Discuss Notion Music Composition Software here.
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Problem when importing MIDI file into Notion...
all the notes in the midi file are perfectly quantized (Note on and note off) and they are all 16th's.
For some reason when importing the file into Notion some of them are beamed, some are not... some have been turned into 8ths, some into dotted 8ths... I've been playing with the midi import preferences (chord looseness, tried all settings), still having the same problem.
When importing the same file into another notation software all looks good.
Tried importing in S1 and then sending to notion, same problem.
Anyone else ?
Thanks !
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by Surf.Whammy on Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:28 pm
Since you have access to other software that, apparently, does a more logical conversion of MIDI to music notation, let that be your workaround solution . . . :)

THOUGHTS

There is no one-to-one mapping of MIDI to music notation, so it's more of an art than a science . . .

As you have observed, the NOTION MIDI to music notation conversion algorithm produces what appear to be illogical transformations . . .

From the perspective of software designing and engineering, I think it's accurate to suggest there is no "common sense" aspect . . .

I do not use the MIDI to music notation functionality very often, if at all; but there are times when I record a MIDI performance and then convert it to music notation, nearly always with results that are accurate but generally lacking in common sense . . .

The algorithm is accurate, and the music notation it produces matches the MIDI; but the music notation nearly always is strange . . .

it's "strange", because keyboard is not my primary instrument, and what I think is all "pretty" in fact usually is a mess, but so what . . .

One way to explain this is that it gives emphasis to being precise but at the cost of being logical in a common sense way that maps to human composed music notation, as contrasted to machine interpreted music notation . . .

One way to solve the problem is to add a common sense filter that examines the initially mapped music notation and asks the question, "Is this something a human composer actually would do?" . . .

For example, I did some experiments a few years ago to determine if it was practical to use NOTION in a ReWire session to add VSTi virtual instrument generated audio to a Reason (Reason Studios) song, "Faster" (Techno Squirrels), that was a demo song included with an earlier version of Reason . . .

I composed most of the additional instruments using music notation; but I recorded MIDI played on a Behringer MIDI keyboard for one of the parts and then duplicated it so there were two instruments playing the same p;art . . .

The resulting music notation is exactly what I played on the MIDI keyboard, but it's messy and not at all what I would compose by inputting notes via the mouse, one note at a time . . .

On the other hand, I think it would take me a long time to compose the specific synthesizer part, if it were possible to do this . . .

When I compose music notation directly in NOTION, I do it one note at a time, and it takes a while, although not so long now as contrasted to a few years ago . . .

The more I do music notion one note at a time, the better I get at it . . . :+1

Yet, there are a few tines when I can play something on a real instrument--usually an electric guitar--faster than I can do it with a VSTi virtual instrument and in some instances the only way it can be done here in the sound isolation studio, mostly because there is no practical way to notate certain phrases which otherwise are nearly trivial to play on a real instrument . . .

Consider the lead guitar phrases in "Feel Me", which are a combination of the glissandi at the start of "Pipeline" (The Chantays) and a variation of the classic electric guitar phrase from "The Peter Gunn Theme" (Henry Mancini) . . .

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Easy to play on a real electric guitar, but nearly if not completely impossible to notate with music notation so that the music notation plays a VSTi virtual instrument electric guitar the same way I can play it with a real electric guitar, which with the real electric guitar is just a matter of playing it and recording the audio, which takes the length of the song rather than hours or perhaps days of experimenting with music notation . . .

[NOTE: All the other instruments are virtual and are played with music notation in NOTION. It's only the electric guitar that's real . . . ]

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Skip forward eight years, and it's easy to do "The Peter Gunn Theme" electric guitar with music notation and a virtual electric guitar but not so much for the "Pipeline" electric guitar glissandi, although it might be possible to record playing on a real electric guitar in Studio One Professional and then to use Melodyne (Celemony) to analyze it, quantize it, and then export it as MIDI, followed by importing it to NOTION and converting it to music notation to discover how it's done using music notation . . .

Melodyne has a good quantizing algorithm, and the "blobs" can be adjusted manually to make it all the more perfect, so that's a definite possibility . . .

For reference, using the glissandi notation mark is useless in this regard, so it's really a matter of discovering how it's notated properly . . .

This is the MIDI synthesizer part I played on a Behriger MIDI keyboard when I was experimenting with the Tecno Squirrels song . . .

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And this is how it sounds in the song . . .

[NOTE: The first part of this YouTube video is focused on providing indisputable proof, via "About", that this actually a ReWire Sesiion with Digital Performer as the ReWire host controller and both NOTION and Reason as ReWire helper applications, which I included because to the best of my knowledge nobody actually does it this way. The first playback start is done to preload the instrument buffers and other stuff. This was when I was using Digital Performer (MOTU) as my Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) application. When Studio One Professional and NOTION started supporting ReWire MIDI, I switched to Studio One Professional as my primary DAW application. It's useful to observe that when I play real instruments, including MIDI keyboards, I compose everything on the fly in real-time and usually do it on the first take; hence in addition to being something which would be difficult to do with music notation, it's also was something that took just a few minutes . . . ]

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Am I suggesting there is a problem with the way NOTION converts MIDI to music notation?

No, but I am suggesting that in some instances it might be nice to have a "common sense" option for simplifying otherwise precise conversions to music notation . . . :ugeek:

Anything might be possible, but would I prefer (a) NOTION to do precise mapping of MIDI to music notation in the sense that the music notation plays the phrases precisely or (b) NOTION simplifies the MIDI and makes it look "pretty" as contrasted to being exact?

In this instance I think (a) is the best strategy, since at a high level it's based on the "do no harm" rule, which mostly is a matter of respect for the musician . . .

I played and recorded it, and NOTION did not mess with what I played and recorded . . .

In this respect, NOTION is following the same rule George Martin followed when he produced the Beatles, which basically was to give the Beatles options and then to let them decide which option they preferred . . .

Explained another way, Studio One and NOTION did not mess with what you actually played . . .

The other applications that appeared to produce "pretty" music notation messed with what you played and changed what you played to something they thought you might have wanted to play . . . :roll:

SUMMARY

(1) Studio One and NOTION respect what you play and, as a rule, do not mess with it, although if you ask, they will do some quantizing.

(2) There is no one-to-one napping of MIDI to music notation, so it's more of an art than a science.

(3) Applications that provide "pretty" mappings of MIDI to music notation are messing with what you played, which basically disrespects what you played.

(4) If you are not a precise MIDI player, then you can record the generated audio in Studio One Professional and use Melodyne to adjust it and to make it as perfect as you desire, no matter how you define "perfect".

(5) If you prefer "pretty" to precise and have an application that does "pretty", then use it as a workaround or a "pretty" option.

For the Techno Squirrels song, (a) I like what I played and (b) NOTION did not mess with what I played, which is good and respects what I did; and overall, I think precision and respect beat "pretty" . . .

Lots of FUN! :)
Last edited by Surf.Whammy on Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!
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by stevegalante on Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:16 pm
hey Surf.Whammy, first of all let me thank you and congratulate with you because this is definitely the LONGEST reply I got to any of my posts ever !
I perfectly understand all that you're saying because - unfortunately - I am quite old and so VERY acquainted with playing music, programming midi, notations, conversions, etc. on all kinds of scores/genres/etc.
To be honest with you, the reason I am trying to switch to Notion (and eventually S1) is because I am pretty tired of Avid's policies, but from a professional point of view I must admit I never had this kind of problems with Sibelius. And, to be even more honest, with Finale and, to be 1000% honest, even with ProTools's internal score notator, which is VERY basic.
I am not talking about complicated performances/notation, I am talking 16th notes. Single notes, not even chords. On one staff. Violin on a totally standard range, so just treble staff.
Originally played on keyboard and then quantized. 100% quantized. Start and end points. Even all the same velocity. Same thing happens when going through S1. Not talking about the aesthetics of the score here, but really very basic stuff.
I'll try to post some examples.
But thank you in the meantime for your time !
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by michaelmyers1 on Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:54 pm
A quick ticket to Presonus support will get Brian the Notion support Meister on it!

iMac (Retina 5K 27", 2019) 3.6 ghz I9 8-core 64 gb RAM Fusion Drive
with small AOC monitor for additional display
macOS Big Sur 11.4
2 - 500 gb + 1 tb external SSD for sample libraries
M Audio AirHub audio interface
Nektar Panorama P1 control surface
Nektar Impact 49-key MIDI keyboard
Focal CMS40 near-field monitors
JBL LSR310S subwoofer
Notion 6 + Studio One 5 Pro

http://www.tensivity.com

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