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Good morning, everyone,
I wrote (copied a score, I don't really know how to write music) this string of notes:

Quarter note/triolet (eighth note rest + eighth note + eighth note) -Quarter note/triolet (eighth note rest + eighth note + eighth note)
Indeed, I copied a score from a professional musician, Notion seemed to me to have trouble understanding a rest and two notes in a triplet. I had to use the personalized n-olet form ('N-olet personnalisé' in my French version).

The problem is that the last two eighth notes are considered excessive and appear in red. I don't understand why Thank you for your help.
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by Surf.Whammy on Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:05 pm
etienneloyon wroteGood morning, everyone,
I wrote (copied a score, I don't really know how to write music) this string of notes:

Quarter note/triolet (eighth note rest + eighth note + eighth note) -Quarter note/triolet (eighth note rest + eighth note + eighth note)
Indeed, I copied a score from a professional musician, Notion seemed to me to have trouble understanding a rest and two notes in a triplet. I had to use the personalized n-olet form ('N-olet personnalisé' in my French version).

The problem is that the last two eighth notes are considered excessive and appear in red. I don't understand why Thank you for your help.


I think you are either (a) confusing the rest and note values or (b) have specified a different time signature than "4/4"--perhaps a combination of rest values, note values, and time signature . . . :roll:

THOUGHTS

I did a quick experiment in the latest version of NOTION (6.5.470, 64-bit), and everything worked as expected--no problems and no red notes . . .

Image
CORRECT ~ No Problems

I did another experiment where I changed the time signature to "3/4" and used quarter rests and quarter notes, which created the problem you described with respect to the last two notes being shown in red . . .

Image
INCORRECT ~ Problems

Can you post an image of the music notation where this occurs and include the time signature?

Lots of FUN! :)

The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!
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by etienneloyon on Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:40 am
erreur notion.docx
Page-print wih my issue. Score is in progress, so you can't really play anything consistent just now.
(341.13 KiB) Downloaded 16 times
Hello,

Please find attached a page-copy of the Notion file with the mistakes.

Thank you so much
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by Surf.Whammy on Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:52 am
The notes should not be red, so something adverse is happening . . . :(

THOUGHTS

I will look at this in more detail later, but there is an experiment you can do which might provide some help . . .

Do this for each of the tuplets that shows one or two red notes (measures 6 and 7) . . .

(1) Select the eighth rest and two following eighth notes (or three quarter notes, respectively) of the tuplet. . .

(2) The using the context menu, remove the tuplet . . .

(3) Then select the eighth rest and two following eighth notes (or three quarter notes, respectively) again . . .

(4) Now using the context menu, make it a tuplet . . .

If NOTION was a bit confused, then perhaps this will un-confuse it . . .

Another possibility that comes to mind is the chord icons might have something to do with the problem . . .

Lots of FUN! :)

The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!
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by etienneloyon on Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:24 am
Hello,

I did what you said ; but only partly because once I had done (1) and (2), the left notes became correct, the only drag being the measure is too short, of course.
I deleted the chords icons too but no avail.
It might deserve a ticket, isn't it? Or maybe an update to Notion6?
I am going to wait a bit, to see if some solutionneer shows up then I 'll do that.
Thank you very much, anyway.
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by Surf.Whammy on Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:16 pm
etienneloyon wroteHello,

I did what you said ; but only partly because once I had done (1) and (2), the left notes became correct, the only drag being the measure is too short, of course.
I deleted the chords icons too but no avail.
It might deserve a ticket, isn't it? Or maybe an update to Notion6?
I am going to wait a bit, to see if some solutionneer shows up then I 'll do that.
Thank you very much, anyway.


In step (2), when I said to "remove the tuplet" I was referring to making the rest and notes regular, not to removing the rest and notes of the tuplet . . . :)

Image
Step (2) ~ Remove the tuplet but keep the rest and notes

Image
Step (4) ~ Make the rest and notes a tuplet

When I write "remove the tuplet", I am referring to making the rest and notes not a tuplet but instead just regular notes . . .

[NOTE: In this example, when the rest and notes are not a tuplet (shown in green box), they have a duration of 3 eighth notes or 1.5 beats in 4/4 time. But when the rest and notes are a tuplet (shown in the red box), they have the duration of only 2 eighth notes or 1 beat in 4/4 time . . . ]

Image

THOUGHTS

For some at present unknown reason, NOTION 5 is behaving like it doesn't know the eighth rest and two eighth notes are in a tuplet, even though it looks like they are in a tuplet . . .

So the work-around is to remove the tuplet designation but keep the rest and notes, and then to select the rest and notes and make it a tuplet . . .

Let me know if this solves the problem . . .

On a related note, I am using NOTION 6 (current version); so this might be a bug in NOTION 5 (previous version) . . .

Lots of FUN! :)

The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!
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by etienneloyon on Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:36 pm
Thank you ; I did what you said and I obtained uncomplete tuplet (without the bar) ; so the last thing was to select again this uncomplete tuplet, right click and in the menu, select "show bracket"). Now, it's just fine.

Thank you again. Very nice of you.
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by Surf.Whammy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:46 am
etienneloyon wroteThank you ; I did what you said and I obtained uncomplete tuplet (without the bar) ; so the last thing was to select again this uncomplete tuplet, right click and in the menu, select "show bracket"). Now, it's just fine.

Thank you again. Very nice of you.


Did this solve the problem of the incorrectly appearing red notes? :)

THOUGHTS

To be clear on "regular vs. tuplet", this image shows (a) a set of three items (eighth rest and two eighth notes) which is not a tuplet and (b) a tuplet consisting of three items (an eighth rest and two eighth notes) . . .

Image

When a set of notes and rests is a tuplet, you can hide the brackets and number but it's still a tuplet; so you can't always rely on brackets or numbers as visual cues; and it's possible to specify the change in duration as a ratio, which in this example will be "3:2", meaning play the three items in the time usually done for two items . . .

As you can see in the image, the rest and two notes outlined in green are not a tuplet; and this is verified by the last quarter note in the measure being red . . .

In the next measure, the rest and two notes outlined in red are a tuplet; and this is verified by the following three quarter notes in the measure being black . . .

Unless you explicitly make the rest and two notes a tuplet, they are regular and have the regular duration values, which in this example is 1.5 beats in 4/4 time . . .

When you make the rest and two notes a tuplet, the duration of the combined rest and two notes becomes 1 beat in 4/4 time, which as indicated by the "3" means that the rest and two notes are played in the time usually mapped to just 1 beat . . .

Lots of FUN! :)

P. S. My perspective is that what one might call "regular" music notation is binary, by which I mean that the durations are multiples of two . . .

A note or rest can be "dotted" or "double-dotted", but it's still a multiple of two . . .

One "dot" means the duration is its standard duration plus one-half of the standard duration . . .

Two "dots" means that the duration is its standard duration plus one-half plus one-quarter . . .

Three "dots" means that the duration is its standard duration plus one-half plus one-quarter plus one-eighth of the standard duration . . .

Image

I consider all these {regular, dotted, double-dotted, triple-dotted} to be binary, which is fine . . .

The problem with everything being binary is that there is not so much syncopation, and this is a problem which using tuplets will solve . . .

Tuplet ratios in NOTION can be (a) simple or (b) complex, where (a) an example of a simple ratio is "3:2" and (b) an example of a complex ratio is "5:3" . . .

Image

Tuplets make it possible to play notes in syncopated or "odd" rhythm patterns, as contrasted to regular or "even" (a.k.a., "binary") rhythm patterns . . .

In the simple "3:2" ratio tuplet, each of the notes in the example has a duration of 0.67 the duration of a regular eighth note, which from my perspective makes it "non-binary" . . .

Similarly in the complex ratio tuplet ("5:3"), each of the notes in the example has a duration of 0.60 the duration of a regular eighth note and is "non-binary" . . .

Mostly, I use tuplets to add syncopation to drum patterns; but I also use them to add syncopation to melodies, as occurs in the sassy Cuban trumpet in this composition, which is fabulous . . .

[NOTE: There are some audio glitches in this version, which is due to the Mac Pro (Early 2008) being a bit overwhelmed by running NOTION in real-time and capturing the audio and video with Screenflow (Telestream); but it's good for seeing where I use tuplets to add syncopation to the sassy Cuban trumpet ("Cuba Collection" [Native Instruments]) . . . ]

phpBB [video]


[NOTE: This is the same composition but with the MOTU Fast Fourier Transform (FFT) Analyzer as the visual. There are no audio glitches in this one if you have a fast ISP and YouTube is peppy. For reference, instead of composing counterpoint and harmonies for the sassy Cuban trumpet, I used a cascading echo unit (Timeless 2 [FabFilter Software Instruments]), which also works nicely for lead guitar . . . ]

phpBB [video]


Fabulous! :)

The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!
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by etienneloyon on Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:19 am
Ouch ! A bit overwhelming ; still I share this project of trying to render syncopated melody (without falling in unbelievable complexity, if possible). I notice the Real Book lets the player decide how he will swing the melody, and that's how Ido the writing of a swing tune.With modern learning tools like midi music, sound files attached to scores, etc... it is not a problem anymore on the whole.

To any event, I know how to write a tuplet now, so thank you.

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