I am transitioning to using Notion in conjunction with Studio One. I've recently downloaded the free version of Studio One.
I'm wondering: who else here is using these two programs together?
It appears the Studio One forum on this site is closed to those who haven't yet paid for the product, so I'd like to connect with Studio One users here in the Notion forum, and get some knowledge.
Can anyone recommend good tutorials or other learning resources for Studio One?
I am a very limited use of Notion 5 and Studio One. I have created songs where S1 is rewired with Notion. To be honest, I am not into scoring as much as playing live and using midi.
I just Googled the following and selected Videos from Chrome:
Notion 5 and Studio One
There are many videos out there already that you should watch.
Reading thru these Notion boards is also good to see what's going on.
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jasonchildress wroteI am transitioning to using Notion in conjunction with Studio One. I've recently downloaded the free version of Studio One.
There are several ways to use NOTION with a Digital Audio Workstation application, but in the grand scheme of everything I think ReWire (Propellerhead Software) is the best way, and it's a personal favorite . . .
For reference, ReWire is an interapplication communication technology and infrastructure that makes it possible for ReWire-enabled music production applications to interact, where one application--typically the DAW application--is the ReWire host controller and the other applications are ReWire slaves, hence are controlled by the ReWire host controller . . .
This particular technology works very nicely on the Mac, and it's very powerful . . .
Studio One supports ReWire but you need the Professional version for Studio One 3 . . .
If you have Studio One 2, then you need either (a) the Producer version or (b) the Professional version . . .
At present I am using Studio One 2.6.5 Producer, but I plan to upgrade to Studio One 3 Professional sometime in the not so distant future . . .
Based on current pricing at the PreSonus website, Studio One 3 Professional costs $300 (US), but if you have NOTION 5 you can do a competitive crossgrade to Studio One 3 Professional for $299 (US), which is spanky . . .
Since you are doing digital music production on the Mac, it's useful to know that Logic Pro X (Apple) does ReWire, and it costs $199 (US) at the Apple App Store . . .
My favorite DAW application is Digital Performer (MOTU), but all three of these DAW applications do ReWire nicely (Digital Performer, Logic Pro X, Studio One) . . .
Yet another option is to use Reaper, and it's the lowest cost application, coming in at $60 (US) unless your gross revenue exceeds $20,000 a year, in which case the license costs $225 (US) . . .
I also use Reaper but without a license, since at present the discounted license fee is greater than my yearly gross revenue, although this can change if Justin Bieber decides to record "Feel Me", which I think is a great song for him and could be his "Hound Dog" or "Billy Jean" . . .
POP QUIZ: Name Justin Bieber's signature song . . .
[NOTE: Everything is virtual and done with music notation and VSTi virtual instruments in NOTION, recorded in ReWire sessions and then mixed in Digital Performer, except the electric guitar and singing, which are real . . . ]
This is a YouTube video tutorial I made a few years ago to show a ReWire session where Studio One 2 Producer is the ReWire host controller and both NOTION and Reason (Propellerhead Software) are ReWire slaves . . .
This is a different version of the same song but done with Logic Pro X as the ReWire host controller . . .
Lots of FUN!
Surf.Whammy wrotejasonchildress wroteI am transitioning to using Notion in conjunction with Studio One. I've recently downloaded the free version of Studio One.
Thanks for the input, SurfWhammy.
If I understand your post correctly, you're saying that you use (and recommend) ReWire. You also recommend a few other DAWs.
Good to know, thanks! I'll be exploring Studio One in particular for now, but in the future I may look into some other options.
The main attractions of Studio One are twofold: 1) It's designed to work with Notion, and 2) a free version is available for download.
jasonchildress wroteThanks for the input, SurfWhammy.
Glad to help!
jasonchildress wroteIf I understand your post correctly, you're saying that you use (and recommend) ReWire. You also recommend a few other DAWs.
ReWire is excellent, and NOTION 5 follows the ReWire rules very nicely . . .
As noted, I have verified this with several DAW applications, and this also includes Ableton Live 9 Standard . . .
My favorite DAW application is Digital Performer (MOTU), and I have been using it for a long time, so for me it's the easiest DAW to use, where for reference I started with lite version (Audio Desk [MOTU]) over 10 years ago and then upgraded to the full version (Digital Performer) a while later, about 8 years ago when I moved from an iMac to a Mac Pro . . .
Here in the sound isolation studio, Digital Performer continues to have a bug that causes it to crash in a ReWire session with NOTION if I use the Digital Performer transport to rewind to the first beat of the first measure--which is annoying--but I avoid the problem by inserting 4 or 9 blank measures at the start of the NOTION score and then use a "marker" in Digital Performer to move to the first beat of the virtual start, which when there are 4 blank measures will be the first beat of the fifth measure and so forth . . .
I am not certain why this happens, but Digital Performer crashes, so my perspective is that Digital Performer has a bug--not NOTION--because applications are not supposed to crash on the Mac, but so what . . .
For reference, this doesn't happen with the other DAW applications I test . . .
jasonchildress wroteGood to know, thanks! I'll be exploring Studio One in particular for now, but in the future I may look into some other options.
I wasn't so certain about the first attraction, so I did a bit of checking and decided to upgrade to Studio One 3 Professional, since there as you noted there are some enhancements with respect to Studio One interacting with NOTION . . .
The non-ReWire enhancements might be sufficient, but ReWire is very nice, so it depends on what you need to do . . .
Once the upgrade to Studio One 3 Professional downloads--which will take a while--I can do a few experiments and provide more information . . .
For reference, I think Digital Performer and Studio One are the easiest DAW applications to setup for ReWire with NOTION, but once you understand how ReWire works, the other DAW applications are not so difficult to configure . . .
However, with the exception of Digital Performer, all of them use surrogate tracks to interface with ReWire, so you have two tracks instead of just one. You can hide the surrogate tracks, so it's not a big deal . . .
[NOTE: This is the case with Studio One 2.6 Producer, but at present I am not certain if it also is the case with Studio One 3 Professional. And it's possible that the way I configure ReWire in Digital Performer so it doesn't need an auxiliary "helper" track to interface with ReWire is what causes the "1st beat, 1st measure rewind" bug, but so what. The Digital Performer user guide shows everything using auxiliary "helper" tracks to interface with ReWire, but there is another way to do it, although it's undocumented. The undocumented way is easier and faster, and it's the way I do it. My current hypothesis is that not using auxiliary "helper" or "surrogate" tracks in Digital Performer to interface with ReWire makes everything happen too rapidly when the "Rewind" transport button is used, and the consequence is that Digital Performer is on the 1st beat of the 1st measure but nobody else is, hence it gets no confirmation that everybody is at the same location and then behaves badly and crashes. In contrast, using a "marker" sends everybody a ReWire message to move to the "marker" and there is no confusion, but this is just an hypothesis. Doing an experiment with a "marker" set to the 1st beat of the 1st measure might be interesting, but it also happens if I use the NOTION transport "Rewind" button, so perhaps not . . . ]
The nice thing about ReWire is that once you have everything correctly configured and have saved "template" projects, it's very easy to create new projects and to be able to avoid needing to configure a bunch of stuff . . .
If you do everything step-by-step, it can take an hour or so to create and to configure a new DAW application and NOTION project for ReWire, but starting with a saved pair of "template" projects is faster and just takes a few minutes, which is the way I do it . . .
I have DAW application "template" projects that have 25 ReWire tracks and a handy number of MIDI tracks and audio tracks; and I do the same thing with various NOTION ensembles, hence starting a new song mostly is a matter of opening the respective "template" projects and then doing "Save As . . . " to clone them, which creates the actual project files for the new song in a few minutes and doesn't require switching into computer geek mode . . .
Lots of FUN!
P. S. There's a 25 percent discount on Studio One this month (June 2016), and I like discount sales!
Surf.Whammy wroteI wasn't so certain about the first attraction, so I did a bit of checking and decided to upgrade to Studio One 3 Professional, since there as you noted there are some enhancements with respect to Studio One interacting with NOTION . . .
To be honest Whammy, I'm not sure exactly what the "inter-application" benefits are between Studio One and Notion: I just sort of assumed that since they are made by the same company, they must work reasonably well together.
If you know of specific benefits, I would be interested to hear of them.
Surf.Whammy wrote Once the upgrade to Studio One 3 Professional downloads--which will take a while--I can do a few experiments and provide more information . . .
Thanks! I will look forward to reading it.
I use Notion and Studio 1 3 Artist (I'll get Pro later) all the time with awesome results. I think one of the nicer features is the capture feature of Notion to a Studio 1 file. It transfers tempo and time signature and all articulations and dynamics. I usually just make separate *.wav files for each staff and create my own song file and go from there.
I use Kontakt for a lot of my instruments and some of them are darn hard to control the dynamics on some of them. Studio 1 has Automation editing where I can control volume or softer tones using the built in effects. I can also use my controller to add other instruments and effects to new tracks to enhance sounds. There are a ton of videos on Youtube that explains many aspects of S1 and help one learn mix and mastering.
Here is a link to a load of videos to help with S1
jasonchildress wroteSurf.Whammy wroteI wasn't so certain about the first attraction, so I did a bit of checking and decided to upgrade to Studio One 3 Professional, since there as you noted there are some enhancements with respect to Studio One interacting with NOTION . . .
You can export the audio for the various instruments in a NOTION 5 score and then as a separate activity import the audio into Studio One 3, which causes Studio One 3 automagically to create tracks for each instrument . . .
This is what you get in the Studio One 3 project when you import the Presonus Capture Session that NOTION 5 created when you exported the audio from NOTION 5 with the aforementioned export option (see above) . . .
This is a nice feature, and it works . . .
The interapplication aspect occurs when you use Studio One 3 Professional and NOTION 5 in a ReWire session where Studio One is the ReWire host controller and NOTION 5 is the ReWire slave . . .
In this scenario the two applications interact and engage in interapplication activity, which for all practical purposes is like running NOTION 5 inside Studio One, although each has its own windows and so forth . . .
It's also similar to running a VSTi virtual instrumenet in NOTION 5, where most of the time the VSTi virtual instrument is there but not in the foreground but when you click on it in the NOTION 5 Mixer the VSTi virtual instrument engine appears and you can do stuff with the VSTi virtual instrument engine . . .
It's there, and it's integrated, but it's also separate in a way . . .
For ReWire, it's two separate applications running cooperatively, and the "cooperatively" aspect involves interapplication communication and control . . .
Lots of FUN!
kipcrawford wroteI use Notion and Studio 1 3 Artist (I'll get Pro later) all the time with awesome results. I think one of the nicer features is the capture feature of Notion to a Studio 1 file. It transfers tempo and time signature and all articulations and dynamics. I usually just make separate *.wav files for each staff and create my own song file and go from there.
Kip, you are just the person I need to talk to! It sounds like you're doing the same thing I'm doing...would it be okay if I ask you a question or two?
I usually just make separate *.wav files for each staff and create my own song file and go from there.
This is what I was envisioning as well. So you just import each .wav file into Studio One--do you do that with the "Import File" command from the Song menu?
I use Kontakt for a lot of my instruments and some of them are darn hard to control the dynamics on some of them.
I have had this same problem (Kontakt instruments not responding very well to Notion dynamics). I'm so glad to hear Studio One can compensate for that.
I would be interested to talk with you a bit more about this, would you be okay with my sending you a PM?
Thanks a lot Kip, you've already been a big help.
This is what I was envisioning as well. So you just import each .wav file into Studio One--do you do that with the "Import File" command from the Song menu?
Doesn't matter if I use the Notion Instruments or Kontakt Instruments or both I always do this once my score is complete or close with further edits in S1:
Non Capture method (courtesy of Surf Whammy )
I select each staff individually by selecting the staff then go to the EDIT menu and select "Select Part" Ctrl+Shift+A. Just that staff will highlight to a dark gray color. Now go to FILE and select "Export Audio". The Export Audio window pops up. Select your destination (I usually choose 16bit) then, this is important, export it as a Master! Very important. Click OK and change the name if desired. Repeat the process until all staffs are exported.
Next: I remember the Time/Tempo info and open S1. Select Create Song and just enter the BPM (Tempo) and Time Signature. In the new project window (In Professional you'd select New Project) it'll be blank. Go to Files (upper right FILES selection in the project window) and find the *.wav files and drag and drop them in the project work space and do your magic.
I have had this same problem (Kontakt instruments not responding very well to Notion dynamics).
This is where Custom rules come in. You can create rules for Dynamics to work. I do them all the time. The settings within the samples in Kontakt (Full version, not player) need to be set to read MIDI information in the modulator. Unfortunately, now we go into NI Kontakt country, and I don't really want to go into that in detail. There is info on Kontakt forums and Youtube that can help greatly. The good news is I have actually made songs with Notion with NO dynamics and edit each track to reflect the desired affect I needed. More work I realize, but it works. I do dabble with rewire, but I am no expert. Surf Whammy's explanation has actually helped also. So....we're kinda in the same boat.
On another note. Sometimes with Kontakt Instruments and using Capture I get a lot of "bad" recordings with clicks and pops and gaps. Sometimes re-capture fixes it and sometimes it doesn't.
kipcrawford wroteOn another note. Sometimes with Kontakt Instruments and using Capture I get a lot of "bad" recordings with clicks and pops and gaps. Sometimes re-capture fixes it and sometimes it doesn't.
You might experiment with these three things:
(1) Use the "Offline" option, which as best as I can determine does not have the computing restraints imposed by "Realtime" . . .
(2) Adjust the "Buffer size" option in NOTION Preferences before exporting Kontakt instruments, noting that you need to exit and then to restart NOTION for the "Buffer size" change to take place . . .
(3) Adjust the Kontakt core and memory size specifications, as well as consider using Kontakt's system memory feature . . .
[NOTE: I am not certain about the "instrument's preload size" value, so I guessed. This is another option that might benefit from doing some experiments, since "240.00 kB" looks a bit small . . . ]
These are the options I use for the engine in Kontakt Preferences . . .
In particular, I think the "perfect" option is very important, since it applies to offline computing, hence the strategy of using the "Offline" option for NOTION exporting, either with individual files or as a session capture, although whether this is what happens is another matter, but it appears to make sense, so I use the "perfect" option . . .
Generally when there are clicks and pops in NOTION generated audio (native or VSTi-sourced), it's a matter of system memory or sample rate, noting that you can and should set the sample rate for the Kontakt engine to match the sample rate for NOTION, which ideally will be 44.1-kHz but for video work should be 48-kHz . . .
I do everything on the Mac, and as a general rule I have the NOTION "Buffer size" set to "512 Samples", but there are times when I revert to the factory default ("256 Samples") or occasionally set it as high as "1,000 Samples" . . .
This is for a 2.8-GHz 8-core Mac Pro (Early 2008) with 32GB of system memory, and it's a slower machine now compared to new Mac computers, which generally maps to using smaller memory buffers, so what works here in the sound isolation studio might not work so well elsewhere when folks have faster computers . . .
It was superfast when it was new, but it's still peppy, although not like a new Mac . . .
One or more of these might provide a bit of help and if so, then it's worth doing the experiments . . .
Overall, I think this requires 16GB of system memory, at least to make it practical to engage the Kontakt system memory handler, and on the good side the Kontakt system memory handler only grabs the amount of system memory it actually needs, and it releases system memory when it doesn't need it . . .
Yet another thing that helps is to keep the total number of instruments per score smaller when doing final rendering, which I do by making clones of the original score and then reducing them to perhaps 10 instruments per clone, where for example if there are 50 instruments in the original score, at rendering time I split them into 5 scores with 10 instruments each, hence more computing and system memory resources available per score . . .
The goal is to get the highest quality audio, and i think this is more likely to happen with there are plenty of computing and system memory resources available . . .
On a new Mac Pro or iMac, this probably is not necessary, but it depends . . .
ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS ON VSTi VIRTUAL INSTRUMENT ENGINES
As you can see, there is a boatload of options for Kontakt 5, and this tends to be the case for all VSTI virtual instrument engines . . .
Nearly everything that's important is dependent on the computing and system memory resources of the particular machine, so it's unlikely that there's a specific set of universal values, although I think the default values probably are the most universal . . .
This makes doing some experiments potentially very helpful toward the goal of fine-tuning everything to the particular machine, operating system version, application versions, VSTi virtual instrument versions, and so forth . . .
Lots of FUN!
kipcrawford wroteDoesn't matter if I use the Notion Instruments or Kontakt Instruments or both I always do this once my score is complete or close with further edits in S1:
Thanks a lot Kip, this is just what I needed. Using this method I was able to transfer all 66 staves of my Notion piece into Studio One as individual tracks. The composition already sounds much better, just by virtue of not getting "crammed" through the narrow Notion mixer.
Generally when there are clicks and pops in NOTION generated audio (native or VSTi-sourced), it's a matter of system memory or sample rate
Unfortunately, as of now, I only have 8G of RAM. Most of the settings that were shown by Surf Whammy I already have set. One exception is the Kontakt Memory Server option. Probably because I am not using Professional version of S1.
The pops, clicks and gaps are an inconvenience at worst. I usually get this with my Kontakt Grandeur Piano. I did in fact notice that if I export all other staffs, dump out of Notion and reload the score and only export the Piano staff (after Kontakt has loaded the samples) I will not have the pops, clicks and gaps. Clean recording.
kipcrawford wroteGenerally when there are clicks and pops in NOTION generated audio (native or VSTi-sourced), it's a matter of system memory or sample rate
The NOTION 5 "Buffer size" setting in Preferences is another possibility, since if it's not set correctly there will be clicks and pops, as well as hesitation or skipping notes during playback . . .
Regarding the Kontakt 5 Memory Server option, you can set it by running Kontakt 5 as a standalone application. Once set, you can close the standalone version, and it will apply the next time you open a NOTION 5 score that has a Kontakt 5 VSTi virtual instrument . . .
I don't use the Kontakt 5 Memory Server all the time, but there are times when I use it . . .
Another strategy is to clone the NOTION 5 score and then in the cloned score delete everything except the Kontakt 5 instrument(s) . . .
If you are using Kontakt 5 instruments for everything, then delete all but the ones that are having clicks and pops . . .
I do everything in ReWire sessions, where I start with what I call a "basic rhythm section" which has perhaps 20 VSTi virtual instruments and is the framework or "sketch" for the song . . .
Once it's working nicely, I record the generated audio in a Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) application and clone the original NOTION 5 score via "Save As . . . ", where I then keep perhaps 5 instruments as common to all clones to serve as reference points for sections, phrases, tempo, and so forth, followed by deleting everything else, at which point I can add as many as 15 new instruments, depending on how "heavy" they are with respect to computing and system memory resources . . .
The drawback is that if I decide to change the structure of the song, I have to make changes to the original and all its clones, but for Pop songs this is not difficult to do . . .
If there are real instruments and singing in the DAW application, I can edit the audio clips so that everything aligns with whatever I decided to add, where for example I might decide to add a new verse, so I make the adjustments in the NOTION 5 clones and edit the real instrument and singing audio clips in the DAW application . . .
This works for me, and by keeping the total number of VSTi instruments small in each NOTION 5 cloned score, it maps to the highest quality audio for the virtual instruments . . .
My perspective is that it typically takes less time than it would if musicians and singers did the same things in a recording studio . . .
If it takes an hour or two to add a third verse or whatever, it's fine with me and overall I think it's faster to do it in the primarily virtual world . . .
As an example, I added a third verse to "Feel Me", and I did it by making space in the timeline and then inserting the new third verse between the existing second and last verse, so now it has four verses where the last verse is a repeat of the first verse . . .
It needed a third verse and the Aliens From Outer Space beamed the lyrics into the advanced communication chip they implanted in my brain, so everything was there . . .
[NOTE: If I didn't tell you that I added a new verse after the lead guitar solo, you would not be able to determine this solely by listening to the song. Essentially, it's like having a bit of FUN with magnetic tape splicing in the analog magnetic tape machine world, except that it's much easier to make it flawless . . . ]
It's sufficient for selling songs, which is fine with me, and the more I discover about producing the more likely it becomes that I will be able to create what one might "the sound" . . .
It's a great song, and someone famous--like Justin Beiber--should record it and make me a lot of money . . .
Each verse ends with a power phrase, and it's designed to be "hot" in a live performance for "dancing around" or whatever . . .
"I feel the beat of your heart"; "Our love is so deep"; and "My love, my everything" . . .
How can you beat that?
He needs a "Hound Dog" (Elvis), and this can do it for him . . .
Whistle the melody for Justin Beiber's signature hit song . . .
You can't, because he doesn't have one . . .
Lots of FUN!
i just posted a new thread about Notion 5 as a Rewire instrument in Studio One v3.2.3.
When i start Studio One with a score loaded in Notion 5, N5 crashes after a bar or so.
any thoughts on this?
As a general rule, when there is a problem in a ReWire session where a Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) application like Studio One 3 Professional is the ReWire host controller and NOTION 5 is a ReWire slave, it's a matter of something not being configured correctly . . .
This can include (a) both the DAW application and NOTION 5 not running in the same mode (typically 64-bit mode), (b) not having the same sample rate (both 44.1-kHz [standard CD quality] or both 48-kHz [video standard quality]), (c) not using the same bit depth, (d) not having the same buffer size, (e) not having optimal buffer sizes when they need to be different, and so forth . . .
The modes need to be the same, and the sample rates need to be the same . . .
The export bit depths typically are different, and internally the bit depths are increased either to 32-bit floating point or 64-bit floating point, where for reference what I call the "bit depth" is the scale used to represent values running from -1.0 to 0 to +1.0, where these are the magnitude of the each sample, so that for example when the sample rate is 44,100 samples per second (standard CD quality), each sample has a value in the range of -1.0 to +1.0 . . .
There are more possible values when the numbers are floating point than integer, but it's all good, so the specifics are more of a software and hardware engineering thing . . .
I do everything on the Mac, so I cannot provide much help in the Windows universe, but there are folks who do ReWire in the Windows universe with no problems and they might be able to provide some Windows-specific help . . .
There are practical limits, as well, and for example if you are trying to ReWire 100+ tracks, this probably is not going to work very well, but you cannot do this anyway, since the upper limit for NOTION 5 is 32 ReWire stereo pairs (or 64 monaural tracks, except that NOTION 5 does not do monaural tracks) . . .
For a variety of reasons--including the typically heavier resource footprints of some VSTi virtual instruments--I tend to construct songs in layers of 25 instruments at a time, getting each layer into the DAW application in a separate ReWire session, which works for me because I compose everything and do this in layers, and once a layer is composed I ReWire to the DAW application I use to produce the song . . .
I start with what I call a "basic rhythm section" and then clone it a few times, switching the VSTi virtual instruments until I have as many staves for VSTi virtual instruments as I need, which might map to 5 or more "clones", all kept in a common location (typically a subfolder) so that if I need to recreate everything I can do this easily . . .
Developing a system is important, and once you have everything working nicely you can create templates and shift focus more to composing songs than to messing with computer stuff
With native NOTION 5 instruments, you can work with a full orchestra in one NOTION 5 score, but this tends not to be the case when you are using VSTi virtual instruments with heavy resource footprints, hence the strategy of working with a set of layers, each layer having perhaps as many as 25 VSTi virtual instruments . . .
System memory is important, of course, but it looks like your Windows machine has plenty of system memory . . .
Account privileges in the Windows universe are a bit different, so this is another possibility, although not so likely since you can run the applications separately . . .
The audio card probably is one of the most likely culprits, and if it is, then it's just a matter of configuring it correctly . . .
As I recall, you will want to use ASIO and a proper driver for it, but since you have an external digital audio interface, you will want to ensure that it's driver is correct when you are using it . . .
Providing more information relevant to your Windows machine and associated software and hardware devices can help folks who do everything in the Windows universe make sense of whatever might be the problem . . .
And sometimes when something is incorrectly configured and this causes the ReWire system to become confused, the best recovery strategy is to do a cold or warm boot and then start over, all the while trying to discover what caused the problem . . .
Lots of FUN!
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