and the (drum/perc) instrument.
They usually are set to sustain the samples and will not respond to MIDI note-off.

The "component id" method in Notion is used to "stop" an instrument sound from sustain (aka) or similar to L.V. in Notion 5.

The component id method as I see it is an operation that can be used to stop a sound using for example a channel-change method combined with the component-stop statement to end a instrument sound by sending a MIDI note-off event to the needed instrument sound.

Just sayin'_
I'm sorry, if my description ain't clear.
Hope with help.

,Newberry

:arrow:
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by martinkutschker on Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:56 am
johnnewberry wroteMost (multitimbral ) MIDI tone generators and Vsti's 2-3 ) recognize MIDI note-off.


Of course they do. But from what I understand many drum samplers are different in that respect. They will sustain a note and ignore a note off. Furthermore they have an internal mapping that groups different pitches to "components" or "mute groups".

In EZdrummer I don't have to worry about stopping a ringing hi-hat (hand) if I send a note-on for hi-hat pedal.

That's why I am asking for a free GM drum compatible VST that doen't has this convient feature of dedicated drum samplers. Otherwise I cannot add it to the ruleset as I won't be able to test it. But maybe I test it blindly, ie I fiddle with my ruleset and see what Notion does when I export the score as MIDI.

Masi
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by johnnewberry on Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:31 pm
A soundfont player may be what you're looking for.
Here is a link that discusses the editing process.
http://musescore.org/node/13734


Here is a link to "sforzando" a free SFZ Player.
http://www.plogue.com/products/sforzando/

,Newberry

:arrow:
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by martinkutschker on Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:37 am
Right, didn't think of them. Anyway I checked the exported MIDI an components work like expected.

But I think rules are only a substitute for a drum map. The sad thing is is taht Notion has drum maps. Only they are within the program directory and cannot be altered. And not that I know of a way how to assign one of them to a drum staff.

Masi
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by drumlogik808 on Fri May 22, 2015 10:16 pm
martinkutschker wroteHi! Here is my attempt on a GM drum set mapping.


Hey martinkutschker, thanks so much for creating and uploading this! My prules set saved me so much time and frustration :D

Being a drummer myself, I noticed that the cross stick was not notated correctly, so I fixed it. Here are the rules again with the fixed cross stick notation. Cheers!

Attachments
General MIDI Drum Set Edited.prules
GM Drum Set Edited
(5.24 KiB) Downloaded 593 times

Mac mini (Server, late 2012) 2.3 Ghz Intel Core i7 with 16 GB RAM, (2011) Macbook Pro 15" 2.3 Ghz Intel Core i7 with 16 GB RAM, Mac OS X Yosemite 10.10.4 & 10.10.3, Notion 5.1, Sibelius 7.5.1, Logic 10.1.1
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by martinkutschker on Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:04 am
drumlogik808 wroteHey martinkutschker, thanks so much for creating and uploading this!

You're welcome.

drumlogik808 wroteBeing a drummer myself, I noticed that the cross stick was not notated correctly, so I fixed it

Thank you. But... How do you define correct? I've searched the Internet for the standard on drum notation but the only thing coming close to it was Weinberg's article for the Percussive Arts Society. Too bad he fails to mention cross sticks.

It was rather annoying for me to that publisher and software developers seem to choose any style that meets their needs (publishers) or software capabilities (developers).

Masi

PS: Really confusing for me was the fact that the position of the toms varies with the number of total drums notated in the score. Oh my. So you and up with a bunch of rules. Although in real life I have seen only a maximum of 3 rack toms and only rarely a second floor tom.
User avatar
by johnnewberry on Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:19 am
martinkutschker wrote Although in real life I have seen only a maximum of 3 rack toms and only rarely a second floor tom.

As a joke !
What about Terry Bozzio's kit?
Grand-staff notation, Non-rubato and nested-tuplet use in the scores of Frank Zappa?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDQE82ElyJg
100_0222.jpg


,Newberry

:arrow:
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by johnnewberry on Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:38 pm
drumlogik808 wroteBeing a drummer myself, I noticed that the cross stick was not notated correctly, so I fixed it

I guessing that your "cross-stick" method is for "sticks" in general term; however, a "snare drum cross-stick" technique uses an alternate note-head in conventional music notation.
cross-stick ex1.PNG
cross-stick ex1.PNG (4.39 KiB) Viewed 14620 times

,Newberry

:arrow:
Last edited by johnnewberry on Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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by Lawrence on Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:45 pm
Hey guys. Question from someone who couldn't write a decent score in music notation if you held a 44 Magnum to my head. :lol: I would look at it directly myself but I haven't re-installed Notion yet after installing Win 7 again.

The custom rules (or rules) editor in Notion, how good is it for creating those files? (I know those guys are really great, just wondering). Looking at the attached xml it seems pretty easily understandable, the formatting. I wonder if there's an opportunity for 3rd parties to create a rules editor that would spit out those xml files?

Good idea, bad idea?

P.S. I listen to a lot of things posted here. You guys write really cool scores, :+1
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by johnnewberry on Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:48 pm
I just use the Window's text editor.

,Newberry

:arrow:
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by johnnewberry on Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:56 pm
The Notion 5 Rules Editor is slower to work with.
It's hard to visualize the big picture. You can only see 1 or 2 rules at a time in the notion rules editor window.
Scrolling through the editors menus is slow. Typing it in is much, much faster.

I use the Notion rules editor for simple very short rule-sets and to tweak the settings of a score presently load in Notion that uses custom rules.

,Newberry

:arrow:
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by Lawrence on Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:01 pm
Ah, ok, thanks.

I was imagining a simple application that has all of the parameters built in, where you'd choose x, y, and z and it would spit out a rules file, or a custom Excel sheet that does the same thing.

I'll install Notion again at some point and give it a look see anyway. I'm one of those "office automation" guys so things like that always kinda stick out to me as potential opportunities.

Thanks.
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by johnnewberry on Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:14 pm
Lawrence wrote
The custom rules (or rules) editor in Notion, how good is it for creating those files?

OK! but not the greatest as I mentioned previously. A text editor is faster.

Lawrence wrote I wonder if there's an opportunity for 3rd parties to create a rules editor that would spit out those xml files?
Good idea, bad idea?


I don't think there are enough "Users" willing to pay for custom rules let alone an editor they may only use for a few different instruments.
If there was I'd think about creating them myself.

Back a couple years ago someone created and uploaded a Java based editor but I never tried it.
Notion's editor is better then that was I'm sure and it really is a good starting point.

BTW without basic computer coding skills learning how to create advanced custom rules can take years (mostly because of the documentation) and is quite a distraction from writing music.
The documentation for custom rules is limited and vague.

,Newberry

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