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Dear community,

After my last post on string libraries, I have shelled out quite a few £££ for some Spitfire stuff, since they had a spring sale earlier in April. I have never worked with Spitfire libraries before, but it has been an interesting experience, and I would like to share my experience with the community.

Their BML series (British Modular Library) includes two string libraries -- the Sable chamber strings (16 players) and the Mural symphonic strings (60 players). The Sable strings are so far more complete than the Mural strings, which are under development. In fact, they keep expanding and updating their libraries all the time, contrary to many other sample companies. The main Sable and Mural libraries are both multi-volume sets, with lots of articulations and techniques in each volume -- but both Sable and Mural are also available as one-volume ensemble packages, where you still have quite a few articulations available. The Sable Ensemble library thus comes with 15 different articulations,

The ensemble volumes are pre-panned according to a normal string setup, but you can still play around with four mic positions (close, Decca tree, ambient and outrigger). I have never been a great fan of ensemble libraries until now, but the Spitfire string ensembles are very fun and easy to use, and you can compose small strings pieces in no time. The Sable ensemble package is less than 30GB and, as a Kontakt library -- like all other Spitfire libraries -- it needs no USB key, so it is perfect for portable use. Here is what I instanstly sketched in Notion 5 after having installed the Sable ensemble (I have mixed three of the four included mic positions, no reverb or effects),

phpBB [audio]


There are many ways, in addition to keyswitching, to trigger the different articulations in the Spitfire Kontakt interface. In my setup I set the full ensemble nki -- which contains all articulations, mic positions and settings in one window -- to omni. Then you can, by way of an extremely easy setup process, send each articulation to its own midi channel, and -- voilà -- you can use the "shift + I" shortcut in Notion to place and change any articulation wherever you want on any staff. It is almost as easy as using the Notion palette. Dynamic markings and hairpins work separately in each midi channel, via CC16. You can also record dynamics manually via CC1 on sequencer staves, if you wish.

The full libraries work in the same way, but here you have to use more than one nki to get access to all the included articulations. You have separate sections, of course, and you do not only get a whole lot of useful articulations and techniques -- including great legatos, both bowed, fingered and portamento -- but also seven mic positions and three mixes by Jake Jackson. The sordini, which I focused on in my last post, are very smooth indeed, with a soft attack right out of the box. Below you can listen to the first few bars I made with the full Mural strings library (I haven't purchased the full Sable library yet). The sequence starts out with sordini, as you probably will notice. Because of the slow moving and spacious character of the music, I have added reverb from VSL MIR.

phpBB [audio]


All the Spitfire BML libraries are recorded in the same studio, with the same equipment, and with an orchestral setup, so they are all pre-panned and easy to use if you want an orchestral mix -- but they might not be quite so easy to combine with other libraries.

But to sum up, my first impressions -- as a Notion user -- of the Spitfire string libraries are very positive indeed. The interface and functionality is really made from a British no-nonsense perspective, and the libraries are the most functional VSTis I have used within Notion so far. I never enter my music by midi recording, but always directly as notation, and even if the Spitfire libraries are made from the point of view of playability -- that is what the two composer guys that started the company keep claiming -- they have a set of features that make them very handy for us notation-centric Notion guys as well.

If some of you are interested, I might record a short video where I demonstrate how I use the Spitfire strings in Notion.

Best regards,
Otto

Otto (Norway)

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by johnnewberry on Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:07 pm
Very, VERY nice!

Warm realistic legato, great sounding attack and release. Good size sections and use of microphones. Above all the sound is very clean . Not harsh at all.
    Thanks for sharing Otto.
,Newberry

:arrow:
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by DaddyO on Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:03 pm
If I had the money to begin to build a second library set, I'd go with Spitfire. I don't, so I stick with VSL Special Edition, but you can't go wrong with Spitfire. A quality company.

Hobbyist
Windows 10
VSL - VE Pro 7, VI Pro, MIR Pro, MIRx
VSL - VI Symphonic Cube Full, SpecEds 1-4 and PLUS
VSL - SY Strings Pro, SYzd Woodwinds, Solo Strings, SpecEds 1-4 and PLUS
Cubase 9.5, Dorico 3.5
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by michaelmyers1 on Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:31 pm
Very nice, Otto. Had I not been so heavily invested in VSL Dimension Strings I would have bought the Spitfire libraries. They're pretty pricey, but I love the sound. It's so... English, which is what I love in strings. Funny I bought German strings!

Beautiful sounds, looking forward to hearing more. I'd be especially interested in hearing more of the Sable series. I really like the idea of a smaller intimate library for strings.

Are you planning to make custom rules for the articulations, or to continue to use the matrix approach you mentioned?

Michael

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by ottomc on Fri May 01, 2015 5:52 am
johnnewberry wroteVery, VERY nice!
Warm realistic legato, great sounding attack and release. Good size sections and use of microphones. Above all the sound is very clean . Not harsh at all.
Thanks for sharing Otto.

Thanks a lot for listening and for your comment, John :D Appreciated!

DaddyO wroteIf I had the money to begin to build a second library set, I'd go with Spitfire. I don't, so I stick with VSL Special Edition, but you can't go wrong with Spitfire. A quality company.

michaelmyers1 wroteVery nice, Otto. Had I not been so heavily invested in VSL Dimension Strings I would have bought the Spitfire libraries. They're pretty pricey, but I love the sound.

Yes, the Spitfire libraries are definitely on the expensive side, but you get a substantial discount (25-30%) compared to buying single volumes if you purchase some of the pre-defined bundles. During the spring sale I even got a 41% discount. And they offer 30% educational discount on single volumes. Still, if you are heavily invested in libraries from one of the great contenders (VSL and the Berlin Series from Orchestral Tools probably being the closest competitors within the orchestral realm), there is no obvious reason to change your path...

michaelmyers1 wrote I love the sound. It's so... English, which is what I love in strings. Funny I bought German strings!

...unless the particular kind of sound that perhaps only the Spitfire libraries are able to produce is exactly what you have been looking for. I would think that the VSL samples are easier to manipulate in all kinds of manners, though, since they are completely dry. But myself, I will try to make my bank account grow a bit fatter for a while, and then -- possibly -- grab the full Sable strings the next time they are on offer.

michaelmyers1 wroteAre you planning to make custom rules for the articulations, or to continue to use the matrix approach you mentioned?

I beleive I will stick with the matrix approach, which is very functional.

Thanks to all of you for your feedback :D

Otto (Norway)

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by friedacornet1 on Wed May 20, 2015 6:38 am
Hello OttoMC,

It sounds great.
I have a question. I cannot get working the dynamics marking and hairpins. fff and pop nearly makes a difference in volume. Can you explain how I can fix that? I have Mural 1 and 2

Best regards Frieda
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by drumlogik808 on Sun May 24, 2015 10:08 pm
For strings, I actually really love the Miroslav Philharmonik stuff. Recently I picked up Cornucopia Strings from Strezov Sampling which sound really great and have a ton of 'vibe'. My next purchase will probably be their recently released Solo Strings or the Embertone Solo Strings (Violin, Viola, Cello).

Mac mini (Server, late 2012) 2.3 Ghz Intel Core i7 with 16 GB RAM, (2011) Macbook Pro 15" 2.3 Ghz Intel Core i7 with 16 GB RAM, Mac OS X Yosemite 10.10.4 & 10.10.3, Notion 5.1, Sibelius 7.5.1, Logic 10.1.1
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by ottomc on Mon May 25, 2015 2:08 pm
friedacornet1 wroteI cannot get working the dynamics marking and hairpins. fff and pop nearly makes a difference in volume. Can you explain how I can fix that? I have Mural 1 and 2

Hi Frieda,

Dynamic markings and hairpins should work. Can you see the expression slider (CC11) moving? It is located to the right in the Kontakt window. In the short video below you can see how the slider moves in the Vln 1 core palette window from pppp to mp and back again to pppp.

phpBB [video]


The dynamic markings (including hairpins) are written as such in the Notion score window. Four f's (ffff) -- which I have not used in this short sequence -- make the slider go all the way to the right, so by using the dynamic markings in Notion from pppp to ffff, you should be able to make use of the full dynamic potential of the Mural library.

Best regards,
Otto

Otto (Norway)

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by martinkutschker on Tue May 26, 2015 2:26 pm
michaelmyers1 wroteFunny I bought German strings!


No, you haven't. You have bought Austrian strings. Perhaps you should look up Vienna on a map ;)

Masi, who isn't a patriot, but who has to draw a line somewhere :)
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by michaelmyers1 on Tue May 26, 2015 7:12 pm
martinkutschker wrote
michaelmyers1 wroteFunny I bought German strings!


No, you haven't. You have bought Austrian strings. Perhaps you should look up Vienna on a map ;)

Masi, who isn't a patriot, but who has to draw a line somewhere :)


Touche. Point taken, Masi. I certainly do know that Vienna is in Austria. Not all Americans are totally ignorant of European geography. Though probably most are. :)

I was generalizing about the overall "Teutonic" feel of the products, not about the legal address of the manufacturer! ;)

iMac (Retina 5K 27", 2019) 3.6 ghz I9 8-core 64 gb RAM Fusion Drive
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by martinkutschker on Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 pm
michaelmyers1 wroteTouche. Point taken, Masi. I certainly do know that Vienna is in Austria.

What you perhaps do not know is the relationship between those two nations. As Germany has about 10x more inhabitants than Austria and plays leading role in Europe most Austrians suffer a mild inferiority complex. We can never beat Germany in football (soccer), but we have Mozart ;)

michaelmyers1 wroteI was generalizing about the overall "Teutonic" feel of the products, not about the legal address of the manufacturer! ;)


Don't use the word "teutonic" in Austria referring to anything but genuine German. Otherwise you are risiking your health :)

Anyway, do you refer to the UI which truly is rather straightforward or the sound of the strings? I only own the strings of the VSL SE, but what I specially like about them is they don't have the washy, artifically smoothed sound of cheap libraries.

Masi
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by michaelmyers1 on Wed May 27, 2015 7:14 pm
I'll keep that in mind!

I was talking about the overall "precision engineering" feel. The Vienna Instruments products are very crisp, clean, no nonsense, and work extremely well. The UI works beautifully (with a few exceptions that I would like to see for ease of use), the software is well written, the samples are extremely precise and everything just works nicely. All that, maybe, at the expense of some softer humanistic feeling that I hear in the Spitfire products.

iMac (Retina 5K 27", 2019) 3.6 ghz I9 8-core 64 gb RAM Fusion Drive
with small AOC monitor for additional display
macOS Sonoma 14.4
2 - 500 gb + 2 - 1 tb external SSD for sample libraries
M Audio AirHub audio interface
Nektar Panorama P1 control surface
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by jonathanfreese on Thu May 28, 2015 10:29 am
edit
Last edited by jonathanfreese on Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by friedacornet1 on Fri May 29, 2015 8:01 am
Dear Otto,

Thank you for your answer and the youtube film. I can see the Expression slider moves. So this works! But still I find the dynamic range not so great. In your review you describe:

"Dynamic markings and hairpins work separately in each midi channel, via CC16. " What do you mean by that?

What function has midi controller CC16?

Best regards,


Frieda
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by elerouxx on Sat May 30, 2015 10:02 am
I think the library sounds very, very beautifully. It will be highly instructive to see how you work with spitfire and Notion! Please make the video :)

Emilio Le Roux
Composer | Film Director
Win 10 i7 Desktop / Win 8.1 % Win 10 Surface Pro // Notion 6.3.454 64 bit
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by elerouxx on Sat May 30, 2015 3:21 pm
I agree about choose for libraries is a subjective matter of course. And, particularly speaking about strings, as they are some of the most expressive and colorful instruments, with almost infinite variances of articulation and timbre, some libraries apply better to a particular character in music than others.

That said, I think the Spitfire strings are about the most delightful sounds, and it seems they are also very versatile. I've been researching some of these libraries myself, listened to a lot of Berlin, Adagio, LASS and Spitfire samples.

Berlin strings are among the best. But somehow the Spitfire strings sound cleaner and yet as real as Berlin.

Maybe some crude personal appreciation - but I think the Berlin strings (as happens with the Hollywodd strings too) are extremely realistic, AND they have a faint veil of "record" sound on them. In some way this helps fooling the ears even more, not only sounding like real strings, but also sounding like they are coming from a Vinyl LP. I don't think this is bad, but it's just an observation on how clean Spitfire samples sound in comparison.


Now, I am pretty lost about who is who in the Spitfire products. I think they are too many packages and too many bundles to be sure what would I buy... (in a lottery-win event, probably).

Emilio Le Roux
Composer | Film Director
Win 10 i7 Desktop / Win 8.1 % Win 10 Surface Pro // Notion 6.3.454 64 bit
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by ottomc on Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:32 am
Sorry for not following up my post until now, but my college job kept eating up all my time at the end of the spring semester, and during my family vacation I had time for nothing else than vacation :D But finally I am back in the forum.

friedacornet1 wrote"Dynamic markings and hairpins work separately in each midi channel, via CC16. " What do you mean by that? What function has midi controller CC16?

It should have been CC11. Sorry for mistyping! CC11 is the continues controller usually called 'expression' (as I am sure you know), and it is used by Notion to transmit messages concerning dynamics to the VSTi, by translating dynamic score symbols (including hairpins) into midi values. In my experience, though, there are certain problems with some libraries (like EastWest's Play engine). But he Spitfire BML series seems to work without flaws.

friedacornet1 wroteBut still I find the dynamic range not so great.

Please have a look at the video that I am linking to at the end of this message. The last couple of minutes of the video is particularly meant to demonstrate the dynamic potential of the Notion/Mural combo.

elerouxx wroteIt will be highly instructive to see how you work with spitfire and Notion! Please make the video :)

Finally I have had time to make the video that I promised you in our Messenger conversation in May, Emilio! Please click below, and make sure to watch the video in 1080p full screen mode :D

phpBB [video]


Best regards,
Otto

Otto (Norway)

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32 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD
macOS Ventura
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by michaelmyers1 on Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:10 pm
Otto, very impressive, and thanks for the effort in the video. This confirms that the Spitfire string sound is gorgeous. Very heavy reverb sound though. Is that adjustable? The sound seems at sea in the hall.

Michael

iMac (Retina 5K 27", 2019) 3.6 ghz I9 8-core 64 gb RAM Fusion Drive
with small AOC monitor for additional display
macOS Sonoma 14.4
2 - 500 gb + 2 - 1 tb external SSD for sample libraries
M Audio AirHub audio interface
Nektar Panorama P1 control surface
Nektar Impact 49-key MIDI keyboard
Focal CMS40 near-field monitors
JBL LSR310S subwoofer
Notion 6/Notion Mobile + Studio One 6 Pro

http://www.tensivity.com
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by ottomc on Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:46 am
michaelmyers1 wroteVery heavy reverb sound though. Is that adjustable? l

In fact, I added some convolution reverb from Vienna Suite. Slow moving music, like all the sketches I included in the video, will not always suffer from spacious reverb settings -- and often requires a big space in order avoid that the music sounds dull and drops dead on the floor.

But on listening through my video, I agree that the convolution reverb that I have been using is somewhat overkill (that's not where I had my focus when I made the video), and below you will find a new version of the same dynamics demo that I inserted at the end my setup video. Here I use a mix of three of the five microphones sets included in the main mics setup of Mural — ambient, outriggers and Decca tree -- and what you hear is somehow a more "neutral" Mural sound (no external reverb added).

Speaking about spacious concert environments, I once performed a couple of Bruckner motets with a choir in the upper Basilica in Assisi (before the 1997 earthquake),

Image

and then I suddenly grasped the meaning of the incredibly long rests in this music. The sound kept hanging forever under the ceiling and between the walls. A musical taste of Paradise :D

Big orchestral strings, like Mural, can be placed in environments like this with a tremendous effect -- if the music is not moving fast and it is filled with rests that allow the music to spread out. That was how I conceived the pieces in the video, thinking of my experience in Assisi. But in a demo setting, this was probably not an ideal approach. So please have a listen to a more "neutral" version of the dynamics demo,

phpBB [video]


BTW, since I already mentioned my love of choral music, please allow me to point you to an interview that the guys over at Virharmonic made with me a while ago.

https://www.virharmonic.com/blog/choir%20VST

At the end of the interview there is a link to a tutorial I have made on how to set up the Voices & Soloists of Prague in Notion. I have probably posted a link to this video before in this forum, but perhaps there are some new users in here that would be interested in the tutorial.

Best regards,
Otto

Otto (Norway)

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by friedacornet1 on Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:27 am
Hi Otto,

Thank you so much for the video you posted. I am impressed about your composition and the dynamic range. The library sounds very good indeed.
Your way of working, the matrix approach is new for me. Interesting.

I tried to replicate what you did but I can not get - when clicking on an articulation in Kontakt-, the dialogue "activate latch" where you can choose your midichannel.
I was wondering what version you have of Mural Vol1 and Vol2? I found the update webpage of Spitfire but when I want to download the update I am going to a page that no longer exist. I send them an e-mail. It's by the way a bit hard to find the update page.

Do you have other compositions where you use Mural totally written in Notion? I like to hear.

Kind regards,

Frieda

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