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I’ve imported a music xml lead sheet from Logic. It looks like the chord symbols are out of sync and are 2 beats late. This is a long 16 minute score. I can select all of them but can’t seem to move them all “at once”. Also it looks like some chords didn’t get imported correctly so maybe this functionality just isn’t there yet and I’ll have to renter/fix a lot of things anyway. Thanks for any help!

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by Surf.Whammy on Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:05 am
davidchamberlin wroteI’ve imported a music xml lead sheet from Logic. It looks like the chord symbols are out of sync and are 2 beats late. This is a long 16 minute score. I can select all of them but can’t seem to move them all “at once”. Also it looks like some chords didn’t get imported correctly so maybe this functionality just isn’t there yet and I’ll have to renter/fix a lot of things anyway. Thanks for any help!


I did a few simple experiments, and confirmed that you can copy, cut, and paste selected chord symbols; but there are a few caveats involving the way chord symbols are positioned beat-wise and aligned . . . :)

THOUGHTS

This might be a simple puzzle, but perhaps not . . .

Rather than focus on 16 minutes of music notation, my advice is to create a smaller but representative score which is no longer than 25 or so measures . . .

It could be the first 25 measures of the longer score, and to make it readily available for discussion you might change the pitches of notes and the types of chords, but leave the durations the same . . .

It doesn't matter if the obfuscated experimental score sounds good, bad, or indifferent . . .

It doesn't matter, because the focus is on determining the problem with positioning the chord symbols . . .

The puzzle is made considerably more complex because it involves Logic (Apple), MusicXML, and NOTION . . .

The problem could be caused by Logic, MusicXML, or NOTION, and until you examine everything there is no way of knowing with certainty where the problem occurs . . .

One possibility is that the Logic score has a two-beat "pickup" phrase at the beginning or something similar which causes the chord symbols to be shifted two beats forward . . .

Another possibility is that the page sizes are different for Logic and NOTION . . .

[NOTE: When I was working on the NASA Shuttle Mission Simulator (SMS) many decades ago on the first two Space Shuttle missions, it used the largest UNIVAC mainframe computers on Earth; and every once in a while the simulator would stop working. There were a few people who then were tasked with finding the problem and correcting it. One of these people was my manager, and since I was just starting my computer science career and was vastly curious, he let me watch as he identified and solved a problem. i asked him how he could memorize and understand thousands of programs for each button, meter, gauge, and so forth; and his reply led to an epiphany. What he said is that he had no idea how much of anything actually worked, so he just looked at everything to find something that did not look "right", an activity which he called "Scouting Around". Basically, as I understand "Scouting Around", it's a matter of focusing on patterns and looking for things that do not fit the patterns. You do some experiments when you think you have found an odd part of a pattern, and sooner or later the problem is identified and solved . . . :+1 ]

You can examine a MusicXML file and after a bit of studying can make sense of it . . .

Maybe it's a simple value somewhere in the MusicXML that is easy to change . . .

When investigating problems like this, I find it useful to focus on small subsets that are representative, which for example can map to selecting 25 measures from the middle of the score and then copying and pasting them to create a new score, which you then can use for experimenting with MusicXML importing and exporting . . .

There likely is a pattern, and the more consistent the pattern, the more likely correcting it will be simple--perhaps just changing a single value in a MusicXML parameter or item . . .

If everything is shifted to the right by two beats, then perhaps it's just a matter of the starting position value being too large by exactly two beats . . .

EXPERIMENT

I created a simple NOTION 6 score; added some notes and chord symbols; and then exported it as MusicXML . . .

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This is the MusicXML code for the C Major chord . . .

[NOTE: As a somewhat--if not absolute--rule, tags in XML are done as pairs in the form "<tag> . . . </tag>", where one begins and the other has a slash "/" to indicate the tag ending . . . ]

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This is the complete MusicXML file . . .

SW-N6-Chord-Symbols-Music-XML.xml

Any type of eXtensible-Markup-Language (XML) will be complex in the extreme and vastly wordy, but it makes sense after a while if you can tolerate examining it in great detail . . .

However, it will be nice if you can devise a few simple experiments to determine the cause of the problem . . .

This thinking is based on the following example, allegory, metaphor, analogy, or simile . . .

You awake in the morning and put on your shoes . . .

Every time you take a step with your right foot, you feel a sharp pain . . .

So, you call for an ambulance to take you to the emergency room, and when you arrive the doctor asks you to remove your shoes and then examines your feet . . .

Next the doctor asks you to take a few steps and to say something if you feel the sharp pain . . .

You take a few steps but there is no sharp pain . . .

The doctor looks inside your right shoe and sees a pebble with sharp sides . . .

The problem is solved, and a few days later you get a bill, which when paid is used by the hospital administrators, doctor, nurses, medical technicians, and ambulance company owner to pay for one-week excursions on luxury cruise ships . . . :P

The MusicXML puzzle might be vastly complex, but it could be just a matter of a "pebble in a shoe" . . .

THOUGHTS ON MUSICXML CHORD SYMBOLS

Since chord symbols are supported in MusicXML and since NOTION only has a limited subset of chord symbols, I wonder whether MusicXML can be used to create new chord symbols for use in NOTION . . .

On the other side, if NOTION only uses its standard subset of chord symbols, then this could explain why some of the chord symbols are not exact matches . . .

I think this a good opportunity to do a few more experiments . . .

Lots of FUN! :)

The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!
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by davidchamberlin on Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:16 am
Thanks for the reply! I might have misspoke as I meant chord markings (basic A, B,C etc). They’re out of sync. Another issue is that all of them are truncated down to just the basic chord. So Am is now A. So, regardless of the sync issue they need to be edited. Oh well. At least the notes and lyrics are there!

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by Surf.Whammy on Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:04 pm
I did a quick experiment, and NOTION uses a different algorithm for chord names . . . :o

THOUGHTS

I was able to cut, copy, and paste chord symbols--individually and as a group--and the results generally were what I expected; but this was not what happened when I did experiments with chord names . . .

I was able to select chord names, but cutting them to the Clipboard and then pasting them to another starting beat erased the notes in the the measure(s), which makes cutting, copying, and pasting mostly useless as a solution . . .

However, I was able to select only one chord name; cut it to the Clipboard; and then paste it to a new beat . . .

So one chord name at a time looks to work correctly, but selecting a chord name and moving it with the mouse does not work . . .

The various behaviors are something I consider to be the consequence of attempting to reuse classes, methods, and properties in a general way without doing a lot of testing . . .

It's one of the drawbacks of Object-Oriented Programming Systems (OOPS), and it can be difficult to debug . . .

This is made all the more difficult by some of the work being done by frameworks, classes, and so forth that are provided by Apple and Microsoft as part of programming languages which are made specific to versions of operating systems . . .

In such instances, code that was working correctly stops working as expected . . .

It's always a "moving target" in this respect, and at least some of the time it has nothing to do with localized application code--"localized" in the sense of code created by application programmers rather than at a high-level by Apple and Microsoft in new versions of their programming languages and systems, which are what application developers use to create applications . . .

OBSERVATION

I have Logic Pro X (Apple) but not on the computer I am using at present, so there is not much I can do to examine the Logic Pro X side of the equation . . .

Making this all the more difficult, last week there was a storm that knocked down a huge oak tree, which among other things zapped the electric service cables and the coaxial cable for my high-speed broadband cable connectivity . . .

Fortunately, the tree fell on the yard--not on the house . . .

The utility folks removed the lower part of the oak tree and ran new electric service cables, but the top half of the tree fell onto my driveway--no vehicles present--so I have been clearing it this week with a Stihl chain saw and a Stihl pole saw, the latter of which is the best one they make and is mind-bogglingly fantastic . . .

The primary concern for this type of tree removal work is to avoid what colloquially are called "widow makers", which are a combination of bent but not broken branches that are like springs when they are cut and not giving proper attention to the way everything is balanced . . .

If you are using only a chain saw, they you need to be near whatever you are cutting; and if you cut a branch that is balancing the tree or keeping it in a fixed and safe position, then the tree can roll, which has the potential to have a bad outcome if it rolls the wrong way . . .

The Stihl pole saw lets me sand 8 to perhaps 12 feet away from whatever I am cutting, and this makes the work safer . . .

In many respects, it's like the game "pick up sticks" . . .

I suppose I could use an USB memory stick or an external hard drive, but that's a lot of work--mostly because I don't have a USB memory stick . . .

SUGGESTION

This is an interesting puzzle, but for the most part all I can do is make guesses, since I don't have data files . . .

If there is a way you can create a representative sample data file and post it to this topic as a link, then I can look at it and see if anything looks "not right" . . .

I think you can make a copy of the Logic score via "Save As . . . " and then delete all but the first 25 or so measures, as well as the lyrics. Change the note pitches and chord names, but for the chord names be certain to use some of the chord names that when imported to NOTION as MusicXML are truncated to alphabetic characters (for example "D" rather than "Dsus2") . . .

I have NOTION on the computer I am using at present, so with a representative sample MusicXML file, I can do a bit of examining and experimenting . . .

If the full chord names are in the MusicXML file exported by Logic, then this will indicate that the problem is an algorithm in NOTION; but, in contrast, if the full chord name is not in the MusicXML exported from Logic, then the problem is with Logic and the way it creates and exports MusicXML . . .

I did another quick experiment with NOTION, and when NOTION creates and exports a MusicXML file with full chord names, the data is there . . .

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I have Logic Pro X, but I only use it to help folks in this forum with ReWire connectivity and a few other types of problems . . .

Overall, while there are some nice aspects of Logic Pro X, (a) it's a bit complex for doing ReWire; (b) some of the bussing is beyond complex; and (c) I don't like the overall "sound" of the Logic Pro X virtual mixing board . . .

In the same way that physical mixing boards have unique "sounds", so do virtual mixing boards; and the way I categorize mixing board sounds is based on a range of "smooth" to "crisp" . . .

The Logic Pro X mixing board is very "smooth", and it's even "smoother" than the Digital Performer (MOTU) virtual mixing board; which I suppose is good if you want a primarily analog "vacuum tube" warmth and blur; but I prefer Studio One Professional (PreSonus), because (a) its virtual mixing board is "crisp" and (b) it is the king of doing ReWire with NOTION and Reason (Propellerhead Software), both of which are very important to me . . .

The reason I prefer the virtual mixing board to be "crisp" is that I have an excellent set of VST effects plug-ins that emulate legacy analog devices, hence can be used to add vacuum-tube smoothness and blur; and I also have effects plug-ins from FabFilter Software Instruments that are not legacy emulations but nevertheless have stellar capabilities in this regard . . .

Vacuum-tube smoothness and blur are like reverberation and echoes in the sense that you can add them easily after the fact, but if they are embedded then they are impossible to remove . . .

The virtual mixing board for Studio One Professional also is what I "tolerant" in the sense that you can add tracks without needing to revisit the levels of already existing and produced tracks, which makes it vastly easier to create songs in layers . . .

Eventually, I revisit everything; but it's nice to be able to add a few tracks without immediately needing to revisit everything . . .

With "crisp" and "tolerant", combined with a carefully selected set of effects plug-ins, I can enhance tracks with vacuum-tube smoothness and blur and add a few tracks without needing to revisit all the levels and settings immediately, which saves time . . .

Tools of Production and all that . . . :+1

Lots of FUN! :)

P. S. The primary reason I avoid USB memory sticks is that when I am not composing songs and logging, I work on various national security projects under the auspices of the Pretend FBI, an organization I created and for which I am the Director using the moniker "Melvin Piffle [not his real name]" . . .

When I need to communicate wirelessly, I use my psychic powers and the mind of "Bucky the Little Mutant Raccoon", hence have no need or desire for USB memory sticks, broadband cable, and cellphones . . .

The only drawback to this communication strategy is that it requires the recipient to be in a Victorian claw tub, since "Bucky" prefers to send messages and data through the faucets of Victorian claw tubs, although I also use a UniversaTone Galactic Radio, which is fabulous . . .

phpBB [video]


Fabulous! :P

The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!

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