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Hey y'all,
I received a PDF of some music for my daughter from a friend who uses Sibelius. The print out has a cool feature that I don't know if Notion has. The note on the staff has the letter of the note inside. Has anyone done this? I appears to be a great way to help when learning to sight read.
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by michaelmyers1 on Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:24 pm
Great idea. I've suggested that notes somehow self-identify (i thought a basic way might be a tooltip) but the suggestion never seemed to go anywhere.

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by michaeldiemer1 on Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:18 am
If you haven't already heard this, here is an easy way to learn note names:

Starting at the bottom line/space:

On the treble clef, the lines are: E-G-B-D-F. Just remember the mnemonic: Every Good Boy Deserves Favor.

The spaces are: F-A-C-E. No need for a mnemonic, just remember the word "face."

On the Bass clef, the lines are: G-B-D-F-A. The mnemonic: Great Big Dogs Fight Animals.

The spaces are A-C-E-G. The mnemonic for this is: All Cows Eat Grass.

There is no easier way to do it.

On the Alto and Tenor clefs, I am not aware of any mnemonics, but once you learn the others, you realize that the sequences are the same. For example, on the Alto clef, the middle line is C. You then know that the first line must be F, the second A, the fourth E, and the fifth G. And so on.

Once you know the sequences, you can figure it out on any clef. But unless you're doing orchestral music, you only have to worry about the treble (or soprano) and bass clefs. In orchestral music, the violas use the Alto clef. and occasionally, some instruments temporarily use the tenor clef, to avoid the use of too many ledger lines. (The tenor clef has C on the second line from the top. The bassoon and cellos and trombones are the ones that use this mostly, when the music gets in the high range).

It is also customary for the violas to switch to the treble clef when they get too high. In general, you can use any clef if it's more convenient, but in orchestral music the above conventions are customary. For example, the violins always use the treble clef, even though their lower notes go below it.

Learning this basic concept is actually the first step in learning music theory. When you have mastered it, you can then move to intervals and chords. When you have that, you are well on the way to understanding theory. It's not nearly as hard as it seems.
Last edited by michaeldiemer1 on Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Michael Diemer
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by randyclark on Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:05 pm
The note letters help with younger kids. Piano teachers will usually write the note on the staff to teach sight reading. This particular case is a child being nervous for her first recital. It's more akin to having note card while giving a speech; a reference should you lose your place. We pencil in a lot of stuff for beginners, and this was just a neat way to add information to the staff. I do appreciate your comments on memorizing tips. I am self taught (and therefore not the best teacher) so much of this is new to me.
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by BobF on Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:40 am
I could share scores with more guitar players if there was an option to put note names on the score. :)

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by michaeldiemer1 on Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:07 am
robertfreeze wroteI could share scores with more guitar players if there was an option to put note names on the score. :)

Or if more guitar players knew "Every Good Boy Deserves Favor." What's so difficult about that?

Michael Diemer
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by BobF on Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:23 pm
michaeldiemer1 wrote
robertfreeze wroteI could share scores with more guitar players if there was an option to put note names on the score. :)

Or if more guitar players knew "Every Good Boy Deserves Favor." What's so difficult about that?


In situations like these I ask myself if it's easier to change the world, or to change the tool.

Considering the number of teaching materials I see with note letters inside of note heads, I think the request is perfectly valid. Just another way of teaching the staff to people.

There are other crusades that are much more important to me :)

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by michaeldiemer1 on Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:34 pm
Oh, I totally agree that the request is valid, Robert. That actually would be the easiest way, you would just wake up one day knowing the notes. The Notion Presonus devs may eventually do it. On the other hand, they may not. In the meantime, why not take the few minutes it takes and learn once and for all the notes on the staff?

I'm not on a crusade, just trying to help. I think a lot of folks shy away from "music theory" because they think it's rocket science. Some folks think, "I'm doing fine being self-taught, why bother?" (By the way, I'm a guitarist and also self-taught). Notation is the language of music. It's how musicians communicate. On the Reaper forum, I would not suggest this. But this is, after all, the Notion forum. As in, music notation? I think, maybe, my suggestion might be at least somewhat relevant? ;)

Michael Diemer
I-7, 16 GB RAM, WD Black HHD's, 1TB (2); Windows 7 Pro, UR-22 interface, Reaper, M-Audio BX5a monitor/Mackie sub, Sonar 8.5.3, GPO4, EWSO Gold, Vienna Sp. Ed. 1, Cinematic Strings
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by BobF on Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:18 am
michaeldiemer1 wroteOh, I totally agree that the request is valid, Robert. That actually would be the easiest way, you would just wake up one day knowing the notes. The Notion Presonus devs may eventually do it. On the other hand, they may not. In the meantime, why not take the few minutes it takes and learn once and for all the notes on the staff?

I'm not on a crusade, just trying to help. I think a lot of folks shy away from "music theory" because they think it's rocket science. Some folks think, "I'm doing fine being self-taught, why bother?" (By the way, I'm a guitarist and also self-taught). Notation is the language of music. It's how musicians communicate. On the Reaper forum, I would not suggest this. But this is, after all, the Notion forum. As in, music notation? I think, maybe, my suggestion might be at least somewhat relevant? ;)


*I* know the notes. I see this functionality of this request as something that extend Notion's utility in learning environments.

My comment about guitar players was tongue/cheek - as a guitar player I feel like it's OK to poke a little fun at my comrades.

Please, call me 'Bob(F)'

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by michaeldiemer1 on Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:34 am
robertfreeze wrote
*I* know the notes. I see this functionality of this request as something that extend Notion's utility in learning environments.

My comment about guitar players was tongue/cheek - as a guitar player I feel like it's OK to poke a little fun at my comrades.

Please, call me 'Bob(F)'


Yes, I got the impression you did read music, Bob, and your suggestion was to help those who don't. My remarks were not meant to imply otherwise, sorry I didn't make that more clear. :oops:

Michael Diemer
I-7, 16 GB RAM, WD Black HHD's, 1TB (2); Windows 7 Pro, UR-22 interface, Reaper, M-Audio BX5a monitor/Mackie sub, Sonar 8.5.3, GPO4, EWSO Gold, Vienna Sp. Ed. 1, Cinematic Strings
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by BobF on Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:03 pm
michaeldiemer1 wrote
robertfreeze wrote
*I* know the notes. I see this functionality of this request as something that extend Notion's utility in learning environments.

My comment about guitar players was tongue/cheek - as a guitar player I feel like it's OK to poke a little fun at my comrades.

Please, call me 'Bob(F)'


Yes, I got the impression you did read music, Bob, and your suggestion was to help those who don't. My remarks were not meant to imply otherwise, sorry I didn't make that more clear. :oops:


It's all good michael.

I remember us chatting some about new staff integration in another DAW. Is Notion working out OK for you?

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by michaeldiemer1 on Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:45 pm
Ah yes, that was the Sonar forum, I believe. I wondered if that was you, Bob.

Yes, I'm impressed with Notion. As a hobbyist, it's enough for me. Easy to use, very powerful. I can knock a score into shape in a few weeks. (Full Orchestra scores, anywhere from 7-16 minutes long, so it does take me a while). It imports well from both Sonar and Reaper. I have recently transitioned to Reaper. just could not make the jump from Sonar 8.5 to the X series and beyond. My first attempt importing from Reaper didn't work too well. I was using midi 1. Then I discovered you can import the XML notation file from Reaper. That worked much better. Reaper's notation is impressive, considering it's less than a year old. But it's meant of course to be an editing feature, not a dedicated notation one.

Michael Diemer
I-7, 16 GB RAM, WD Black HHD's, 1TB (2); Windows 7 Pro, UR-22 interface, Reaper, M-Audio BX5a monitor/Mackie sub, Sonar 8.5.3, GPO4, EWSO Gold, Vienna Sp. Ed. 1, Cinematic Strings
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by BobF on Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:14 pm
I picked up SO3P during a recent sale to see what it's like. I really like SO. There are quite a few things "missing" compared to SONAR - "missing" is in quotes because I figure there are ways to achieve the same results. I just haven't found them yet.

I also grabbed an upgrade to N6. So far I've done a basic test sending a score to SO from Notion. This was with the non-Rewire approach. Just click "Send To Studio One" and bang, there's a new song with a MIDI track for each instrument in the score. Impressive. So far.

Well, enough OT for this thread. Good to see you, michael, and glad to hear everything is working out.

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